Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

No. But if you fail to mention the ERM and then try to claim that a minor deficit in 2007 was the root cause I will rip the piss.

Well the one in the 90s was caused by world events and the one in 2008 was caused by bad govt decisions.

[Guest]

Just now, Webbo said:

Well the one in the 90s was caused by world events and the one in 2008 was caused by bad govt decisions.

Lmao

[Guest Kopfkino]

22 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Student of lse vs Professor of Economic Policy at the Blavatnik School of Government, Oxford University.

 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2017/09/04/why-brexit-has-led-to-falling-real-wages-in-the-uk/

 

I didn't say anything

 

My favourite part of this is you've effectively told us anything you say is irrelevant and you can't have an opinion or analyse data yourself because you know **** all compared to paid academics. The mods might as well close this thread to anything but academic debate and we should dissolve democracy and run an aristocracy instead. 

 

Edit: Besides the ONS said last month that nominal wages were rose at their highest rate since the crisis so how can SWL say there hasnt been an effect on nominal wages

Edited 6 November 2017 by KingGTF

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, KingGTF said:

 

I didn't say anything

 

My favourite part of this is you've effectively told us anything you say is irrelevant and you can't have an opinion or analyse data yourself because you know **** all compared to paid academics. The mods might as well close this thread to anything but academic debate and we should dissolve democracy and run an aristocracy instead. 

 

Edit: Besides the ONS said last month that nominal wages were rose at their highest rate since the crisis so how can SWL say there hasnt been an effect on nominal wages

It was a bit of a low blow tbf.

 

I just don't understand why people are arguing that wages are rising in real terms when the government's own figures show they arent.

Edited 6 November 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

US trade deal hinges on us doing what they tell us. The UK, taking back control...

 

Trump adviser Ross says UK-US trade deal will mean scrapping EU rules

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/06/trump-ross-says-uk-us-trade-deal-eu-brexit-chlorinated-chicken?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Edited 6 November 2017 by Guest

[Guest MattP]

So in addition to Labour avoiding paying tax on £4.3 million profits last year we find out yesterday they are also avoiding it on a million quid worth of rent costs and we see that the shadow chancellor himself has his pension tied up in an offshore account.

 

This the party people are voting for to stop tax avoidance? You can't make it up.

[Guest MattP]

9 hours ago, toddybad said:

US trade deal hinges on us doing what they tell us. The UK, taking back control...

 

Trump adviser Ross says UK-US trade deal will mean scrapping EU rules

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/06/trump-ross-says-uk-us-trade-deal-eu-brexit-chlorinated-chicken?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Here's a more balanced article of the same story and not the "It's a disaster, America is forcing us to do whatever they want" version that you'll find in The Guardian.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41888823

 

 

Quote

 

One of Donald Trump's leading allies has said he is optimistic that the UK and US will sign a free trade deal after Brexit.

US Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross also accused the European Union of being guilty of "extreme protectionism".

He said there had already been a "joint scoping exercise" in Washington in July on a free trade agreement between America and Britain.

And that another similar meeting will be held in London next week.

During his London visit over the last few days, Mr Ross has had meetings with the International Trade Secretary, Liam Fox; the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, and the Chancellor, Philip Hammond.

"There should be a free trade agreement [FTA] between us once the UK is on its own," Mr Ross told me.

 

 

[Innovindil]

Muh chlorinated chickens!? 

 

[Strokes]

30 minutes ago, MattP said:

Here's a more balanced article of the same story and not the "It's a disaster, America is forcing us to do whatever they want" version that you'll find in The Guardian.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41888823

 

 

 

I’m not convinced we should be linking anymore articles from the guardian newspaper anyway, with its blatant hypocrisy on tax avoidance.

#stopfundingcrooks

 

[Rogstanley]

Nice to see the bumbling lard arse Boris Johnson finally suggesting he might actually do something about his gaffe that left a woman facing five years in a foreign jail. What took you so long you cretinous oaf? Too worried about taking a hit to your own career? His fundamental lack of morality is matched in scale only by his disgusting rolls of chin fat.

[Strokes]

32 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Nice to see the bumbling lard arse Boris Johnson finally suggesting he might actually do something about his gaffe that left a woman facing five years in a foreign jail. What took you so long you cretinous oaf? Too worried about taking a hit to your own career? His fundamental lack of morality is matched in scale only by his disgusting rolls of chin fat.

It’s funny, I’ve just heard an interview on the radio with the ladys husband, he didn’t have much negative to say about the foreign secretary. And actually welcomed his involvement despite the gaffe.

Edited 7 November 2017 by Strokes

[Alf Bentley]

28 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

Nice to see the bumbling lard arse Boris Johnson finally suggesting he might actually do something about his gaffe that left a woman facing five years in a foreign jail. What took you so long you cretinous oaf? Too worried about taking a hit to your own career? 

 

I'm curious as to why he commented off-the-cuff that she was training journalists. It's not the sort of thing you'd normally make up - even someone who has as little respect for the truth as Boris.

Had he heard some unfounded gossip that he chose to repeat as you might if you were chatting informally in a pub? Might it be the inconvenient truth that she was training journalists and he gaffed by being honest for once? That would be ironic.

 

It occurs to me that he'd have been much better suited to a career as a TV presenter. Beyond a certain point, whatever the scenario his instinct is always to entertain, not to remain aware of political/diplomatic complications.

He is quite entertaining so would probably have been very good presenting humorous current affairs broadcasts on BBC2 or C4. He's desperately unsuited to being Foreign Secretary, though - even in the unlikely event that he told the truth this time. Not causing a difficult, paranoid nation to imprison your own citizens at a time of delicate diplomacy (Trump's withdrawal from Iran-West deal) is a pretty basic requirement for the job.

 

[katieakita]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

So in addition to Labour avoiding paying tax on £4.3 million profits last year we find out yesterday they are also avoiding it on a million quid worth of rent costs and we see that the shadow chancellor himself has his pension tied up in an offshore account.

 

This the party people are voting for to stop tax avoidance? You can't make it up.

That is mad bit like the government owned Post Office Paying £1 million in bonuses to management for reducing losses by £10 million and the Minister Margot James saying that they deserved it by reducing losses as it benefitted the taxpayer. The £11.6 million they avoided in paying National Insurance contributions clearly has no impact on treasury finances or government policy. 

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I'm curious as to why he commented off-the-cuff that she was training journalists. It's not the sort of thing you'd normally make up - even someone who has as little respect for the truth as Boris.

Had he heard some unfounded gossip that he chose to repeat as you might if you were chatting informally in a pub? Might it be the inconvenient truth that she was training journalists and he gaffed by being honest for once? That would be ironic.

 

It occurs to me that he'd have been much better suited to a career as a TV presenter. Beyond a certain point, whatever the scenario his instinct is always to entertain, not to remain aware of political/diplomatic complications.

He is quite entertaining so would probably have been very good presenting humorous current affairs broadcasts on BBC2 or C4. He's desperately unsuited to being Foreign Secretary, though - even in the unlikely event that he told the truth this time. Not causing a difficult, paranoid nation to imprison your own citizens at a time of delicate diplomacy (Trump's withdrawal from Iran-West deal) is a pretty basic requirement for the job.

 

I think she had been done for that in the past and he got his wires crossed. Or that’s what I took from what her husband was saying.

[Alf Bentley]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I think she had been done for that in the past and he got his wires crossed. Or that’s what I took from what her husband was saying.

 

Had she trained journalists in Iran in the past - or in the UK or wherever? I just heard that she'd worked for Reuters and the BBC and was on holiday in Iran, being of Iranian origin.

 

Either way, that is a serious gaffe if she was just there on holiday.

[Fox Ulike]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

Here's a more balanced article of the same story and not the "It's a disaster, America is forcing us to do whatever they want" version that you'll find in The Guardian.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41888823

 

 

 

 

Something isn’t balanced just because you happen to agree with it!

 

It seems sensible that if we replace the EU with the USA then we’ll start to abide by their set of rules on food standards etc in order to promote free trade. This isn't 'do what ever you want'. They'll be give and take on both sides, but the US will hold the upper hand.

 

So say hello to chlorinated chicken. Apparently it's only harmful if eaten in 'large quantities'!

 

British farmers will need to be able to chlorinate British chickens in order to compete with US farmers on this.

[katieakita]

So the Channel island based Barclay Brothers owners of the Torygraph are having a pop at people using the Channel islands for tax avoidance, Hello pot meet Mr Kettle

[Fox Ulike]

20 minutes ago, katieakita said:

So the Channel island based Barclay Brothers owners of the Torygraph are having a pop at people using the Channel islands for tax avoidance, Hello pot meet Mr Kettle

 

Yeah there’s going to be a lot of that about right now. Thing is, tax avoidance isn't illegal. You can’t really blame people simply for taking advantage of the system.

 

We just need to do something to make it much harder for mega-rich people to avoid paying tax. Simples.

[katieakita]

40 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said:

 

Yeah there’s going to be a lot of that about right now. Thing is, tax avoidance isn't illegal. You can’t really blame people simply for taking advantage of the system.

 

We just need to do something to make it much harder for mega-rich people to avoid paying tax. Simples.

Indeed the issue though some things may not be illegal but that does not make them right and loop holes have been exploited for far too long. More worrying is some of the dealings of HMRC

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Had she trained journalists in Iran in the past - or in the UK or wherever? I just heard that she'd worked for Reuters and the BBC and was on holiday in Iran, being of Iranian origin.

 

Either way, that is a serious gaffe if she was just there on holiday.

I’m not 100% certain Alf, I’ll link the radio interview later and you can have a listen. It sounded really interesting but I had a few external things distracting me from it, so I don’t want to say things that aren’t true.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Strokes said:

I’m not convinced we should be linking anymore articles from the guardian newspaper anyway, with its blatant hypocrisy on tax avoidance.

#stopfundingcrooks

 

Ideally you're probably right but unfortunately we wouldn't be able to have a proper debate with both sides of the argument being represented. Given that the Mirror is a comic, were stuck with the Guardian until another option presents itself.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Fox Ulike said:

 

Yeah there’s going to be a lot of that about right now. Thing is, tax avoidance isn't illegal. You can’t really blame people simply for taking advantage of the system.

 

We just need to do something to make it much harder for mega-rich people to avoid paying tax. Simples.

 

We need to make it harder for anybody to avoid paying proper taxes. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Fox Ulike said:

 

Something isn’t balanced just because you happen to agree with it!

 

It seems sensible that if we replace the EU with the USA then we’ll start to abide by their set of rules on food standards etc in order to promote free trade. This isn't 'do what ever you want'. They'll be give and take on both sides, but the US will hold the upper hand.

 

So say hello to chlorinated chicken. Apparently it's only harmful if eaten in 'large quantities'!

 

British farmers will need to be able to chlorinate British chickens in order to compete with US farmers on this.

I'll be going veggie then.

[Strokes]

24 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Ideally you're probably right but unfortunately we wouldn't be able to have a proper debate with both sides of the argument being represented. Given that the Mirror is a comic, were stuck with the Guardian until another option presents itself.

I’m just yanking your chain, there are plenty of reasons to ignore the guardian and it’s readership, this is not really one of them.

[Strokes]

Who will buy yank chicken anyway? I’d just look forward to the huge slabs of beef pumped full of growth hormones, the best steaks I’ve ever eaten have been in the USA. Gimmie that beef mmmmmmm.