England's biggest clubs; the definitive list

[VIKTOR-LE5]

1 minute ago, Koke said:

In the Premier League clubs by size, this is just my opinion.

 

Manchester United 

Liverpool 

Arsenal 

Chelsea 

Everton 

Tottenham 

Manchester City

Sunderland 

West Ham

West Brom

Leicester City

Burnley

Middlesbrough

Southampton 

Stoke City 

Watford 

Crystal Palace 

Swansea City

Hull City

Bournemouth 

 

Some of these clubs are neck and neck lime Stoke and Southampton as well as Tottenham and Everton, and even West Brom and Leicester.

Leicester are bigger then WBA.

[Koke]

Huddersfield got 3 league titles + 1 FA Cup. Are they bigger than us? Not in a million years. Huddersfield are a small club. 

 

I respect clubs with a history like Huddersfield and Preston but they are small clubs. 

[Koke]

3 minutes ago, VIKTOR-LE5 said:

Leicester are bigger then WBA.

 

I think we're the same size.  

[Ted Maul]

3 minutes ago, 4everfox said:

Yeah there's some crazy ones like West Brom averaging nearly 39k, Bolton nearly 36k, Wolves over 45k, Burnley over 33k, Coventry nearly 35k, Portsmouth 37k, Notts County 35k, Fulham 33k, Cardiff nearly 38k, Watford only 19k, Brentford nearly 26k, Bournemouth not even 17k, Millwall over 27k and Sunderland nearly 48k what's that about? Might take off half of those due to them leaving at half time every week. 

 

I've just checked and they'd be 19th on 381 points going by my original formula and it would put them just behind us in 27th on 424 points in my first updated table

 

Maybe scale down the average attendance score? 0.1% instead? In the current system, an extra thousand on the attendance is worth a league title haha! It's a bit disproportionate. 

[4everfox]

18 minutes ago, murphy said:

The list looks about right to me.  I remember seeing a similar list based on trophies won and we were about 24.  God knows where we would have been pre 1997 though.

 

How come Boro are ahead of us though?  1 league cup in their whole history.

 

Middlesbrough:

 

- 61 points for seasons spent in top flight

- 15 points for league wins

- 3 points for cup wins

- 361 points for average attendance record

 

Leicester:

 

- 50 points for seasons spent in top flight

- 46 points for league wins

- 16 points for cup wins

- 316 points for our average attendance record

- 1 point for qualifying for the Champions League

[VIKTOR-LE5]

Just now, Koke said:

 

I think we're the same size.  

I think we've over taken alot of these clubs who were similar size to us, like WBA, Forest, Wolves, Derby, etc. As for winning trophies in the past Everton have won alot more trophies  then Chelsea, but Chelsea are now close to being, or are a super club while Everton are around Leicester size.

[VIKTOR-LE5]

Basically you're as big as your owners ambitions are.

[4everfox]

11 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Not surprising. Blackburn have a wonderful history. Their FA Cup record is ridiculous.

 

Premier League/Division One 3 times

FA Cup 6 times

League Cup 1 time

72 of their 129 year existence spent in the top flight

They have a smaller average attendance record than us as well so they are placed so high thanks to how successful they have been

 

[coolcol]

15 hours ago, 4everfox said:

I've been off work recently recovering from a slipped disc which has obviously been very boring and lonely so today I decided I would pass a bit of time trying to answer the mother of all questions: who is the biggest football club in England and where do Leicester rank? I thought I'd share the results. 

 

Driven by boredom and curiosity I came up with a formula and began to do my research. My formula is as follows:

 

- Eligible clubs must have played at least one season in the English top flight and the club must still exist. 

- One point to be awarded for every season played in the top flight

- One point deducted for every season spent out of the top flight

- Ten points for every top flight title

- Three points for every English second tier title

- One point for a Division Three/League One or Division Four/League Two title

- Ten points for every European Cup/Champions League title

- Five points for every FA Cup or UEFA Cup/Europa League title

- Three points for every League Cup win

- One point for every Community Shield, Super Cup or Football League Trophy win

- Anything won in more recent and relevant history is awarded double points, in this case anything won in the last twenty five years or since 1992

- 1% of a clubs highest average attendance recorded over the course of a season is awarded in points

- One point is awarded for every season where the club has qualified for the European Cup/Champions League

 

Here is the sixty team list I compiled based on who was eligible if you are interested, the results are quite surprising:

 

Pos_________________________Points

1 - Manchester United_______1380

2 - Arsenal__________________983

3 - Liverpool_________________947

4 - Chelsea__________________790

5 - Everton__________________762

6 - Tottenham Hotspur______699

7 - Aston Villa_______________698

8 - Newcastle United________696

9 - Manchester City_________666

10 - Sunderland_____________619

11 - Wolves_________________531

12 - Sheffield Wednesday___488

13 - West Brom_____________472

14 - Leeds United___________454

15 - Blackburn Rovers_______412

16 - Bolton Wanderers______ 410

17 - Derby County___________401

18 - Birmingham City________392

19 - Nottingham Forest______380

20 - West Ham United________378

21 - Sheffield United_________376

22 - Middlesbrough__________372

23 - Charlton Athletic_________365

24 - Portsmouth_____________362

25 - Burnley__________________355

26 - LEICESTER CITY_________350

27 - Preston North End_______338

28 - Stoke City_______________318

29 - Cardiff City______________318

30 - Notts County____________310

31 - Huddersfield Town______309

32 - Coventry City____________296

33 - Hull City_________________281

34 - Southampton____________275

35 - Fulham__________________273

36 - Norwich City_____________251

37 - Crystal Palace___________243

38 - Ipswich Town____________232

39 - Blackpool________________210

40 - Brighton & Hove Albion___183

41 - Bristol City_______________180

42 - Queens Park Rangers____179

43 - Swansea City____________161

44 - Millwall__________________161

45 - Brentford________________158

46 - Wigan Athletic___________154

47 - Bradford City____________154

48 - Reading_________________142

49 - Luton Town_____________136

50 - Bury____________________136

51 - Barnsley________________102

52 - Watford_________________98

53 - Oldham Athletic_________94

54 - Swindon Town__________91

55 - Northampton Town______82

56 - Bournemouth____________72

57 - Grimsby Town___________62

58 - Leyton Orient____________59

59 - Carlisle United___________53

60 - Oxford United____________16

 

(teams tied on points were decided by whoever had been more successful since 1992)

 

The big surprises for me were Arsenal being above Liverpool, largely thanks to there highest average attendance of around 60,000. Take this away from everyone and they slip to third. Also Sunderland, West Brom, Bolton surprised and particularly Charlton Athletic who's highest average attendance was again the main reason, in a table where this highest average attendance statistic isn't included they slip from 23rd to 31st. Burnley and Portsmouth too, what's that about? Why are they above Leicester? The answer is the attendance stat again. Take this away from the equation and we go in front of them both to 19th from 26th. Put the attendance stat back in and give us an average attendance of 40,000 over the course of a season and we would leap past Forest and Derby to 15th on 436 points.

 

Alternative table which leaves out the highest average attendance statistic and bases the table on success alone is available on request. 

 

Whaowww.... you did have a lot of spare time on your hands

[4everfox]

5 minutes ago, VIKTOR-LE5 said:

I think we've over taken alot of these clubs who were similar size to us, like WBA, Forest, Wolves, Derby, etc. As for winning trophies in the past Everton have won alot more trophies  then Chelsea, but Chelsea are now close to being, or are a super club while Everton are around Leicester size.

Everton are a far bigger club then Leicester I'm afraid

[VIKTOR-LE5]

2 minutes ago, 4everfox said:

Everton are a far bigger club then Leicester I'm afraid

Are they puck.

[4everfox]

Just now, VIKTOR-LE5 said:

Are they puck.

9 time Champions of England 

5 time FA Cup winners

1 time Cup Winners Cup Champions 

63 consecutive seasons in the top flight

 

Yeah. They are. 

[VIKTOR-LE5]

54 minutes ago, 4everfox said:

9 time Champions of England 

5 time FA Cup winners

1 time Cup Winners Cup Champions 

63 consecutive seasons in the top flight

 

Yeah. They are. 

By that logic they're bigger then Chelsea.

[4everfox]

6 minutes ago, VIKTOR-LE5 said:

By that logic they're bigger then Chelsea.

5 time Champions of England 

7 time FA Cup winners

5 time League Cup winners

1 time Champions League winners

1 time Europa League winners

2 time Cup Winners Cup Champions 

 

Not really... 

[HighPeakFox]

Size obsession much?

[simFox]

It's a table of historical success, not a measure of size.

 

You can only measure size as of the here and now, not how you were 50 years ago.

 

It's interesting though.

 

Attendance and fan base is a funny one. I can well understand the Sunderland attendance being so high, because the furthest mackems get from Sunderland is the county border and that's only just to reach over and nick something.

[murphy]

18 minutes ago, Ian996 said:

It's a table of historical success, not a measure of size.

 

You can only measure size as of the here and now, not how you were 50 years ago.

 

It's interesting though.

 

Attendance and fan base is a funny one. I can well understand the Sunderland attendance being so high, because the furthest mackems get from Sunderland is the county border and that's only just to reach over and nick something.

No, it is size.  

 

Hence Boro are bigger than us mainly due to average crowds but only 1 league cup compared to our 3 league cups, prem title and charity shield.

 

We'd be ahead of them in a table of success.

[The_77]

Very interesting. These rankings would make a Newcastle or Villa fan weep for what's happened recently.

 

Should a 2nd division title count more than a Champions League spot?

[4everfox]

6 minutes ago, The_77 said:

Very interesting. These rankings would make a Newcastle or Villa fan weep for what's happened recently.

 

Should a 2nd division title count more than a Champions League spot?

I had thought about this and I decided that when you win the Championship, which is in no way easy you are the Champions of something with a trophy to prove it. I didn't want to award more points for something that didn't result in a trophy. 

[VIKTOR-LE5]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

No, it is size.  

 

Hence Boro are bigger than us mainly due to average crowds but only 1 league cup compared to our 3 league cups, prem title and charity shield.

 

We'd be ahead of them in a table of success.

You having a laugh right.

[Corky]

For a definitive list this is creating quite a discussion. Which proves there is no definitive lost, things change all the time and throughout time and you'll always vary facts and statistics to suit your own argument.

[VIKTOR-LE5]

The reason Leicester City will remain a small tinpot club in other supporters  minds, is when your own fans think the likes of WBA, Middlesbrough and there ilk are bigger the us.

[ceredigion]

It's interesting, but I find the methodology a bit too arbitrary for my liking in terms of the points awarded for various achievements. I'd have thought that winning the League Cup for instance should garner a club more credit that winning the old Division Four title, but in this method it's the same.

 

Also, clubs like Preston, Blackburn, Sunderland and even Aston Villa had their great periods of success in the early years of football, when the league was much smaller than it became after WWI and contained teams like Darwen, Ardwick, Burton Swifts and Bootle before the clubs of the big cities had started.

 

Huddersfield Town should have a great shout though. The Football League expanded to 4 divisions from the 1919/20 season onwards and all the big clubs existed by then. Between 1920 and 1930 they won the First Division 3 years running in 1924, 1925 and 1926, were Runners-Up in 1927 and 1928 and finished 3rd in 1923. They also won the FA Cup in 1922 and were finalists in 1920 and 1928. But there was no League Cup or European football during their heyday.

[Sir Shep]

Can of worms opened here me thinks! When I was at school during the 80's, the big six were considered to be,

Man  U

Liverpool

Spurs

Arsenal

Everton

Villa

 

Teams like Chelsea, Leeds and Newcastle were up and down although certainly well supported clubs. Man City are also well supported but only win because they are minted! 

 

Then theres the freeloaders in East London, West Haaaaam, the 2 Sheffield clubs and Sunderland who seem to have a lot of support considering how small the city is!

 

Then there's what I consider the clutch of midland clubs, the mighty champions Leicester, Forest, Derby, Wolves, WBA. 

 

No no other team I'd consider better supported than us that I haven't mentioned. History is irrelevant in my opinion!!! 

[VIKTOR-LE5]

Sunderland a funny one, a pretty big support for a small town, my theory probably down to there's fvck all else to do there and the population mainly white.