Guest MattP Posted 16 July 2016 Posted 16 July 2016 Regardless of what happens next in Turkey this is a lesson in not to run a coup. Five mins on Google tells me there are 4 fibre optic cables connecting Turkey to the rest of the world and two 4G networks. The army should have seized and shut these down in first 20 minutes instead of pissing about with jet flybys. Same with Air Traffic Control. Clearly too many aging baby boomers running this plot, should have got some millennials in on it.
leicsmac Posted 16 July 2016 Posted 16 July 2016 Regardless of what happens next in Turkey this is a lesson in not to run a coup. Five mins on Google tells me there are 4 fibre optic cables connecting Turkey to the rest of the world and two 4G networks. The army should have seized and shut these down in first 20 minutes instead of pissing about with jet flybys. Same with Air Traffic Control. Clearly too many aging baby boomers running this plot, should have got some millennials in on it. Damn right. Oldies don't understand that taking over the tech is a key part of taking over the country. Though that being said, isn't seizing or destroying means of communication a key part of assuming control of an area in military doctrine? Amateurs.
Guest MattP Posted 16 July 2016 Posted 16 July 2016 Pretty much, they went for the newspaper office. Which in 2016 is ridiculous; allowed Erdogan to get his message out online.
leicsmac Posted 16 July 2016 Posted 16 July 2016 The more I hear about what happened and the sheer incompetence displayed, the less tinfoil hat and the more "well, maybe.." I think my theory above is. And the hilarious irony of Erdogan using platforms he has derided and tried to ban in the past in order to mobilise his followers and avoid being ousted is not lost on me either.
Guest MattP Posted 16 July 2016 Posted 16 July 2016 I gotta say, I'm starting to think the same. If it was a genuine coup attempt it was so badly planned I'm amazed Turkey has survived the conflicts it has been in over the last 30 years.
Thracian Posted 16 July 2016 Posted 16 July 2016 Given how well this coup has ran, viz. right into the ground, is there weight to the theory that either Erdogan orchestrated the whole thing as an excuse to consolidate his power base afterwards or just knew about it and let it happen (knowing it would fail) for exactly the same reason? /tinfoilhat It crossed my mind last night but as it was just a random, unsubstantiated thought, I didn't mention it. Something just didn't seem right.
bovril Posted 16 July 2016 Posted 16 July 2016 Friends in Istanbul tell me that the mosques were calling people to the streets. Erdogan's dictatorship is cemented.
Thracian Posted 16 July 2016 Posted 16 July 2016 Seems like Erdogan spoke the truth when he said: “The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers.” Erdogan has also told Turkish immigrants in Germany that “assimilation (the social process of absorbing one cultural group into harmony with another) is "a crime against humanity". I have long recognised the truth of the first quote and specifically drew attention to Erdogan's government-sponsored mosque building which is ongoing on a grand scale throughout Europe and elsewhere.....an incredible 17,000 "prayer sites" (of military citadels) since he came to power. How grateful he must have been to have his Turkish mosques calling supporters onto the streets to protect his legally elected government when a crisis arose. But how vulnerable those same facilities might make a country feel should "the faithful", or their leaders, oppose a government or new laws. It may surprise some but militarily, the use of mosques for storage of weapons and other strategic items seems perfectly acceptable in Islamic culture (see below where I've provided the link, but drawn attention to paragraph 3) . http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Terrorism/Pages/Hamas_use_mosques_for_military_purposes_March_2009.aspx ----- (3. The study also examines the religious and social roots of the use of mosques for military and political purposes. Senior Islamic clerics, both Sunni and Shi'ite (particularly the Sunni sheikh Yussuf Qardawi and the Shi'ite Ayatollah Khamenei), repeatedly claim that making such use of the mosques for jihad objectives is legitimate according to Islamic point of view. They also encourage their use for spreading jihad ideology and terrorism (muqawamah, i.e., "resistance") against the enemies of Islam. Their religious views are based on the Islamic oral traditions (hadiths) which say that the prophet Muhammad himself used a mosque for military and political purposes, beyond the classic use of the mosque as house of worship.) ------ What I didn't know was that such usage is already widely recognised. In France, Palestine, Lebanon and Tunisia, for instance, but why not anywhere else if thought necessary or advantageous? If you doubt my concerns just key in "Mosques used for storing weapons" and check examples uncovered including the size and extent of the arsenals found or implied. We're not just talking a few peashooters or fairground rifles with cork pellets! (Two out of various examples) http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=206305 https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/07/tunisia-police-find-weapons-in-40-mosques It appears that mosques may be as much "bases" for the advance of Islam as they are havens for spiritual peace through the piety of prayer. Again, as so often, I truly admire the all-encompassing strategy . But the West seems quite unconcerned. Indeed, by offering the outstretched hand of welcome and friendship, we seem to believe our values will eventually serve to impress our invited guests. Put simply.....they won't. Even if laced with any amount of kindness, concession or goodwill. And even if the young, pre-conditioned, Muslim mind was ever encouraged to be receptive to other philosophies (which it's not), they still wouldn't waver. Because, Islam is non-negotiable and that principle cements the Muslim outlook through life. Erdogan's second quoted, about assimilation - emphasised as much. And while I accept he has spirited opposition in Turkey from more moderate, secular Muslims who may genuinely wish to live in dominant but peaceful neighbourliness, they are not the kind who get to be national leaders in the broadly uncompromising, faith-serving world of Muslim power-politics. The Arab spring was supposed to herald freer, more moderate secularism across the Muslim world - rising as it did from that once, most relaxed, of Muslim countries, Tunisia. But as the months pass, I just don't see it and Tunisia is certainly no longer relaxed! . Instead, Erdogan could soon sit at the centre of an ever-strengthening and increasingly fundamentalist caliphate - with all the influence that will eventually exert, especially given its location. And that while many other Muslim countries simmer as cauldrons of unrest; while Western towns and cities here and across Europe are becoming progressively more Islamic in both flavour and acknowledgement; and while the wonderful architecture of Muslim mosques, and other prayer points, serve to mark the progress of Islam with ever more emphasis. . Today Erdogan has almost certainly taken another giant step towards his far-reaching caliphatic ambitions by having the golden opportunity to purge the army and legal profession of dissidents and having the legislative opportunity to strengthen his position in countless other ways. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara
Thracian Posted 17 July 2016 Posted 17 July 2016 Attempted coup arrests now top 6000 with Erdogan promising to purge the military. Already he has talked of restoring the death penalty.
Thracian Posted 18 July 2016 Posted 18 July 2016 I see they're still talking about Turkey joining the EU. I hope we come up against defenders like the EU this season. Their penchant for own goals would top Mahrez assists. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36829574
Thracian Posted 19 July 2016 Posted 19 July 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36838347 Looks to me like the most brazen de-secularisation plan in modern history. Strange how Erdogan seems to have such extensive lists of people to be arrested in such a short time and across such a wide plain. Military, judiciary and now education.....and all within days of an "attempted coup" that sounded too amateurish and too unlikely to be credible, let alone have any chance of succeeding.
martyn Posted 19 July 2016 Author Posted 19 July 2016 No conspiracy theorist by any means, but it really does stink of a false flag operation.
Dr The Singh Posted 19 July 2016 Posted 19 July 2016 4 hours ago, martyn said: No conspiracy theorist by any means, but it really does stink of a false flag operation. Agreed
Guest Mee-9 Posted 19 July 2016 Posted 19 July 2016 Someone told me last week to book a cheap holiday in Turkey. Its fair to say I took his advice on board and went Skegness for the day on Saturday...
Darkon84 Posted 20 July 2016 Posted 20 July 2016 Erdogan's an absolute nutcase, and even in Turkey, even though he's managed to brainwash huge masses of the people, it's pretty well known then he's orchestrated all this himself so he can finally get rid of ANYONE who's spoken out against him. For god's sake he's even arrested/sacked 15,000 teachers, deans of universities, and shut down hundreds of media outlets and companies. The arrests are rising rapidly, expected to top 50,000 and the feeling over there is not IF he brings back the death sentence, but WHEN. This man is seriously contemplating executing up to 50,000 people. Id say the comparisons (by some) to the Reichstag fire in 1933 are pretty spot on at the moment.
Christoph Posted 20 July 2016 Posted 20 July 2016 What they hell are they supposed to do with so many people they have arrested? You surely can't put that many people into prison O_O
Webbo Posted 20 July 2016 Posted 20 July 2016 1 minute ago, Christoph said: What they hell are they supposed to do with so many people they have arrested? You surely can't put that many people into prison O_O If you try to overthrow the govt that's treason, how can you not jail them? Whether all those arrested we're part of the plot or this is just a way of getting rid of the awkward squad I don't know.
Steven Posted 20 July 2016 Posted 20 July 2016 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: If you try to overthrow the govt that's treason, how can you not jail them? Whether all those arrested we're part of the plot or this is just a way of getting rid of the awkward squad I don't know. If 50,000 people were part of the plot; it is reasonable to assume that the news of it happening might have got out before it happened.
foxy boxing Posted 22 July 2016 Posted 22 July 2016 erdogan is nothing but a dictator who is taking more and more power for himself and that is why some in the Turkish military acted as they did, they clearly misread the situation thinking they could get ordinary turks on side but they were thoroughly wrong turkey is usually a secular state which has become more and more Islamic which European leaders think is extremely dangerous. turkey knows Europe needs its help dealing with the migrant crisis and will attempt to blackmail the eu to get what it wants which is ultimately eu membership
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