Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, MattP said:

Even amendments being passed would be seen a defeat on this in my opinion, in reality it's a pretty basic bill, just bringing EU law into Britain so we can then let parliament decide on what they want to get rid off.

 

The only controversial thing should be the (brilliantly named) Henry VIII clauses, "a minor detail" according to certain politics and "sweeping powers" according to others.

I think the government have asked for trouble taking the route they have. Unless I'm not fully conversant with what they've gone for, surely having those powers but with full details of every decision taken being shared with parliament so that it can opt to scrutinise individual decisions further would be better? They need to find a middle ground is my point but instead the government seems to be risking it all on not offering that. 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

I think the government have asked for trouble taking the route they have. Unless I'm not fully conversant with what they've gone for, surely having those powers but with full details of every decision taken being shared with parliament so that it can opt to scrutinise individual decisions further would be better? They need to find a middle ground is my point but instead the government seems to be risking it all on not offering that. 

I don't really see what else they could do.

 

It's axiomatic that we need a bill to repatriate the law in full and the alter as starting from scratch would be impossible and ridiculously time consuming. 

[Strokes]

10 minutes ago, MattP said:

I don't really see what else they could do.

 

It's axiomatic that we need a bill to repatriate the law in full and the alter as starting from scratch would be impossible and ridiculously time consuming. 

Nobody who criticises it has suggested a workable alternative as far as I know. It's fine opposing something if there are options but in this case, there appear to be none.

[Guest MattP]

53 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Nobody who criticises it has suggested a workable alternative as far as I know. It's fine opposing something if there are options but in this case, there appear to be none.

I do think Labour are now going to become so obsessed with trying to defeat the government to try and force an election they will just end up opposing things for no reason at all.

 

Hope I'm wrong but that's the way it's going.

[Strokes]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

I do think Labour are now going to become so obsessed with trying to defeat the government to try and force an election they will just end up opposing things for no reason at all.

 

Hope I'm wrong but that's the way it's going.

The signs were there quite early on when you think back. Not long after the election result rumours surfaced of the governments intention to lift the cap on public sector pay rises and labour steam in, raise the bill, as to give them the limelight. They didn't care that the consequences could be that the cap would remain because of their actions.

Edited 4 September 2017 by Strokes

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

I don't really see what else they could do.

 

It's axiomatic that we need a bill to repatriate the law in full and the alter as starting from scratch would be impossible and ridiculously time consuming. 

 

48 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Nobody who criticises it has suggested a workable alternative as far as I know. It's fine opposing something if there are options but in this case, there appear to be none.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have the powers to make changes but a halfway house is needed where parliament gets an itemised list of decisions/changes and can review any it deems necessary. Clearly many changes to laws are needed to get the job done but there does need to be proper oversight. I don't think any party has a history of not trying to overreach and there does need to be safeguards against that. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Strokes said:

The signs were there quite early on when you think back. Not long after the election result rumours surfaced of the governments intention to lift the cap on public sector pay rises and labour steam in, raise the bill, as to give them the limelight. They didn't care that the consequences could be that the cap would remain because of their actions.

The end of the public sector cap will happen anyway. Despite losing, labours resurgence has taken the debate away from the tory right. Austerity cannot go on in all of the forms it has taken previously. There's no way that the tories aren't going to cede ground. Their market research will tell them what everybody else knows: labour's policies are popular. 

Edited 4 September 2017 by Guest

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

The end of the public sector cap will happen anyway. Despite losing, labours resurgence has taken the debate away from the tory right. Austerity cannot go on in all of the forms it has taken previously. There's no way that the tories aren't going to cede ground. Their market research will tell them what everybody else knows: labour's policies are popular. 

Good old Labour 

Only another 5 years to wait until they lose again 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Good old Labour 

Only another 5 years to wait until they lose again 

Maybe, maybe not. The fact it will move the tories towards the centre is all important atm though.

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

The end of the public sector cap will happen anyway. Despite losing, labours resurgence has taken the debate away from the tory right. Austerity cannot go on in all of the forms it has taken previously. There's no way that the tories aren't going to cede ground. Their market research will tell them what everybody else knows: labour's policies are popular. 

Who would have thought given away free stuff would be popular? 

 

No one knows what the situation is going to be in 2022 though, if Brexit had been as harsh financially on us as some say Labour will need a totally different approach. 

[Guest MattP]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/04/jeremy-corbyn-mulls-becoming-vegan-food-has-improved/

 

Odds on he'll be gender neutral by the end of 2018 as well.

[Strokes]

31 minutes ago, MattP said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/04/jeremy-corbyn-mulls-becoming-vegan-food-has-improved/

 

Odds on he'll be gender neutral by the end of 2018 as well.

Ms Corbyn has a ring to it.

[Guest MattP]

9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Ms Corbyn has a ring to it.

Introducing Labour's first female leader....Mrs Jeremy Corbyn.

 

It wouldn't be the craziest thing to happen in politics this last few years. 

[Carl the Llama]

45 minutes ago, MattP said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/04/jeremy-corbyn-mulls-becoming-vegan-food-has-improved/

 

Odds on he'll be gender neutral by the end of 2018 as well.

A telegraph article?  I'm disgusted, Matt, you should copy/paste the contents so we aren't forced to fund the establishment Tory racists.  Reeeeee.

 

 

I'm all for tailoring your diet to avoid contributing to the industrial farm horror show and I'll allow using that fact to gain political brownie points, but there's pandering to a demographic and there's sticking your tongue so needlessly far up their arsehole you can French kiss their partners.  The highlight for me was "there are quite a lot of vegan MPs actually - not a lot but there are some".

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

A telegraph article?  I'm disgusted, Matt, you should copy/paste the contents so we aren't forced to fund the establishment Tory racists.  Reeeeee.

 

I'm all for tailoring your diet to avoid contributing to the industrial farm horror show and I'll allow using that fact to gain political brownie points, but there's pandering to a demographic and there's sticking your tongue so needlessly far up their arsehole you can French kiss their partners.  The highlight for me was "there are quite a lot of vegan MPs actually - not a lot but there are some".

The last line is brilliant, the way he contradicts himself so often is hilarious. 

 

I should add though it's apparantly not true, he did say it but his spokesman now says he eats dairy and fish - http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/04/jeremy-corbyn-isnt-in-the-process-of-turning-vegan-after-all-6902065/

 

Just basically playing to an audience again before his office then tells us what he really meant. 

Edited 4 September 2017 by MattP

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, MattP said:

The last line is brilliant, the way he contradicts himself so often is hilarious. 

 

I should add though it's apparantly not true, he did say it but his spokesman now says he eats dairy and fish.

 

Just basically playing to an audience again before his office then tells is what he really meant. 

So basically it's a soy-based alternative to train-gate.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Carl the Llama said:

So basically it's a soy-based alternative to train-gate.

A quicker U-Turn than Teresa May could pull off.

 

I bet he would love to be vegan so he tell all his fans but just looking at him you can tell he loves full fat milk in his tea and I bet an omelette is the highlight of his day.

[Sharpe's Fox]

good for JC. We should all try to eat less meat; it's not a sustainable food source for 7-8bn people never mind more. That of course if you can live with the social stigma of the mental disorder of vegetarianism, according to Matt.

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

good for JC. We should all try to eat less meat; it's not a sustainable food source for 7-8bn people never mind more. That of course if you can live with the social stigma of the mental disorder of vegetarianism, according to Matt.

I'd rather cull people instead.

 

I barely eat anything but meat (minimum three times a day), most other things are so shit.

 

Genuinely couldn't give you the last meal I had that didn't involve it, probably a night when I had a crisp sandwich and went to bed.

[Webbo]

Just now, MattP said:

I'd rather cull people instead.

 

I barely eat anything but meat (minimum three times a day), most other things are so shit.

 

Genuinely couldn't give you the last meal I had that didn't involve it, probably a night when I had a crisp sandwich and went to bed.

Were the crisps meat flavoured?

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Webbo said:

Were the crisps meat flavoured?

Of course, Smoky Bacon.

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, MattP said:

A quicker U-Turn than Teresa May could pull off.

 

I bet he would love to be vegan so he tell all his fans but just looking at him you can tell he loves full fat milk in his tea and I bet an omelette is the highlight of his day.

I dunno why he even tries tbh - if you're that die-hard a vegan that a candidate's diet dictates how you vote then you're not going to be voting Tory anyway and there surely aren't enough of them to win over from the Greens and Libs to make pandering to them worthwhile anyway.

 

2 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

good for JC. We should all try to eat less meat; it's not a sustainable food source for 7-8bn people never mind more. That of course if you can live with the social stigma of the mental disorder of vegetarianism, according to Matt.

Absolumment.  You needn't even go full-on veggie to achieve it, just eat a lot more vegetarian meals and treat yourself to the more expensive, better reared animal products as your budget allows.

[Sharpe's Fox]

according to Matt having beans on toast means your complicit in the regressive mental evolution of the human race. Not sure who's the real mentalist here.

[Carl the Llama]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'd rather cull people instead.

 

I barely eat anything but meat (minimum three times a day), most other things are so shit.

 

Genuinely couldn't give you the last meal I had that didn't involve it, probably a night when I had a crisp sandwich and went to bed.

Just as well you aren't gay then, your colon must be a horror show.

[Innovindil]

What sort of a man willingly gives up steak?