Firegrande Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 Why do the media always have to release these idiots names and images? You're just adding to the problem of people wanting to copy. If you left them nameless and faceless you take all their power away. Who they were doesn't matter. We should only remember the victims! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 2 minutes ago, Firegrande said: Why do the media always have to release these idiots names and images? You're just adding to the problem of people wanting to copy. If you left them nameless and faceless you take all their power away. Who they were doesn't matter. We should only remember the victims! You'd rather the identities of criminals were kept secret? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 3 minutes ago, Firegrande said: Why do the media always have to release these idiots names and images? You're just adding to the problem of people wanting to copy. If you left them nameless and faceless you take all their power away. Who they were doesn't matter. We should only remember the victims! I think what you mean is that it really doesn't matter to you - thats not really a statement you can make on behalf of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firegrande Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 I just don't see the point in naming a dead terrorist, plastering his face and name everywhere giving him air time Should be about the brave people who lost their lives and stopped and helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 15 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: You'd rather the identities of criminals were kept secret? I'd rather that instead of trying to save his life, one of the coppers would have picked his knife up and chopped his head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 50 minutes ago, StanSP said: Why is no one questioning the role of Birmingham in all of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 7 hours ago, Parafox said: I have to agree with you. I was watching the news last night and it was cringe-worthy the way the journo's were carrying on, repeating things that had been said by a previous interviewee, milking the tragic event for all they were worth, so much so that I became irritated and distracted. This was comparatively minor on the scale of things. When 5 people died in the bin lorry crash it got 20 minutes of coverage on the news. There was no blanket reporting the following day on radio 5 as there is today; repeatedly interviewing different politicians who had been confined within the HoP for the duration. They're like leeches sucking every drop from this. The media thrives on news the same as the NHS thrives on patients. Journalists themselves will be under instruction relating to the depth of coverage and the kind of approach they should take. And newsrooms would quite likely be inundated with enquiries from home and abroad about the wellbeing, or otherwise of people who might be involved, particularly parents of schoolchildren on visits from places like France. Repetition is done to inform new listeners or to fill-in time if more, sometimes highly important, information is expected. As for comparing yesterday's terrorism with the bin lorry crash there is no comparison in news terms between the one and the other. The London event was infinitely more important to any national or international news organisation. Furthermore the media might also become a helping hand for the police particularly in relation to any pictures or film members of the public might have taken and which might be vital to any ongoing investigation relating to all sorts of aspects of the incident. Insulting journalists is as hurtful as it is unjustified. Most are just doing a job to the best of their ability like doctors, nurses and paramedics. I wasn't too pleased to see my grandaughter's young mum lose her life while her newborn child lay in her arms due to what I believe were the mistakes of the medical profession but I don't go round thinking or calling everyone in the profession "leeches" or arseholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 A fourth person (75-year-old) is now reported to have died. RIP to all. Quite out of the blue really. May have been mentioned but these types of attacks in particular are ones that are more difficult to erase. It could happen on any street in the UK but London is no exception (now obviously, unfortunately). Not sure how this type of incident can be stopped, can only imagine only that all vehicles should be checked for guns, knives etc - but that would affect traffic movement in an already bustling-with-traffic, popular tourist area. So-called Islamic State have, no surprise, claimed responsibility, but personally not entirely convinced without more hard evidence it is Islamic (or faith)-related, and if so if he did it by deciding himself or whether a member of IS directed him. Something, of course, investigators will pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 British born terrorists french born terrorists European immigration controls won't stop this ! Neither will Brexit The war on terror is like the war on drugs POINTLESS and without any evidence based success these wars will get even more pointless we need to reach out to our minority communities and we need to understand people better and help people make better choices ! We also need to move on quickly from out disasterous foreign policy ! Change is needed , and quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 4 hours ago, yorkie1999 said: I'd rather that instead of trying to save his life, one of the coppers would have picked his knife up and chopped his head off. Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 36 minutes ago, GaelicFox said: Wow Yes wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyJones Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 1 hour ago, GaelicFox said: British born terrorists french born terrorists European immigration controls won't stop this ! Neither will Brexit The war on terror is like the war on drugs POINTLESS and without any evidence based success these wars will get even more pointless we need to reach out to our minority communities and we need to understand people better and help people make better choices ! We also need to move on quickly from out disasterous foreign policy ! Change is needed , and quickly It seems to me that we have been reaching out to minority communities for over 40 years, perhaps it would help if they tried reaching back. Why is it that minorities have no requirement to understand people better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benguin Posted 23 March 2017 Share Posted 23 March 2017 22 hours ago, leicsmac said: Sorry, the first sentence was meant to be the answer to both posts. The second paragraph was meant to explain what it meant to both posts in turn. Apologies for my lack of seemly clarity. It's important because how we treat each of our citizens, no matter their beliefs, separates us from ugly theocracies like that. When events like this happen, it's really easy to see the 'other' who look like they've come from those countries (even if they were in fact born here) as sharing the awful beliefs of those who set law in those Middle Eastern States. It would be so easy to slide down that slippery slope, especially when there are those on all sides that want it to happen for their own reasons. Condemning the conditions in most of those ME countries goes without saying - theocracy is a terrible form of government, and we should criticise and apply what pressure we can to help change that. But there is only a limited amount we can do about that - such change has to come from within their own countries, if it can. Pretty much every time there has been more than the most indirect intervention, it has resulted in nothing but a lot of death and misery. What we can do - what we should do - is to make sure, while we wait for those countries to emerge from their theocratic dark age, that we don't choose to join them on a similar ideological (not belief) level. I think you are suggesting that peoples lifestyle choices and what people are born with should both be treated in a liberal fashion free from criticism in order to distinguish ourselves from theocracies such as certain countries in the middle east. My contention is in order to separate ourselves from theocracies as mentioned, we must be free to criticise peoples lifestyle choices whereas what people are born with should be unchallenged. To me in order to have true liberty a gay man should be free from criticism for being gay as this is, in the opinion of any credible scholar, not a choice, on the other hand though religion is usually culturally specific and runs in families it is ultimately a choice and thus should be met with criticism where necessary. (such as instances like yesterday) This is the most logical in my opinion as in your worldview a person has liberty to believe in what they wish but everyone who disagrees does not have liberty to criticise, whereas in my worldview any person has liberty to believe as they wish but any person also has liberty to challenge these views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benguin Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 1 hour ago, GaelicFox said: British born terrorists french born terrorists European immigration controls won't stop this ! Neither will Brexit The war on terror is like the war on drugs POINTLESS and without any evidence based success these wars will get even more pointless we need to reach out to our minority communities and we need to understand people better and help people make better choices ! We also need to move on quickly from out disasterous foreign policy ! Change is needed , and quickly You're saying that the onus is on us to help and understand these minorities? Where have you been all your life? In what way has The United Kingdom failed to help minorities? I mean the fact that you support Leicester must have given you some evidence of exactly how accommodating the United Kingdom is of minorities? Have you ever been to Leicester? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 44 minutes ago, Benguin said: I think you are suggesting that peoples lifestyle choices and what people are born with should both be treated in a liberal fashion free from criticism in order to distinguish ourselves from theocracies such as certain countries in the middle east. My contention is in order to separate ourselves from theocracies as mentioned, we must be free to criticise peoples lifestyle choices whereas what people are born with should be unchallenged. To me in order to have true liberty a gay man should be free from criticism for being gay as this is, in the opinion of any credible scholar, not a choice, on the other hand though religion is usually culturally specific and runs in families it is ultimately a choice and thus should be met with criticism where necessary. (such as instances like yesterday) This is the most logical in my opinion as in your worldview a person has liberty to believe in what they wish but everyone who disagrees does not have liberty to criticise, whereas in my worldview any person has liberty to believe as they wish but any person also has liberty to challenge these views. Good viewpoint there. I certainly agree that religion and the way it is used should be criticised where necessary without generalisation (I think that's the key part of what I'm getting at here, that theocracies generalise and it is so easy for it to perhaps happen here). I think that our differences don't necessarily lie in a straight criticism/lack of criticism dichotomy, but rather in a degree of difference between how much criticism we feel is necessary or warranted to have the desired effect. Perhaps I'm too soft but I don't really like giving people a hard time unless I'm at the total end of my tether about a matter and really 100% feeling justified in doing so (environment and space issues tend to poke that button more than social or economic politics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benguin Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 2 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Good viewpoint there. I certainly agree that religion and the way it is used should be criticised where necessary without generalisation (I think that's the key part of what I'm getting at here, that theocracies generalise and it is so easy for it to perhaps happen here). I think that our differences don't necessarily lie in a straight criticism/lack of criticism dichotomy, but rather in a degree of difference between how much criticism we feel is necessary or warranted to have the desired effect. Perhaps I'm too soft but I don't really like giving people a hard time unless I'm at the total end of my tether about a matter and really 100% feeling justified in doing so (environment and space issues tend to poke that button more than social or economic politics). It is somewhat difficult for me to reply to this in a civilised fashion given my owns views on religion. My view is the peaceful majority in most religions do not fully subscribe to their religion. The peaceful majority was none existent before the enlightenment so to speak, now people who have faith but are also intelligent or peaceful have to pick and choose what parts of their religion they believe or have to delude themselves that there is a different context in which to interpret aspects of the religion so as to divert the true interpretation. It's abundantly clear to me and many others that most religions (not religious people) are hostile and violent. The people who direct their hatred of Islam on the peaceful majority are few and far between in reality, it's just the left has a very diluted version of what "hatred" is. Most people who are critical of Islam attack the values of the religion itself, the values that lead to radicals stabbing people and running people over. I see liberal values in the peaceful majority having the onus to defend their religion and condemn the attacks committed in its name far more than I see liberty in victims of terror not being allowed to express their views on the ideology that caused their suffering even if it offends people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 8 hours ago, Voll Blau said: You'd rather the identities of criminals were kept secret? The thread has already been through this and yes there is a credible argument for not giving them the exposure they crave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 6 hours ago, Benguin said: You're saying that the onus is on us to help and understand these minorities? Where have you been all your life? In what way has The United Kingdom failed to help minorities? I mean the fact that you support Leicester must have given you some evidence of exactly how accommodating the United Kingdom is of minorities? Have you ever been to Leicester? I live here and there are excellent solutions to national issues to be found in Leicester its not about accommodating It's about integration and large parts of urban Britain are segregated ... Leicester has great integration , but in Birmingham , london Manchester , Leeds , Bradford etc.... there are massive immigrant ghettos , history shows that those communities will always breed contempt and anger ... add in religious radicalisation and you create breeding grounds for terrorists we need to careful in Leicester we are creating some new segregated ghettos , for example all the Somalian families forced onto St Matthews estate .... listen to the people that have lived on the estate for decades and they will tell you trouble is coming they hear the chatter of angry young men , add radicalisation to the issue and its only time before we get more Leicester terrorists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 6 hours ago, BoyJones said: It seems to me that we have been reaching out to minority communities for over 40 years, perhaps it would help if they tried reaching back. Why is it that minorities have no requirement to understand people better? Majority of minorities do ... millions of Muslims and Minority groups live here and have lived here for decades if not centuries and have always the Majority of these groups are integrated and accepted the British way off life (I'm a perfect example love my real ale and cricket now ) but there will always be a small few who feel ostracised and impoverished and angry and if you as radicalisation to that mix you create terrorists ! The inner city riots in the 80's and 00's imagine if there was was wide scale radicalisation in the mix back then this country would have had a civil war we need to work at solutions and quickly because the problem is growing and quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 6 hours ago, yorkie1999 said: Yes wow Your part of the problem my friend not the solution if you think policemen beheading people is a good thing ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaelicFox Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 And still the shite goes on! This sort of crap is another bucket of coal on the furnace of radicalisation ! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375961 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxoffderby Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 Masood Aka Adrian Elms makes you wonder when he was radicalised ? Perhaps in prison. Our prisons are too soft all this stuff about rehab and prevention does not work. We are too soft on criminals lock them up and make them do hard labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 13 hours ago, Voll Blau said: You'd rather the identities of criminals were kept secret? More or less. So say these experts (no, not Charlie Brooker, the man after him.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 2 hours ago, GaelicFox said: Your part of the problem my friend not the solution if you think policemen beheading people is a good thing ! I don't think it's a good thing, who said I did, but I do believe in an eye for an eye. There is no solution and there is no message being sent to these people and all the psychoanalysing and trying to understand these people is not going to help. I suppose you'll start throwing the race card about next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 24 March 2017 Share Posted 24 March 2017 11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said: I don't think it's a good thing, who said I did, but I do believe in an eye for an eye. There is no solution and there is no message being sent to these people and all the psychoanalysing and trying to understand these people is not going to help. I suppose you'll start throwing the race card about next. Errr, a bit like Sharia law?* (*as feared by the edl) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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