davieG Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 Summary MPs approve motion to call general election by 522 to 13 Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn clash at PMQs SNP and Lib Dems attack PM over her decision to avoid TV debates George Osborne says he's quitting as MP MPs expected to back snap general election on 8 June SNP to abstain, but Labour and Lib Dems to vote for Election is needed to help Brexit, Theresa May says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 57 minutes ago, IrememberBobHazell said: Ooooh I feel a tidal wave of ranting building up, please don't be the Barnes Wallace to unleash it. It will start with those propoaganda 'Focus' leaflets and personal anedcotes of lies and dishonest campaigning. I'll froth at the mouth so much you will think I need a Rabies shot. Ah yes actually those leaflets are really shit. I forgot about them. Point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 30 minutes ago, Finnaldo said: Tactically voting Liberal Democrats. I wouldn't vote for them usually after a performance that was so limp-wristed the only comparable is going to the City Ground at 3pm on a Saturday, but it's just to get David Tredinnick out. Not necessarily because he's a Tory (that's just an unfortunate footnote) but because, in my fair opinion, he's an anti-gay, anti-human rights creature who believes the positioning of the fvcking stars should affect your prescription. He's almost neck to neck with good old Vaz in terms of under-qualified, totally incompetent fools to take office. He's the one man study case into how FPTP can totally fail a constituency. In his 30 year reign his career highlights was votes to repeal the smoking and hunting bans, votes against any kind of gay rights vote. I pray he at least steps down soon because I don't see him stepping down anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baylisslcfc Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 32 minutes ago, Finnaldo said: Tactically voting Liberal Democrats. I wouldn't vote for them usually after a performance that was so limp-wristed the only comparable is going to the City Ground at 3pm on a Saturday, but it's just to get David Tredinnick out. Not necessarily because he's a Tory (that's just an unfortunate footnote) but because, in my fair opinion, he's an anti-gay, anti-human rights creature who believes the positioning of the fvcking stars should affect your prescription. He's almost neck to neck with good old Vaz in terms of under-qualified, totally incompetent fools to take office. He's the one man study case into how FPTP can totally fail a constituency. In his 30 year reign his career highlights was votes to repeal the smoking and hunting bans, votes against any kind of gay rights vote. I pray he at least steps down soon because I don't see him stepping down anytime soon. This. Although, my MP in neighbouring South Leicestershire is now Alberto Costa - the previous MP Andrew Robathan was a dreadful person, but nowhere near as bad as Tredinnick. Many of my friends that I went to college with live in Bosworth and informed me of his antics, they all tactically voted Lib Dems in 2015. I hope you get him out, or he resigns, but as you stated I can't see that happening either. The bloke is vile, he makes some of the other venomous Tories seem like Mother Teresa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said: She needs a bigger majority becuase some of her back benchers want a harder Brexit than she is planning, and they will vote against it. 100 more will help her no end. The fact she's unable to convince her own party and is betting on unknown Tories rather than the ones who voted her in supporting her sounds pretty weak to me. And she's already promised the hard Brexit her hard Brexit lobby wants: leaving the EU, the EEA and the Single Market. And she's not going to alter that in two months. So she's drafting in a load of Tory MPs who in no way will definitely support her to go against what she's already claimed she'll do with Brexit? Smacks of a desperate woman. I think it's more likely she wants an election now when she knows the going is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnaldo Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 18 minutes ago, Buce said: Oops, long day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 "These load of Tories will turn on me, so I'll lie about the Brexit we'll have, and then bung a load more Tories in the Commons - because they can't all oppose me right??" So she doesn't want a bigger majority against Labour, but a bigger majority against her own party, by fibbing somewhat about her Brexit plans, changing them later down the line and hoping the new Tory MPs will support her? Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 1 hour ago, Finnaldo said: Tactically voting Liberal Democrats. I wouldn't vote for them usually after a performance that was so limp-wristed the only comparable is going to the City Ground at 3pm on a Saturday, but it's just to get David Tredinnick out. Not necessarily because he's a Tory (that's just an unfortunate footnote) but because, in my fair opinion, he's an anti-gay, anti-human rights creature who believes the positioning of the fvcking stars should affect your prescription. He's almost neck to neck with good old Vaz in terms of under-qualified, totally incompetent fools to take office. He's the one man study case into how FPTP can totally fail a constituency. In his 30 year reign his career highlights was votes to repeal the smoking and hunting bans, votes against any kind of gay rights vote. I pray he at least steps down soon because I don't see him being voted out. Him stepping down is your only hope, I fear. I was living in Hinckley at the 1997 election. Nationally, the Tories suffered their biggest massacre in living memory, losing 178 seats. Treddinick had just been suspended from parliament in a "cash for questions" corruption scandal. Yet the good people of Hinckley & Bosworth still voted him back in by about 1000 votes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 I have to smile at some of this outrage. It wasn't long ago that we were told that Theresa May had no mandate because she hadn't been elected by anyone. We were told that referendums were only used by dictators and big issues should be decided by parliament. We were told that nobody voted for hard brexit. This election will put all of that right but now were told that we shouldn't have one because it looks like she's going to win. What do you people want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 6 minutes ago, Webbo said: I have to smile at some of this outrage. It wasn't long ago that we were told that Theresa May had no mandate because she hadn't been elected by anyone. We were told that referendums were only used by dictators and big issues should be decided by parliament. We were told that nobody voted for hard brexit. This election will put all of that right but now were told that we shouldn't have one because it looks like she's going to win. What do you people want? To have their cake and eat it multiple times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 8 minutes ago, Webbo said: I have to smile at some of this outrage. It wasn't long ago that we were told that Theresa May had no mandate because she hadn't been elected by anyone. We were told that referendums were only used by dictators and big issues should be decided by parliament. We were told that nobody voted for hard brexit. This election will put all of that right but now were told that we shouldn't have one because it looks like she's going to win. What do you people want? They want to win the election, but they don't have a credible party to vote for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 Tactical voting is like voting against someone rather than voting for someone right? A bit like hate, isn't that what you guys preach against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 41 minutes ago, Webbo said: I have to smile at some of this outrage. It wasn't long ago that we were told that Theresa May had no mandate because she hadn't been elected by anyone. We were told that referendums were only used by dictators and big issues should be decided by parliament. We were told that nobody voted for hard brexit. This election will put all of that right but now were told that we shouldn't have one because it looks like she's going to win. What do you people want? Claims by politicians that May had no mandate were a cynical misrepresentation of our political system. We elect parliaments, not PMs. The Tories had a mandate and chose to change leader, so May had a mandate from parliament, like Callaghan, Major & Brown before her. She just views this as a politically expedient moment to increase her power, what with Labour being in disarray, led by a half-wit and with the British economy and society not having been devastated by Brexit yet. Anybody who told you that nobody voted for Hard Brexit was talking bollocks, Webbo. 48% voted Remain, 52% voted Brexit. Some of the latter voted Hard Brexit, some voted Soft Brexit, many voted Haven't-Got-A-Clue Brexit....would be hard to say what fraction of the 52% belonged to each of those 3 categories. So, this election will put it all right, will it? Having backed Remain herself, Is May going to campaign for a mandate for Hard Brexit, spelling out all the consequences of that, before it's even been negotiated? Thus far, she seems to be refusing to say exactly what she wants a Brexit mandate for - so she's called an election to ask for a mandate for something, but won't tell us what it is....she wants a blank cheque. And she's done that when she already has a referendum mandate for Brexit, parliamentary approval to proceed and a majority in the Commons. It's utterly cynical abuse of the democratic system for personal/party political advantage. I'm not outraged at it, though. I've been saying for months that it was the logical thing for her to do. I'm only surprised she had any doubt about calling an election (if she did). With the economy not having tanked yet and Corbyn as an opponent, it's a no-brainer. It's dirty politics, but that's what successful politicians do. "What do you people want?" I'd like a proper vote in parliament and/or an election not now but in 18 months when any negotiated terms for Hard Brexit and/or any prospective trade deals are known and the likely consequences are evident. Obviously, I never expected to get that, because it wouldn't be in the interests of the Tory Govt to hand power to parliament or the people at a time when the country's going down the toilet. Instead, in 18 months time we'll all be sitting on the dole with Brexit looking like a pile of shite, no trade deals, public services being slashed and we'll be scratching our heads wondering why we thought May was such a great leader!? Still, at least Corbyn will be gone (surely?!) Meanwhile, here's some good news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39645885 "Former Conservative chancellor Ken Clarke is to stand again to be an MP in the 8 June general election".....a voice of sanity and competence in parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 10 minutes ago, Strokes said: Tactical voting is like voting against someone rather than voting for someone right? A bit like hate, isn't that what you guys preach against? Not even a bit like hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Claims by politicians that May had no mandate were a cynical misrepresentation of our political system. We elect parliaments, not PMs. The Tories had a mandate and chose to change leader, so May had a mandate from parliament, like Callaghan, Major & Brown before her. She just views this as a politically expedient moment to increase her power, what with Labour being in disarray, led by a half-wit and with the British economy and society not having been devastated by Brexit yet. Anybody who told you that nobody voted for Hard Brexit was talking bollocks, Webbo. 48% voted Remain, 52% voted Brexit. Some of the latter voted Hard Brexit, some voted Soft Brexit, many voted Haven't-Got-A-Clue Brexit....would be hard to say what fraction of the 52% belonged to each of those 3 categories. So, this election will put it all right, will it? Having backed Remain herself, Is May going to campaign for a mandate for Hard Brexit, spelling out all the consequences of that, before it's even been negotiated? Thus far, she seems to be refusing to say exactly what she wants a Brexit mandate for - so she's called an election to ask for a mandate for something, but won't tell us what it is....she wants a blank cheque. And she's done that when she already has a referendum mandate for Brexit, parliamentary approval to proceed and a majority in the Commons. It's utterly cynical abuse of the democratic system for personal/party political advantage. I'm not outraged at it, though. I've been saying for months that it was the logical thing for her to do. I'm only surprised she had any doubt about calling an election (if she did). With the economy not having tanked yet and Corbyn as an opponent, it's a no-brainer. It's dirty politics, but that's what successful politicians do. "What do you people want?" I'd like a proper vote in parliament and/or an election not now but in 18 months when any negotiated terms for Hard Brexit and/or any prospective trade deals are known and the likely consequences are evident. Obviously, I never expected to get that, because it wouldn't be in the interests of the Tory Govt to hand power to parliament or the people at a time when the country's going down the toilet. Instead, in 18 months time we'll all be sitting on the dole with Brexit looking like a pile of shite, no trade deals, public services being slashed and we'll be scratching our heads wondering why we thought May was such a great leader!? Still, at least Corbyn will be gone (surely?!) Meanwhile, here's some good news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39645885 "Former Conservative chancellor Ken Clarke is to stand again to be an MP in the 8 June general election".....a voice of sanity and competence in parliament. We don't know what she's going to get in negotiations and it's not in her gift to say she will get so we only know what she's asking for.If people vote conservative knowing what the conservatives intend to ask for now, they will have voted for hard brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 2 minutes ago, Buce said: Not even a bit like hate. Tactical voting should be a hate crime imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 Gisela Stuart is standing down at the election. Shame she was one of the heroes of brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 Just now, Webbo said: We don't know what she's going to get in negotiations and it's not in her gift to say she will get so we only know what she's asking for.If people vote conservative knowing what the conservatives intend to ask for now, they will have voted for hard brexit. Do you honestly think that, if Labour was led by Blair and was ahead in the polls, she'd have called an election? I'm sure you don't, because you're not an idiot and nor is May (even if Corbyn is!). If she wanted a stronger mandate for Brexit, she could have called another referendum. She wants to have more power in parliament and thinks (probably correctly) that she'll be able to get it, given the state of Labour and UKIP, and given that Brexit and its impact haven't happened yet. If people vote Tory (as I'm sure 40%+ will), a lot of them will have voted for "May, not Corbyn", not Hard Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said: Do you honestly think that, if Labour was led by Blair and was ahead in the polls, she'd have called an election? I'm sure you don't, because you're not an idiot and nor is May (even if Corbyn is!). If she wanted a stronger mandate for Brexit, she could have called another referendum. She wants to have more power in parliament and thinks (probably correctly) that she'll be able to get it, given the state of Labour and UKIP, and given that Brexit and its impact haven't happened yet. If people vote Tory (as I'm sure 40%+ will), a lot of them will have voted for "May, not Corbyn", not Hard Brexit. Obviously if the polls were tight she wouldn't have called the election. That's the advantage of being in power. Blair called elections when it was to his best advantage, it's nothing new. The broad plan for brexit will be in the manifesto, if she wins the election she has a mandate to do what she wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 5 minutes ago, Webbo said: Gisela Stuart is standing down at the election. Shame she was one of the heroes of brexit. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Birmingham Edgbaston (her constituency) is the posh bit of Brum, isn't it? I just checked and Edgbaston voted Remain overall.....saw the writing on the wall, maybe? I wonder if it'll just go back to the Tories or if the Lib Dems will have a surge there? Unlikely Labour will hold, I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 This election is going to be amazing. We have local elections 35 days before the general so we get a little preview of the Tory majority. The BBC graphics will have to change. You can't just have blue anymore for Tory. Is this Tory one who will definitely support Theresa in her Brexit plans she's keeping in the down-low? Or one that may join the hard Brexit lobby after she goes for a softer than the one she's currently claimed? Or an unknown Tory who's not had enough exposure to Parliament to know which would be the best lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: Obviously if the polls were tight she wouldn't have called the election. That's the advantage of being in power. Blair called elections when it was to his best advantage, it's nothing new. The broad plan for brexit will be in the manifesto, if she wins the election she has a mandate to do what she wants. If she wins, she'll be able to do what she wants - until she's next held to account by the electorate, after the reality of Brexit is apparent. She won't have a specific mandate for Hard Brexit, though. She'll have a general mandate to exercise power....and will be able to use that to TRY to negotiate whatever Brexit she wants (unless over-ruled by Parliament in 18 months time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxxed Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 1 hour ago, Webbo said: I have to smile at some of this outrage. It wasn't long ago that we were told that Theresa May had no mandate because she hadn't been elected by anyone. We were told that referendums were only used by dictators and big issues should be decided by parliament. We were told that nobody voted for hard brexit. This election will put all of that right but now were told that we shouldn't have one because it looks like she's going to win. What do you people want? No, she should definitely have it now. It's definitely the most favorable time to have it. She's knows it'll be crazy to have it in three years time. The fact she knows this about the future tells you what she thinks of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 Does the new redrawing of the political map come into play this election? Maybe that's why Osbourne held on, if he was aware it could be looming. I'm sure his seat vanishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 19 April 2017 Share Posted 19 April 2017 7 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: If she wins, she'll be able to do what she wants - until she's next held to account by the electorate, after the reality of Brexit is apparent. She won't have a specific mandate for Hard Brexit, though. She'll have a general mandate to exercise power....and will be able to use that to TRY to negotiate whatever Brexit she wants (unless over-ruled by Parliament in 18 months time). If she included hard brexit details in the manifesto she will have a mandate for it. I'm not sure how likely that is as it's unprecedented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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