President Trump & the USA

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

Once again a certain poster has missed the point by a million miles.

Just explain to me what this is supposed to mean?

 

Quote

I am however genuinely concerned that none of you seem nearly as upset about this gross act of violence as you all are when it's a brown person driving a car into a crowd.

 

[Jimothy]

Just now, Webbo said:

Just explain to me what this is supposed to mean?

 

 

That when a brown guy does it there mass outcry, usually a thread opened within minutes. People calling for all people who happen to believe in the same god as that brown guy to rise up against him and do more to show their disapproval (even though they do) or it's proof that they secretly support his actions.

 

White guy does the same thing, not even a whisper of disapproval, nothing. Not co condemning his actions, no asking for people to do more. No dedicated topic of conversation. Nothing in 24 hours, not a word. In fact the same people who lambast Muslim for doing nothing are doing less themselves. Look at how Muslim leader react to these acts by Muslims compared to how Trump reacted to this.

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

That when a brown guy does it there mass outcry, usually a thread opened within minutes. People calling for all people who happen to believe in the same god as that brown guy to rise up against him and do more to show their disapproval (even though they do) or it's proof that they secretly support his actions.

 

White guy does the same thing, not even a whisper of disapproval, nothing. Not co condemning his actions, no asking for people to do more. No dedicated topic of conversation. Nothing in 24 hours, not a word. In fact the same people who lambast Muslim for doing nothing are doing less themselves. Look at how Muslim leader react to these acts by Muslims compared to how Trump reacted to this.

Why didn't you start a topic then? BTW I notice you haven't condemned this either?

[Jimothy]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

Why didn't you start a topic then?

I'm not one of those who calls out Muslims when ever there's a terrorist act. Certain right wing posters for example, shouldn't complain about Muslims doing nothing, but then do nothing themselves when the right commit a terrorist act. People shouldn't condemn Muslim leaders for not speaking out and then not condemn Trump for not speaking out. 

[Carl the Llama]

20 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You do this a lot Carl"I'm not saying all Brexiteers are racist but all Brexiteers are racist". Now it's" you shouldn't have to condemn this but the fact you haven't proves you approve".

 

I never get involved in these threads as a rule, school shootings, terrorists etc because it's a given that we all disapprove of murder. I'm not interested in competitive grief and anger.

Completely untrue.  I expressed concerns at our country's growing nationalist contingency during the brexit debates and expended a lot of effort to make it clear I wasn't ascribing those beliefs to all brexiters in direct response to the best efforts of yourself and others to derail the conversation with false indignation. I feel like I've explained this a thousand times now so the fact you're still claiming I said anything else is bordering on obsession.  I'm flattered, honestly, but I'm just not that into you Webs.  Still, I see you liked breadandcheese's comment about the ridiculousness of holding an entire societal group responsible for one minority subset of theirs, so I guess I can assume that you finally possess the cognitive tools to understand my concerns about rising nationalism without taking personal offence and will stop both putting words in my mouth and peppering your own political posts with blanket references to "the left" as though it's one cohesive uniform group of millions of people with the exact same set of political views and mannerisms.

 

With regards to what I've said in this thread:  Fortunately Facecloth did a markedly better job of reading the words I wrote and has saved me from explaining them on this occasion.

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Completely untrue.  I expressed concerns at our country's growing nationalist contingency during the brexit debates and expended a lot of effort to make it clear I wasn't ascribing those beliefs to all brexiters in direct response to the best efforts of yourself and others to derail the conversation with false indignation. I feel like I've explained this a thousand times now so the fact you're still claiming I said anything else is bordering on obsession.  I'm flattered, honestly, but I'm just not that into you Webs.  Still, I see you liked breadandcheese's comment about the ridiculousness of holding an entire societal group responsible for one minority subset of theirs, so I guess I can assume that you finally possess the cognitive tools to understand my concerns about rising nationalism without taking personal offence and will stop both putting words in my mouth and peppering your own political posts with blanket references to "the left" as though it's one cohesive uniform group of millions of people with the exact same set of political views and mannerisms.

 

With regards to what I've said in this thread:  Fortunately Facecloth did a markedly better job of reading the words I wrote and has saved me from explaining them on this occasion.

It's not completely untrue, you do do that whether you realise or not and it isn't false indignation either. Being accused of racism is offensive.

 

I could point out your lack of condemnation of the 100s of deaths in Venezuela or Corbyn's blaming of both sides, similar to what Trump has said regarding this incident. But I'm not interested.

[Jimothy]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

It's not completely untrue, you do do that whether you realise or not and it isn't false indignation either. Being accused of racism is offensive.

 

I could point out your lack of condemnation of the 100s of deaths in Venezuela or Corbyn's blaming of both sides, similar to what Trump has said regarding this incident. But I'm not interested.

Except he didn't, and made numerous posts pointing out how he wasn't doing that. You choose to either ignore it, or don't understand it for whatever reason that's your problem. In all you indignation about him falsley calling you a racist, you're actually falsley accusing him of something and becoming the very thing you bemoaning him of becoming. 

[Webbo]

Just now, Facecloth said:

Except he didn't, and made numerous posts pointing out how he wasn't doing that. You choose to either ignore it, or don't understand it for whatever reason that's your problem. In all you indignation about him falsley calling you a racist, you're actually falsley accusing him of something and becoming the very thing you bemoaning him of becoming. 

Carl is always doing it. "I'm not saying every brexiteers is racist but everyone I've ever met is". " I was listening to some typical racist brexiteers today, they're so thick" and stuff like that. Whether you believe it or not I don't really care.

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

It's not completely untrue, you do do that whether you realise or not and it isn't false indignation either. Being accused of racism is offensive.

Well it is, and I'm sure being accused of racism is terribly upsetting but if you think I've ever accused you of it it's only because you took personally a comment that wasn't aimed at you and which most likely contained a specific declaration to that effect for the benefit of everyone with conservative values, if not it most certainly followed soon after as a means of clarification.

7 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I could point out your lack of condemnation of the 100s of deaths in Venezuela or Corbyn's blaming of both sides, similar to what Trump has said regarding this incident. But I'm not interested.

You could and you did and you're right, I haven't.  Because I'm not responsible for those things and because they're topics I've not personally been involved in debates over.  But I'm not the one crying out that everybody from one religion is responsible for the actions of an extreme minority.  And no I'm not saying you are either, I think really we agree on the general sentiment behind this facet of blame slinging but you're too keen to disagree with me to see it.

[Jimothy]

Just now, Webbo said:

Carl is always doing it. "I'm not saying every brexiteers is racist but everyone I've ever met is". " I was listening to some typical racist brexiteers today, they're so thick" and stuff like that. Whether you believe it or not I don't really care.

I think you should go back and read those posts, he really doesn't. He mentioned a situation he was in, he didn't attribute that to all brexiters, he just pointed out that some brexiters are like that.

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Well it is, and I'm sure being accused of racism is terribly upsetting but if you think I've ever accused you of it it's only because you took personally a comment that wasn't aimed at you and which most likely contained a specific declaration to that effect for the benefit of everyone with conservative values, if not it most certainly followed soon after as a means of clarification.

You could and you did and you're right, I haven't.  Because I'm not responsible for those things and because they're topics I've not personally been involved in debates over.  But I'm not the one crying out that everybody from one religion is responsible for the actions of an extreme minority.  And no I'm not saying you are either, I think really we agree on the general sentiment behind this facet of blame slinging but you're too keen to disagree with me to see it.

I never took it personally but you are accusing vast swathes of people of being racist on nothing more than your own prejudice.

 

Most of us here are not American and none of us,I hope, have any connection to neo nazi groups and yet you think you have the right to demand condemnation from certain people when they're not involved either.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I never took it personally but you are accusing vast swathes of people of being racist on nothing more than your own prejudice.

 

Most of us here are not American and none of us,I hope, have any connection to neo nazi groups and yet you think you have the right to demand condemnation from certain people when they're not involved either.

1

Most of us here likely aren't Muslim, and hopefully don't have any connection to their brand of terrorist groups - and yet certain posters on here think they have the right to demand condemnation from certain people where they're not involved either.

 

I think that is the point being made all along - there is a double standard in play.

[Webbo]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Most of us here likely aren't Muslim, and hopefully don't have any connection to their brand of terrorist groups - and yet certain posters on here think they have the right to demand condemnation from certain people where they're not involved either.

 

I think that is the point being made all along - there is a double standard in play.

On all sides. 

[Jimothy]

Just now, Webbo said:

On all sides. 

Only seeing it from one side atm. 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

On all sides. 

I don't think that Carl was denying that. Rather just highlighting it and calling out those only too happy to speak out when there is an Islamic terror event but remain silent when a white supremacist kills.

 

Edit: And lest we forget, the silence about this goes as far as the White House, too.

[Webbo]

Just now, Facecloth said:

Only seeing it from one side atm. 

You've shocked me there.

[Jimothy]

Just now, Webbo said:

You've shocked me there.

Well the right wing posters are the ones happy to lambast one group for acts they didn't commit, whilst also happy to ignore acts perpetrated by those more aligned to their own beliefs, or shy away from condemning them, so yeah it's just the one side.

[Webbo]

Just now, Facecloth said:

Well the right wing posters are the ones happy to lambast one group for acts they didn't commit, whilst also happy to ignore acts perpetrated by those more aligned to their own beliefs, or shy away from condemning them, so yeah it's just the one side.

So why haven't you condemned this? What can we deduce from that?

[Jimothy]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

So why haven't you condemned this? What can we deduce from that?

I don't often post in any of the terrorist thread, like you said you didn't. But and I'll spell it out simply. CERTAIN. POSTERS. DO. Get it? You can't deduce anything from me not condemning this but you can deduce something from certain people who quickly condemn other things. Understand?

[Innovindil]

Now there's some proper outrage in this thread. Well done boys. 

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

I don't often post in any of the terrorist thread, like you said you didn't. But and I'll spell it out simply. CERTAIN. POSTERS. DO. Get it? You can't deduce anything from me not condemning this but you can deduce something from certain people who quickly condemn other things. Understand?

Can we stop with this certain posters crap? Just say who you mean.

[Carl the Llama]

13 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I never took it personally but you are accusing vast swathes of people of being racist on nothing more than your own prejudice.

 If you say so, far be it from me to carry on trying to prove otherwise.

13 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Most of us here are not American and none of us,I hope, have any connection to neo nazi groups and yet you think you have the right to demand condemnation from certain people when they're not involved either.

"I think really we agree on the general sentiment behind this facet of blame slinging but you're too keen to disagree with me to see it."   I was just holding a mirror up, I can't help that you're too intent on winning a vendetta against me to understand that.

 

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I don't think that Carl was denying that. Rather just highlighting it and calling out those only too happy to speak out when there is an Islamic terror event but remain silent when a white supremacist kills.

Tbf I will deny that a little bit because although I know that double standard exists on all sides in the real world, there isn't that same double standard from posters on here.  It's only the resident bigots (who Webbo seems intent on defending just to have a go at me) who genuinely believe that it makes sense to ascribe the behaviour of a minority to an entire section of society with slight existential similarities to them.

 

I mean come on Webs, how do you moderate this forum when you clearly can't read?

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

 If you say so, far be it from me to carry on trying to prove otherwise.

"I think really we agree on the general sentiment behind this facet of blame slinging but you're too keen to disagree with me to see it."   I was just holding a mirror up, I can't help that you're too intent on winning a vendetta against me to understand that.

 

Tbf I will deny that a little bit because although I know that double standard exists on all sides in the real world, there isn't that same double standard from posters on here.  It's only the resident bigots (who Webbo seems intent on defending just to have a go at me) who genuinely believe that it makes sense to ascribe the behaviour of a minority to an entire section of society with slight existential similarities to them.

 

I mean come on Webs, how do you moderate this forum when you clearly can't read?

I don't have a vendetta against you Carl.

 

Condemn people when they do something wrong, not for what you assume they think.

[Jimothy]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Can we stop with this certain posters crap? Just say who you mean.

Oh so now you understand but rather than just agree or leave it you have argue further and demand names. So keen are you to be right that even when you accept my point you still argue it 

 

Ok I'll give you one name at least. If this had been a Muslim attack MattP would have been over it like a fly on shit. There's three or four others who aren't quite of Mattp's level of fame on here who would too, and I could get the names if it wasn't quarter to 11 at night I was planning on some kip. 

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Oh so now you understand but rather than just agree or leave it you have argue further and demand names. So keen are you to be right that even when you accept my point you still argue it 

 

Ok I'll give you one name at least. If this had been a Muslim attack MattP would have been over it like a fly on shit. There's three or four others who aren't quite of Mattp's level of fame on here who would too, and I could get the names if it wasn't quarter to 11 at night I was planning on some kip. 

Don't kid yourself.