Shots Fired Outside House of Commons

[yorkie1999]

5 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Mate it's not hard to drive your car onto a random pavement with pedestrians on it, the police can't monitor every person in every car on every road. Hardly takes evil genius levels of covert planning.

Whether it's easy or hard is not the point though, it's the message that's being delivered. I mean, say if there was a dirty bomb in the back of that car, it would still have been easy to get it to the center of London, wouldn't it.

[RobHawk]

1 hour ago, Thracian said:

It seemed to me that my comments were being related to the terror incident specifically and they weren't. Furthermore I've not been glued to the coverage like some some and have no specific comment to make about anyone concerning that event - except in relation to peripheries that became apparent on the first day and to the political comment regarding Birmingham which was mainly a general comment in itself.  

I wonder why that has happened - have you seen the title of this thread? 

[Rincewind]

Yes by anyone. The person driving does not even have to be aware of it. Other than searching 24/7 not a lot we can do to stop this type of attack. Motive could be varous or they cold just be someone with paranoid mental issues.

If there is an increase in stop and search who are they going to stop? Anyone with a dark skin? So you appease those angry at discrimination by increasing discrimination levels? Very clever.

[Thracian]

18 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

Glad to hear that, my Grandparents were Irish but we're all white.

Still trying to work out if this makes me a valid citizen or just a visitor.

 

On a side note it's a good job this guy changed his name because 

Adrian is no name for a terrorist.

Having "guest" or "temporary" status in a country is nothing unusual. All the time I spent in Switzerland was as a guest.

It's never seemed easy to get permanent citizenship over there, any more than places like New Zealand but then I've never been minded to try, so others might feel differently.

If citizenship anywhere was conditional, temporary, restricted, reversible or time/points based, I'd have no problem with it.

Terrorism and other radicalism perhaps impacts on incomer or potential incomer citizens here almost as much as our own, but that doesn't negate our need to be cautious, questioning and emphatic about who we accept and the safeguards in doing so which don't seem nearly effective enough judging by the terrorist count in recent years and the number of declaredly foiled terror incidents. 

I don't know what prompted the  "colour" comment you refer to but it's so wrong its laughable.  

And when people mow down groups of vacationing kiddies to emphasise the lunacy of any idealism they'll get no sympathy, understanding, compromise or excuses from me whatever colour or creed they are...and despite those who would deny that their own humanly idealistic but essentially flawed viewpoints (together with the human rights laws that support those views) have actually helped facilitate such actions because the laws are so easily taken advantage of and made to look foolish.  

Theyre as naive as having Parliament next to what is a ridiculously busy road, in terms of vehicles and pedestrians, and having insufficient protection against the kind of attack we've just had and which was always inevitable in the current climate.

It's hindsight I know but not the kind of vulnerability that's hard to spot or deal with.

That we didn't deal with it only reflects the naivity I've basically been talking about.

People can't be trusted. They never could be.

And it's not the first time London has shown itself to be vulnerable by any means.    
Why persist with clearly mistaken attitudes, I wonder?

"So life carries on as normal."  seems to be the stock answer.

But it doesn't. It's a myth. And it certainly won't be normal for the families affected nor for a lot of other people too when revised "health and safety" recommendations kick in.

Already the cost in life and limb has been awful but there'll be further cost both financially and through the still more erosion of freedom.

And that's a significant and seemingly continuing return for terrorism, and, on this occasion, terrorism that should almost certainly never have happened for several reasons.

But you have to go back to my youth to realise how much has been lost in our society and for so little gained in respect of happiness, freedom and a sense of wellbing within the community.                  

      

[Thracian]

8 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

Yes by anyone. The person driving does not even have to be aware of it. Other than searching 24/7 not a lot we can do to stop this type of attack. Motive could be varous or they cold just be someone with paranoid mental issues.

Concrete blocks along the pavement might have helped though - we get em quickly enough to protect the workforce on motorways. 

[Manwell Pablo]

3 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Having "guest" or "temporary" status in a country is nothing unusual. All the time I spent in Switzerland was as a guest.

It's never seemed easy to get permanent citizenship over there, any more than places like New Zealand but then I've never been minded to try, so others might feel differently.

If citizenship anywhere was conditional, temporary, restricted, reversible or time/points based, I'd have no problem with it.

Terrorism and other radicalism perhaps impacts on incomer or potential incomer citizens here almost as much as our own, but that doesn't negate our need to be cautious, questioning and emphatic about who we accept and the safeguards in doing so which don't seem nearly effective enough judging by the terrorist count in recent years and the number of declaredly foiled terror incidents. 

I don't know what prompted the  "colour" comment you refer to but it's so wrong its laughable.  

And when people mow down groups of vacationing kiddies to emphasise the lunacy of any idealism they'll get no sympathy, understanding, compromise or excuses from me whatever colour or creed they are...and despite those who would deny that their own humanly idealistic but essentially flawed viewpoints (together with the human rights laws that support those views) have actually helped facilitate such actions because the laws are so easily taken advantage of and made to look foolish.  

Theyre as naive as having Parliament next to what is a ridiculously busy road, in terms of vehicles and pedestrians, and having insufficient protection against the kind of attack we've just had and which was always inevitable in the current climate.

It's hindsight I know but not the kind of vulnerability that's hard to spot or deal with.

That we didn't deal with it only reflects the naivity I've basically been talking about.

People can't be trusted. They never could be.

And it's not the first time London has shown itself to be vulnerable by any means.    
Why persist with clearly mistaken attitudes, I wonder?

"So life carries on as normal."  seems to be the stock answer.

But it doesn't. It's a myth. And it certainly won't be normal for the families affected nor for a lot of other people too when revised "health and safety" recommendations kick in.

Already the cost in life and limb has been awful but there'll be further cost both financially and through the still more erosion of freedom.

And that's a significant and seemingly continuing return for terrorism, and, on this occasion, terrorism that should almost certainly never have happened for several reasons.

But you have to go back to my youth to realise how much has been lost in our society and for so little gained in respect of happiness, freedom and a sense of wellbing within the community.                  

      

 

Pretty sure it's actually quite easy to get citizenship in Switzerland or New Zealand if you were, you know, born there!

[Thracian]

16 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

I wonder why that has happened - have you seen the title of this thread? 

It's not unusual at such times for there to be a crossover of comment related to different threads. I can't be bothered to do the delving if such a misunderstanding or mistake has been made either by me or anyone else. Life goes on - at least for some. 

[yorkie1999]

4 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Concrete blocks along the pavement might have helped though - we get em quickly enough to protect the workforce on motorways. 

I thought that last night when it was on the news and they were saying "there was little that could have been done to prevent this happening"

[Thracian]

6 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Pretty sure it's actually quite easy to get citizenship in Switzerland or New Zealand if you were, you know, born there!

It still doesn't necessarily make it right, in various circumstances, but we'll clearly disagree about that ad infinitum. 

[Manwell Pablo]

5 minutes ago, Thracian said:

It still doesn't necessarily make it right, in various circumstances, but we'll clearly disagree about that ad infinitum. 

 

What circumstances? You wonder why people accuse you of racism when you are saying certain individuals should not be granted citizenship of the country they were born in on the day they were born like you were? The only difference between you, me, and that terrorist on the day we were all born is the colour of his skin, you can't even bring cultural upbrining into it as he hasn't even started to be raised, exactly what has that newborn child done to be refused citizenship of the country of their birth?

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Thracian said:

It still doesn't necessarily make it right, in various circumstances, but we'll clearly disagree about that ad infinitum. 

Allow me to get this right.

 

You're advocating for the denial of citizenship of a country to individuals born in that country based on arbitrary parameters?

 

I'm reading this right, yes?

[Rincewind]

I have friends who went over to Spain to have their baby and were delayed for about a month coming back because the Spanish authorities mixed up the baby's citizenship. Think they had her down as Spanish wherehas they wanted dual or English.

[Strokes]

45 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Whether it's easy or hard is not the point though, it's the message that's being delivered. I mean, say if there was a dirty bomb in the back of that car, it would still have been easy to get it to the center of London, wouldn't it.

If it was that easy, why didn't they have a dirty bomb? They were hell bent on causing as much carnage as possible, surely they would have done this.

Getting a dirty bomb requires research and contacting people, who will be known, which will attract attention. They've obviously thought this spells failure and come up with this lame effort as the best they can muster. You have to credit the security services for that.

[Thracian]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Allow me to get this right.

 

You're advocating for the denial of citizenship of a country to individuals born in that country based on arbitrary parameters?

 

I'm reading this right, yes?

 

No. You've inserted the word "arbitrary" and what I said didn't relate to anything being "arbitrary" . 

[Thracian]

12 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

What circumstances? You wonder why people accuse you of racism when you are saying certain individuals should not be granted citizenship of the country they were born in on the day they were born like you were? The only difference between you, me, and that terrorist on the day we were all born is the colour of his skin, you can't even bring cultural upbrining into it as he hasn't even started to be raised, exactly what has that newborn child done to be refused citizenship of the country of their birth?

I've not bothered asking thus far but please explain what the hell the colour of a person's skin has to do with what we are and have been discussing, Nothing about my views on citizenship have anything to do with colour so please do me the courtesy of explaining when you persist with labouring something that is completely disconnected and nothing to do with my thinking in the slightest.  

[Manwell Pablo]

11 minutes ago, Thracian said:

I've not bothered asking thus far but please explain what the hell the colour of a person's skin has to do with what we are and have been discussing, Nothing about my views on citizenship have anything to do with colour so please do me the courtesy of explaining when you persist with labouring something that is completely disconnected and nothing to do with my thinking in the slightest.  

 

Because that's literally the only difference between that terrorist, and plenty of others of the many terrorists that have attacked these shores (most were born here) and you at birth. If I've missed something, please explain. 

 

I'm assuming you  do not have a time machine and can foresee the atrocity's these individuals would commit if you do my apologies.

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Thracian said:

 

No. You've inserted the word "arbitrary" and what I said didn't relate to anything being "arbitrary" . 

 

Actually, no, that's true. You didn't say arbitrary at all.

 

I think your requirements for denial would be rather specific, as opposed to arbitrary.

[Thracian]

32 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

What circumstances? You wonder why people accuse you of racism when you are saying certain individuals should not be granted citizenship of the country they were born in on the day they were born like you were? The only difference between you, me, and that terrorist on the day we were all born is the colour of his skin, you can't even bring cultural upbrining into it as he hasn't even started to be raised, exactly what has that newborn child done to be refused citizenship of the country of their birth?

I actually had to check the colour of the guy's skin after your above comment because I hadn't looked at the picture of the guy on the stretcher. Not that it makes any difference. My comments on citizenship were responses prompted by others and actually have nothing to do with the terrorism suspect which is all sub judice anyway. But knowing now that he's supposedly lived all his life in England - and assuming he's here legitimately - my views on citizenship would have nothing to do with him. And less than nothing to do with his colour. 

 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

1 minute ago, Thracian said:

I actually had to check the colour of the guy's skin after your above comment because I hadn't looked at the picture of the guy on the stretcher. Not that it makes any difference. My comments on citizenship were responses prompted by others and actually have nothing to do with the terrorism suspect which is all sub judice anyway. But knowing now that he's supposedly lived all his life in England - and assuming he's here legitimately - my views on citizenship would have nothing to do with him. And less than nothing to do with his colour. 

 

 

 

Everything to do with Citizenship has been bought about by you, making a story that has nothing to do with immigration problems to do with immigration problems.

[yorkie1999]

56 minutes ago, Strokes said:

If it was that easy, why didn't they have a dirty bomb? They were hell bent on causing as much carnage as possible, surely they would have done this.

Getting a dirty bomb requires research and contacting people, who will be known, which will attract attention. They've obviously thought this spells failure and come up with this lame effort as the best they can muster. You have to credit the security services for that.

Because they don't need one to make a statement of being able to get to one of Britain's most important areas without too much effort. Me using a dirty bomb is just an example.

[Thracian]

4 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Everything to do with Citizenship has been bought about by you, making a story that has nothing to do with immigration problems to do with immigration problems.

You seem to be right about this on reflection. I should have read the preamble to a comment made on the subjects before responding and apologise fo any misunderstanding.

 

To be clear:

 

a) I have not, nor am I likely to have any point to make on the citizenship question.

 

b) Colour wouldn't be a factor even if I had intended to comment about the man mentioned and would never be a factor in any citizenship debate of mine.

 

c) Mainly to leicsmac: I've checked the citizenship law guidelines and my concerns on the matter would seem to be adequately addressed already,

 

     

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Because they don't need one to make a statement of being able to get to one of Britain's most important areas without too much effort. Me using a dirty bomb is just an example.

We didn't need a statement to tell us that, we call it a free country for a reason. If you didn't know that already you are probably a bit simple.

 

Anyone with a driving licence and access to kitchen utensils can be a bit of a menace, if they are unhinged. Thanks for the update, excuse me whilst I draw the curtains and bolt the door.

[Buce]

10 minutes ago, Strokes said:

We didn't need a statement to tell us that, we call it a free country for a reason. If you didn't know that already you are probably a bit simple.

 

Anyone with a driving licence and access to kitchen utensils can be a bit of a menace, if they are unhinged. Thanks for the update, excuse me whilst I draw the curtains and bolt the door.

 

Not sure about the driving license, but..

 

 

[leicsmac]

15 minutes ago, Thracian said:

You seem to be right about this on reflection. I should have read the preamble to a comment made on the subjects before responding and apologise fo any misunderstanding.

 

To be clear:

 

a) I have not, nor am I likely to have any point to make on the terror suspect's citizenship, nor ever would comment specifically about anything sub-judice.

 

b) Colour wouldn't be a factor even if I had intended to comment about the man mentioned and would never be a factor in any citizenship debate of mine.

 

c) Mainly to leicsmac: I've checked the citizenship law guidelines and my concerns on the matter would seem to be adequately addressed already,

 

     

 

Fair enough.

[Strokes]

I'd be up for deporting that fukker buce.