Shots Fired Outside House of Commons

[Thracian]

12 hours ago, Rincewind said:

He had an history of violence according to the 12 page exclusive in the Sun. He may have woke up and thouhjt sod this I'm fed up of being pointed at and being accused of being a terrorist. I'll make someone pay for it.

 

 

And to think there are people who'd defend that comment on here,  

[Thracian]

12 hours ago, bovril said:

Well technically he's correct. If he was born while his Mum was on holiday for example. Or working temporarily in the UK.

However this guy's about as British as it gets, from what I've read.

Unquestionably British from what  I've read too but seemingly violently unstable to the point where it's questionable whether he should have been on the streets at all and might well have been confined to some sort of institution in the days when places like the Towers existed.

 

The dangers he presented are clear from his background yet today's society avoids taking responsibility and actually devises laws which enable them to justify that attitutde.

 

The problems seem clear enough just reading the comments of excusers, avoiders and apologists on here you can see that even our education system has seemingly brainwashed people into a state of mind when they either refuse to see the evil in anyone, refuse to see the potential long term threat those people represent or don't have the will to deal with it.

 

Even victims talk about forgiveness and to hell with the next group of schoolkids or strolling holidaymakers who suffer as a result.  

[Parafox]

2 hours ago, Thracian said:

Unquestionably British from what  I've read too but seemingly violently unstable to the point where it's questionable whether he should have been on the streets at all and might well have been confined to some sort of institution in the days when places like the Towers existed.

 

The dangers he presented are clear from his background yet today's society avoids taking responsibility and actually devises laws which enable them to justify that attitutde.

 

The problems seem clear enough just reading the comments of excusers, avoiders and apologists on here you can see that even our education system has seemingly brainwashed people into a state of mind when they either refuse to see the evil in anyone, refuse to see the potential long term threat those people represent or don't have the will to deal with it.

 

Even victims talk about forgiveness and to hell with the next group of schoolkids or strolling holidaymakers who suffer as a result.  

[Rincewind]

1. I was not defending or aking excuses for his actions. But it is obvious he had mental issues. Knowledge in that field has advanced since the days of Bedlam institutions.and the 'get over it' attitudes  With the right care his condition could have been controlled but that requires funding in social care and governments whoever is in seem to prefer the cure rather than the prevention route. Todays world is a lot ore stressful with more pressures. Just because one person sitting behind a desk in Westminster can cope does not mean a family trying to bring up a young faily on low to mid income can do likewise when juggling bills and mortgages.

[Carl the Llama]

7 hours ago, Thracian said:

Unquestionably British from what  I've read too but seemingly violently unstable to the point where it's questionable whether he should have been on the streets at all and might well have been confined to some sort of institution in the days when places like the Towers existed.

 

The dangers he presented are clear from his background yet today's society avoids taking responsibility and actually devises laws which enable them to justify that attitutde.

 

The problems seem clear enough just reading the comments of excusers, avoiders and apologists on here you can see that even our education system has seemingly brainwashed people into a state of mind when they either refuse to see the evil in anyone, refuse to see the potential long term threat those people represent or don't have the will to deal with it.

 

Even victims talk about forgiveness and to hell with the next group of schoolkids or strolling holidaymakers who suffer as a result.  

So is it a bad thing to live in a society which believes in giving people a second chance?

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, Thracian said:

Unquestionably British from what  I've read too but seemingly violently unstable to the point where it's questionable whether he should have been on the streets at all and might well have been confined to some sort of institution in the days when places like the Towers existed.

 

The dangers he presented are clear from his background yet today's society avoids taking responsibility and actually devises laws which enable them to justify that attitutde.

 

The problems seem clear enough just reading the comments of excusers, avoiders and apologists on here you can see that even our education system has seemingly brainwashed people into a state of mind when they either refuse to see the evil in anyone, refuse to see the potential long term threat those people represent or don't have the will to deal with it.

 

Even victims talk about forgiveness and to hell with the next group of schoolkids or strolling holidaymakers who suffer as a result.  

3

Because we're not seven and this isn't storytime with Mrs. Evenden.

 

There is no such damn thing as inherent good and evil within people, only what they do.

 

Reducing this to such simplistic black and white morality is animalistic and the way fighting never stops and humanity goes extinct.

[Thracian]

3 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

So is it a bad thing to live in a society which believes in giving people a second chance?

Second chance? I didn't imagine you having a problem counting. Do you actually believe in allowing endless crimes until someone actually kills and maims all sorts?  Why don't you take time out and speak to the victims to find how many share your view because they're the ones that count and have all the aftermath of your kind of liberalism to deal with. .   

[Thracian]

3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Because we're not seven and this isn't storytime with Mrs. Evenden.

 

There is no such damn thing as inherent good and evil within people, only what they do.

 

Reducing this to such simplistic black and white morality is animalistic and the way fighting never stops and humanity goes extinct.

  

Fighting hasn't stopped since man walked the earth and there's no signs of that changing so your theorising has absolutely no basis whatsoever.      

[Thracian]

8 hours ago, Rincewind said:

1. I was not defending or aking excuses for his actions. But it is obvious he had mental issues. Knowledge in that field has advanced since the days of Bedlam institutions.and the 'get over it' attitudes  With the right care his condition could have been controlled but that requires funding in social care and governments whoever is in seem to prefer the cure rather than the prevention route. Todays world is a lot ore stressful with more pressures. Just because one person sitting behind a desk in Westminster can cope does not mean a family trying to bring up a young faily on low to mid income can do likewise when juggling bills and mortgages.

Knowledge in the field has advanced so much that the bloke was free to killl and maim freely and at random. So a fat lot of good the "knowledge" did. And don't pass the buck by mentioning funding - if the funds aren't there or haven't been provided that doesn't give people the right to ignore or wash their hands of the problem.    

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, Thracian said:

  

Fighting hasn't stopped since man walked the earth and there's no signs of that changing so your theorising has absolutely no basis whatsoever.      

 

Then we may as well throw up our hands and deem humanity a lost cause.

 

Or maybe, just maybe...at least try to do something to stave that off.

[Thracian]

37 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Then we may as well throw up our hands and deem humanity a lost cause.

 

Or maybe, just maybe...at least try to do something to stave that off.

 

 

Humanity's not likely to be a lost cause, quite the contrary. The growing of human limbs and replacement organs will be so commonplace by the end of this century that life expectancy will grow enormously and there'll likely be far too many people. 

 

In any case, humanity will be a lot safer without terrorists and suchlike to contend with. Whatever "answers" are out there start with a willingness to take responsibility. Unfortunately we're more interested in collecting bus lane and parking fines than dealing with wackos.

 

That's not aimed at the police. They catch these people time and again and get frustrated having to deal with the same offenders time and again. It's the system that finds ways to perpetrate the problems, not just with the laws, sentencing and the custodial system but also in the way big crime reporting makes personalities of these people.

 

So, ironically, the moralising media actually make the problems worse through their own (understandable but still regrettable) irresponsibility because, again regrettably, young people (and some others) can be naively impressionable, some do seem to yearn for strong personalities to follow or hero worthship and they really are easily manipulated as a result. 

 

 

 

[Benguin]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Because we're not seven and this isn't storytime with Mrs. Evenden.

 

There is no such damn thing as inherent good and evil within people, only what they do.

 

Reducing this to such simplistic black and white morality is animalistic and the way fighting never stops and humanity goes extinct.

I am not disagreeing with the argument you are supporting here but I absolutely think morality is black and white and animalistic, the difference is we have found value as a society of condemning that which we perceive to be evil and applauding that which we perceive to be good. As Aristotle said "At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst." Were there not sanctions set by society for what we consider wrongdoing, it would absolutely be black and white.
 

[Rincewind]

Did anyone else misunderstand my post? Maybe someone can explain it better.

Anyway I have said enough on the subject.

[leicsmac]

34 minutes ago, Benguin said:

I am not disagreeing with the argument you are supporting here but I absolutely think morality is black and white and animalistic, the difference is we have found value as a society of condemning that which we perceive to be evil and applauding that which we perceive to be good. As Aristotle said "At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst." Were there not sanctions set by society for what we consider wrongdoing, it would absolutely be black and white.
 

 

I think matters of morality that concern the entirety of humanity are black and white, seeing as extinction or an event that affects all of humanity is the worst case scenario for every individual.

 

You are of course right in the absence of laws, there would be nothing to separate us from other animals, and perhaps you could indeed call that a situation of black and white morality in itself, because there would be only one rule - survive.

 

That is a world I would want no part of.

[Benguin]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I think matters of morality that concern the entirety of humanity are black and white, seeing as extinction or an event that affects all of humanity is the worst case scenario for every individual.

 

You are of course right in the absence of laws, there would be nothing to separate us from other animals, and perhaps you could indeed call that a situation of black and white morality in itself, because there would be only one rule - survive.

 

That is a world I would want no part of.

No me neither seen as I'm asthmatic and avoid confrontation often to my detriment lol.

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Benguin said:

No me neither seen as I'm asthmatic and avoid confrontation often to my detriment lol.

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, Thracian said:

Second chance? I didn't imagine you having a problem counting. Do you actually believe in allowing endless crimes until someone actually kills and maims all sorts?  Why don't you take time out and speak to the victims to find how many share your view because they're the ones that count and have all the aftermath of your kind of liberalism to deal with. .   

Ah yes, the guilt trip.  Rather than make me go talk to the victims why don't you just share with us your findings from when you spoke to them?  What is their opinion on this?  Please go into as much detail as you can I'm eager to hear it all.

[Rincewind]

There is something to be said for victims to confront and talk to the perpetrators. Of course not every victim would want to do it and it does not always work on the criminal but there has been a decent success rate..

[separator]

Slightly off topic but it seems that a Just Giving page for one of the victims has been blocked due to fraud concerns http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39391865

Surely its not as simple as setting up a Just Giving page for a high profile death then pocketing the money? In this case Just Giving have said they will need proof from whoever started the fund raiser.

[Benguin]

1 hour ago, separator said:

Slightly off topic but it seems that a Just Giving page for one of the victims has been blocked due to fraud concerns http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39391865

Surely its not as simple as setting up a Just Giving page for a high profile death then pocketing the money? In this case Just Giving have said they will need proof from whoever started the fund raiser.

If someone's legitimately trying to commit fraud via this method it's the one of the stupidest crimes I've ever heard, how'd you expect to get away with that?

 

I feel a bit uneasy about these anyway. The ones that go viral raise literally half a mill to a million pounds it's insane. thousands of people die everyday and whilst stories are heart warming or in the case of that police officer very brave, I just would never donate unless I knew the family personally.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

On ‎24‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 10:34, Thracian said:

 

How conveniently you ignore this sincerely written sentence. But then that's you all over. See what you want to see.  

 

"Then and only then can we, through much more stringent and sensible rules, develop the multicultural society that will fit in with and compliment our own and which,. really, shouldn't be hard to bring about given that so many communities represent virtually no general threat to others either here in the UK or elsewhere." 

 

I'm on record here as never wanting us to venture into the Middle East to kill a single Iraqi. I have no problem with people of other cultures as a few on here might testify and many other friends too. 

 

To call me a nazi is about as insulting as it is wholly unjustified...for personal and ideological reasons. 

 

"Our" people as mentioned are the British people who've been here for generations and who seem to be increasingly ignored and disrespected as our nation evolves.

 

Other more recent incomers from various communities and backgrounds are guests here as far as I see it - and more than welcome to British citizenship if they show themselves willing and able to live harmoniously among us and to be a credit to our community. 

 

But many are not and the evidence is there in every newspaper and on every television screen every day. We've always had wrongdoers in the UK but I've never seen the reason to accommodate outsiders who wish us harm or harm to others.

 

And by that I don't mean just terrorists but the countless numbers who've exploited vulnerable young people in places like Rotherham and so many places beyond. 

 

Very few of these were "our" people but what would you say about them. Do you somehow believe they belong here and represent our culture and everything we want our country and its communities to represent?

 

Speak up for them by all means - I can't wait.          

I 100% agree with you, Thrac. Some people have their heads buried in the sand, and chose to ignore common sense.

 

Repatriation, is the way forward, starting with the work shy immigrants and those with criminal records, while halting all further immigration.

 

 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

I 100% agree with you, Thrac. Some people have their heads buried in the sand, and chose to ignore common sense.

 

Repatriation, is the way forward, starting with the work shy immigrants and those with criminal records, while halting all further immigration.

 

 

And some people have their heads buried in 1930s Germany

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

14 minutes ago, Emilio Lestavez said:

And some people have their heads buried in 1930s Germany

Ha! what a typical "Drongo" you always are. You have my deepest sympathy.

[Rincewind]

I like how when other countries treat other people like shit it is crimes against humanity but when it happens here it is common sense.

[Parafox]

2 hours ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

I 100% agree with you, Thrac. Some people have their heads buried in the sand, and chose to ignore common sense.

 

Repatriation, is the way forward, starting with the work shy immigrants and those with criminal records, while halting all further immigration.