Webbo Posted 13 August 2017 Share Posted 13 August 2017 3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: The one in bold referencing the quote at the start of this exchange (I know he misused the word "previous" but it's obvious what he meant): As in he'd like to know your argument against the idea that anything can be inferred from certain posters with previous for indignation against an entire section of society within hours when this kind of event is perpetrated by Muslims choosing to remain silent now. You seem to be directly saying that you disagree with that notion when you said don't kid yourself. Has Matt posted at all this weekend? Do we know know if he's even read this thread? . It just seems like petty point scoring to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 13 August 2017 Share Posted 13 August 2017 1 minute ago, Webbo said: If it had happened in this country then it would have had a bigger response and as I said this thread tends to be just a series of "something bad's happened, it's all Trump's fault" which gets a bit tedious so it's probably not been noticed as much as if there had been a specific thread. Certainly could have merited a thread of its own - again, perhaps a difference between attitudes on here towards terrorist attacks from differing ideologies? I agree all of the bad stuff about Trump can get a little tedious, but he's not really doing much in the way of good stuff and given it might affect the UK it's perhaps worth debating, yes? Unless one is OK with what he's doing in which case it's better to say that than say nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 13 August 2017 Share Posted 13 August 2017 2 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Certainly could have merited a thread of its own - again, perhaps a difference between attitudes on here towards terrorist attacks from differing ideologies? I agree all of the bad stuff about Trump can get a little tedious, but he's not really doing much in the way of good stuff and given it might affect the UK it's perhaps worth debating, yes? Unless one is OK with what he's doing in which case it's better to say that than say nothing. It's this " if you're not offended by him you're for him" attitude that makes me avoid this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 13 August 2017 Share Posted 13 August 2017 1 minute ago, Webbo said: It's this " if you're not offended by him you're for him" attitude that makes me avoid this thread. Sorry, that was deliberate placement by me designed to evoke the manner that has been used on several threads on here involving terrorist attacks in the past, and again to highlight the double standard. We see a lot of "silence is tacit approval" arguments used on those threads - I don't personally believe it. Perhaps that was a bit naughty of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 13 August 2017 Share Posted 13 August 2017 I don't go in this thread often but then USA politics doesn't really interest me, it's not like I get any say in it. I'm neither here nor there with Trump, I find him hilariously idiotic. I think it's a bit of a stretch to finger point at people for not condemning this that would a 'Muslim attack'. I genuinely knew nothing of it, I get news headline notifications on my iPhone from the BBC and the telegraph and have seen nothing. There could be several reasons why he isn't here. Anyway, back to the events. I missed a few pages by replying early, what's the casualty list like? Have they caught the perpetrator? And is it in a state where capital punishment is in force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 13 August 2017 Share Posted 13 August 2017 Just now, Webbo said: Has Matt posted at all this weekend? Do we know know if he's even read this thread? . It just seems like petty point scoring to me. I'm guessing you're aware he's not been online since Friday but as much as he's taken flak for Islamophobic remarks in the past he wasn't actually in my thinking at the time of writing because a) I was addressing a general sentiment and b) I tend not to memorise specific posters anyway - heck I'm so bad at committing forum members to memory that I'll have big old arguments with a person in one thread then agree with them in another a few days later completely oblivious that they were the person I'd had an argument with. Only a select few posters achieve memory recall status in my even-toed ungulate brain so you should feel honoured to be counted amongst that small contingency. The people that my initial comment pertained to know who they are and are unlikely to identify themselves by responding now that I've said what I had to say but I can only hope the key point being made about personal/group responsibility in all of this has enlightened them somewhat. If you really want a list of names I suggest you go through some of our terrorism related threads and compile it for yourself, they're easy enough to find, I'm happy to hold a mirror up but I'm not going to make a gestapo-like list of all the people who've said bad things. 7 minutes ago, Strokes said: I don't go in this thread often but then USA politics doesn't really interest me, it's not like I get any say in it. I'm neither here nor there with Trump, I find him hilariously idiotic. I think it's a bit of a stretch to finger point at people for not condemning this that would a 'Muslim attack'. I genuinely knew nothing of it, I get news headline notifications on my iPhone from the BBC and the telegraph and have seen nothing. There could be several reasons why he isn't here. Anyway, back to the events. I missed a few pages by replying early, what's the casualty list like? Have they caught the perpetrator? And is it in a state where capital punishment is in force? He was caught on the day. Last I read it was 1 dead, 4 critical and something like 17 injured but I've seen a lot of people who aren't news sources saying 3 dead which I'm hoping is just hearsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross-Kemp Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 If there's a terrorist attack in the UK, of course I'd expect a new topic to be created, it's something which has / could / would affect us personally. This particular thread seems to be all things US of A. Just because a new topic hasn't been created, doesn't mean this absolute pathetic waste of air isn't a terrorist. Lets not be faux outraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Buce Posted 14 August 2017 Popular Post Share Posted 14 August 2017 It seems to me that everybody is missing the salient point. This is a thread about Trump, and the fact that he hasn't condemned the atrocity whilst being quick to condemn Islamic terrorism should be the topic under discussion, surely? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Floyd Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ross-Kemp said: If there's a terrorist attack in the UK, of course I'd expect a new topic to be created, it's something which has / could / would affect us personally. This particular thread seems to be all things US of A. Just because a new topic hasn't been created, doesn't mean this absolute pathetic waste of air isn't a terrorist. Lets not be faux outraged. This. Of course when something is closer to home it's going to cause an inflated response, there will be some on the forum who rightly or wrongly have no idea about the horrific events in Chartlottesville. I also take issue with the fact that some are trying to turn this into a moral battleground when they're guilty of the things they're so desperate to accuse others of. I don't recall any opprobrium of the events regarding Operation Sanctuary on this forum, should we read more into that? Edited 14 August 2017 by The Floyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 3 hours ago, Buce said: It seems to me that everybody is missing the salient point. This is a thread about Trump, and the fact that he hasn't condemned the atrocity whilst being quick to condemn Islamic terrorism should be the topic under discussion, surely? To be perfectly fair, yes. I was just making a quick point about the inconsistent level of outrage this has received then got sucked into having to repeatedly explain basic concepts. Anybody saying it's only because it happened further afield, while that may be true for them personally they're kidding themselves if they think it's the whole explanation. Social divide is growing on all fronts: These days you can't turn around without seeing man-hating 'feminists', overtly anti-Caucasian racists (who will probably try telling you it's impossible for them to be racist because they're not white), LGBTQExpialiocious anti-straight fascists, or the until recently impotent anger of straight white males in response to all of the above. All of them thinking (or claiming) they're fighting for fairness and equality for their people, all of them completely missing the hypocrisy that their way of achieving it is by repressing other people's thoughts through violent, vitriolic protests, online harassment campaigns and peddling straight up propaganda (just the other day I saw a video online about the 'gender wage gap' where they got a black woman and a white man with similar jobs in different companies to reveal their income... the black girl was earning $20k more and from what she said clearly came from a privileged background but she still thought it made sense to spend the rest of the video complaining about how she had a way more difficult life than the white guy who just sat there nodding and virtue signalling). It just so happens that recent events highlight one of those groups as being the most violent (unless anybody can give me an example of the other mentioned groups going around in intimidating outfits and killing the people who disagree with them) and a certain political leader is doing nothing to dissuade them. Sad. So I can understand the bewilderment of the neo-nazi cvnts who have to live in a world where they no longer have all the advantages of being the only enfranchised citizens but still get told that they have to take the blame for history and give everybody else special dispensation in the name of equality even though most of them are amongst the poorest members of society themselves and struggling to make ends meet as they get told life's alright for them because they have white male privilege. I really do get it. Fvcking hell it's a reality I live myself whenever my wealthy doctor sister who was given a ton more support growing up than me has the gall to tell me that she's the one treated unfairly in society even though we are the perfect example that anti-female discrimination isn't a major thing anymore, if anything the scales have tipped slightly the other way... but I'm not going to go out in riot gear and look for a fight over it. At the end of the day you can empathise with a person's views until the cows go home but if they're going to use violence to make their point then they'll get the zero sympathy they have for their victims from me. If you want the respect of a decent individual fvcking act like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 Oh just to clarify I'm not agreeing with white supremacist thinking at all in case that's the impression anybody gets. I think all of the groups mentioned have valid points in one way or another but they all need to get over themselves, sit down, and learn to get along with other humans instead of perpetuating this trend of dividing everyone into their own safe spaces where it's ok to speak hatefully of the other groups and entrench the growing resentment between all sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 If they'd have just stuck up a statue of Martin Luther King in the same park, none of this would have happened and no-one would have been offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 36 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said: If they'd have just stuck up a statue of Martin Luther King in the same park, none of this would have happened and no-one would have been offended. Might have delayed it but let's face it, the statue was just an ulterior motive. Not the biggest fan of John Oliver, like many liberal media personalities he can come off as nauseatingly arrogant at times but this is nail on head stuff: The bit about the fairies in OOT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 7 hours ago, Buce said: It seems to me that everybody is missing the salient point. This is a thread about Trump, and the fact that he hasn't condemned the atrocity whilst being quick to condemn Islamic terrorism should be the topic under discussion, surely? Yeah. It would be nice to have some discussion about this. What do people think of Trump studiously avoiding the point in this manner? 6 hours ago, The Floyd said: This. Of course when something is closer to home it's going to cause an inflated response, there will be some on the forum who rightly or wrongly have no idea about the horrific events in Chartlottesville. I also take issue with the fact that some are trying to turn this into a moral battleground when they're guilty of the things they're so desperate to accuse others of. I don't recall any opprobrium of the events regarding Operation Sanctuary on this forum, should we read more into that? Fair...however other events have happened around the world and not in the UK (Paris and Sydney spring to mind) where there have been terrorist events that have sparked reams of posts in this forum. How, exactly, is this different from that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 Well shit it looks like Sargon of Akkad has pretty much nailed the point I was getting at earlier about different hate groups causing this rising white anger. If you have half an hour to spare or if you want something playing in the background I'd recommend giving this a watch/listen. Obviously I disagree with him on the Trump point - yes it's correct to malign the hate from all parties as a general rule but in the immediate aftermath of an incident where one group showed up with riot gear and committed vehicular manslaughter they must be singled out for their atrocious behaviour. The rest is all very salient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Floyd Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 59 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Fair...however other events have happened around the world and not in the UK (Paris and Sydney spring to mind) where there have been terrorist events that have sparked reams of posts in this forum. How, exactly, is this different from that? Which specific attacks are you citing? I've avoided General Chat recently but as far as I can tell there's been little, if any, response to the most recent Paris attack and the foiled Sydney plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 3 minutes ago, The Floyd said: Which specific attacks are you citing? I've avoided General Chat recently but as far as I can tell there's been little, if any, response to the most recent Paris attack and the foiled Sydney plot. Apologies for my lack of clarity there. I was referring to the various Paris attacks (including the Charlie Hebdo assault and the larger one last year) and the Sydney cafe crisis a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 Oh, and though it need not really be said, allow me to reiterate the attitudes of most people involved in that rally towards the death of a woman (as well as the one who killed her) by showing this fine piece of journalism from their mouthpiece. Probably shouldn't give it the clicks, but I think it needs highlighting. https://www.dailystormer.com/heather-heyer-woman-killed-in-road-rage-incident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Floyd Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 Just now, leicsmac said: Apologies for my lack of clarity there. I was referring to the various Paris attacks (including the Charlie Hebdo assault and the larger one last year) and the Sydney cafe crisis a while back. Fair enough. I don't believe I was around on the forum for either attack so I'm not sure I can comment. Would you not agree that there seems to have been a decline in response to all recent attacks though? Seems odd to ridicule a section of posters for not condemning this particular attack when a fair few other incidents have passed by without comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 4 minutes ago, The Floyd said: Fair enough. I don't believe I was around on the forum for either attack so I'm not sure I can comment. Would you not agree that there seems to have been a decline in response to all recent attacks though? Seems odd to ridicule a section of posters for not condemning this particular attack when a fair few other incidents have passed by without comment. Hmmm...perhaps. I'm still of the opinion that attacks by specific demographics do often tend to get more interest here than ones by others, though - though I think it often depends on which part of the world they occur. (Something else springs to mind too - when Dylan Roof did his little rampage, there wasn't a separate article for that either.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bovril Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 9 minutes ago, The Floyd said: Fair enough. I don't believe I was around on the forum for either attack so I'm not sure I can comment. Would you not agree that there seems to have been a decline in response to all recent attacks though? Seems odd to ridicule a section of posters for not condemning this particular attack when a fair few other incidents have passed by without comment. So, Mr Floyd, where were you exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 4 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Hmmm...perhaps. I'm still of the opinion that attacks by specific demographics do often tend to get more interest here than ones by others, though - though I think it often depends on which part of the world they occur. (Something else springs to mind too - when Dylan Roof did his little rampage, there wasn't a separate article for that either.) You can always start these threads yourself if you think they're worthy of comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 19 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Oh, and though it need not really be said, allow me to reiterate the attitudes of most people involved in that rally towards the death of a woman (as well as the one who killed her) by showing this fine piece of journalism from their mouthpiece. Probably shouldn't give it the clicks, but I think it needs highlighting. https://www.dailystormer.com/heather-heyer-woman-killed-in-road-rage-incident-was-a-fat-childless-32-year-old-slut/ There's no way that's real, has to be a parody in poor taste, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: You can always start these threads yourself if you think they're worthy of comment. I could indeed. Perhaps the next time white supremacists get stuck in, I will. Just now, Carl the Llama said: There's no way that's real, has to be a parody in poor taste, surely? If you have the stomach to look through more of the site, I'm inclined to think it sadly isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 14 August 2017 Share Posted 14 August 2017 Just now, leicsmac said: If you have the stomach to look through more of the site, I'm inclined to think it sadly isn't. Yeah I was just hoping that by saying that it might become true. Utterly obscene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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