Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Rogstanley]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

Did Tony Blair and Gordon Brown plan for a run a pound when Labour were set to win in 1997? Do you think Cameron and Osborne planned for one in 2010?

 

Of course they didn't, they didn't have to as they knew their policies wouldn't cause one. Intellectual dishonesty is claiming all competent governments would plan for this.

Perhaps they didn't, I don't know. If you're convinced, as I assume labour are, that your economic plans are solid but one of the shirt term risks is a run on the pound then you plan for it. Did the Tories plan for a backlash against cuts to disability benefits? Probably. Did that make cuts to disability benefits the wrong thing to do? Not in and of itself, no.

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, MattP said:

Did Tony Blair and Gordon Brown plan for a run a pound when Labour were set to win in 1997? Do you think Cameron and Osborne planned for one in 2010?

 

Of course they didn't, they didn't have to as they knew their policies wouldn't cause one. Intellectual dishonesty is claiming all competent governments would plan for this.

You're being dishonest about what he was saying and you know it.

 

Can you not think of anything you've voted for that caused a sudden drop of over 20% in the valuation of the pound and increasing inflation?

[Guest]

It really is about time that the firms were banned from working with HRMC on putting together tax codes when they spend their existence then sowing companies how to get around then with ridiculous schemes.

 

Paradise Papers reveal schemes used to avoid tax on UK property deals

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/08/paradise-papers-schemes-avoid-tax-uk-property-deals-chiswick-park-blackstone?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

[Brizzle Fox]

3 hours ago, toddybad said:

So you don't like Margaret Hodge then?

I neither like or dislike and she has undoubtedly done some good work as chair of the Public Accounts Committee, however I wouldnt hold her up as some paragon of virtue as this is something she is definitely not.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Brizzle Fox said:

I neither like or dislike and she has undoubtedly done some good work as chair of the Public Accounts Committee, however I wouldnt hold her up as some paragon of virtue as this is something she is definitely not.

I don't know much about her background, it wasn't a serious suggestion, but she has always seemed brilliant on select committees.

[lifted*fox]

****ing at the Conservative Party right now. 

 

Got themselves into a right mess. Patel going down, Johnson should go down except it's safer in May's eyes to keep him close.

 

Everyone shouting strong and stable but knifing each other at every opportunity. 

 

This government won't survive much longer - collapse soon come. 

[lifted*fox]

Quote

Stephen Pollard, editor of the Jewish Chronicle, has just told Sky News that he stands by his story about Theresa May knowing more about Priti Patel’s Israel meetings than Number 10 says, despite the strong denial from Downing Street. He said his two sources were “very reliable” and that they had never tried to spin him in the past.
 
Pollard made the point that Alistair Burt, a joint Foreign Office/DfID minister, was in Israel in the summer at the same time Patel was there on holiday. He said that Burt had an official meeting with someone from the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu’s, office and that at that meeting Burt was told Netanyahu had met Patel hours before. “So the idea that they didn’t know about the meeting, that no one knew about this meeting, is simply nonsense,” he said.

 

[Strokes]

13 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

Its pretty much all down to Pritti to confirm or deny these allegations, she could well shaft May now and they will both go.

[lifted*fox]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Its pretty much all down to Pritti to confirm or deny these allegations, she could well shaft May now and they will both go.

 

plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz 

 

 

come on Pritti - throw her under that big red ****ing bus 

Edited 8 November 2017 by lifted*fox

[lifted*fox]

man I bet she's been sweaty palmed as **** on that plane journey home. 

 

you'd be ****ing battering the free alcohol cart like it was the last drop of water in a dessert. 

[Izzy]

41 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

****ing at the Conservative Party right now. 

 

Got themselves into a right mess. Patel going down, Johnson should go down except it's safer in May's eyes to keep him close.

 

Everyone shouting strong and stable but knifing each other at every opportunity. 

 

This government won't survive much longer - collapse soon come. 

 

28 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

 

11 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

 

plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz plz 

 

 

come on Pritti - throw her under that big red ****ing bus 

 

Don't shoot your load just yet Daz! 

 

 

[lifted*fox]

I already have but give me a minute and I'll be good to go again. 

[Strokes]

If the government did get a vote of no confidence, before May got deposed, would they have time for a leadership change?

[lifted*fox]

has she landed yet. come on come on come on. 

 

if this threatens to end her career and May knew of the meetings and is using her as a scapegoat then surely she's going to squeal.

 

i hope she squeals. 

 

sqqqqqqqqueeeeeeeeeeeel. 

 

wasn't it Matt who had her down as next PM? 

[lifted*fox]

Edited 8 November 2017 by lifted*fox
bwahahaa

[bovril]

31 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

has she landed yet. come on come on come on. 

 

This is better than transfer deadline day. I half expect her to go to Wolves in a swap deal for Peter Odemwingie. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

Its pretty much all down to Pritti to confirm or deny these allegations, she could well shaft May now and they will both go.

 

41 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

has she landed yet. come on come on come on. 

 

if this threatens to end her career and May knew of the meetings and is using her as a scapegoat then surely she's going to squeal.

 

i hope she squeals. 

 

sqqqqqqqqueeeeeeeeeeeel. 

 

wasn't it Matt who had her down as next PM? 

According to “an ally” of Priti Patel’s quoted in a Telegraph story (paywall), the international development is not going to go down without a fight. The ally is quoted as saying:

[Patel is being made a scapegoat, it is not credible that the Foreign Office knew about these meetings but Downing Street did not. She left for Uganda after apologising and being told that she was safe - now they are bowing to pressure.

She is going to be pretty angry if she is sacked and she could do some pretty hard damage to Downing Street. No 10 is being naive, the prime minister will create an even bigger problem for herself if she sacks Priti.

[Izzy]

43 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

has she landed yet. come on come on come on. 

 

if this threatens to end her career and May knew of the meetings and is using her as a scapegoat then surely she's going to squeal.

 

i hope she squeals. 

 

sqqqqqqqqueeeeeeeeeeeel. 

 

wasn't it Matt who had her down as next PM? 

I do hope you're not one of the 22,000 sad cvnts out there who are apparently tracking this plane 

[Strokes]

9 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 

According to “an ally” of Priti Patel’s quoted in a Telegraph story (paywall), the international development is not going to go down without a fight. The ally is quoted as saying:

[Patel is being made a scapegoat, it is not credible that the Foreign Office knew about these meetings but Downing Street did not. She left for Uganda after apologising and being told that she was safe - now they are bowing to pressure.

She is going to be pretty angry if she is sacked and she could do some pretty hard damage to Downing Street. No 10 is being naive, the prime minister will create an even bigger problem for herself if she sacks Priti.

James O'Brien on LBC said that the guy from the from the Jewish chronicle is meticulous and would not have put this out if he wasnt 100% confident in his sources credibility. Although O'Brien is notoriously anti tory, he is usually pretty straight.

Its all over to Priti now.

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

If the government did get a vote of no confidence, before May got deposed, would they have time for a leadership change?

There is absolutely no chance of a vote of no confidence, if the situation got anywhere near that the Tories will just change the leader and try and new cabinet before going down that road, they aren't going to vote down their own government, certainly not in the middle of Brexit talks and while Labour lead in the polls.

 

If Priti is going I think she'll have to balance the appointment wiht another leaver though, expect some backbench pressure for that.

[Guest MattP]

6 hours ago, toddybad said:

You're being dishonest about what he was saying and you know it.

 

Can you not think of anything you've voted for that caused a sudden drop of over 20% in the valuation of the pound and increasing inflation?

I'm not at all, he said they will plan for a run on the pound while he was peddling his Trump-like conspiracy theories about investors "coming" for a Labour government.

 

Good shout on the question , given most of my income comes in from Australia that was just an unexpected bonus of the Brexit vote that I hadn't expected, paid for the Champions League trips that.

Edited 8 November 2017 by MattP

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, MattP said:

There is absolutely no chance of a vote of no confidence, if the situation got anywhere near that the Tories will just change the leader and try and new cabinet before going down that road, they aren't going to vote down their own government, certainly not in the middle of Brexit talks and while Labour lead in the polls.

 

If Priti is going I think she'll have to balance the appointment wiht another leaver though, expect some backbench pressure for that.

Rumours going astound about nikki Morgan being brought back with the benefit that she might not for against the Brexit bill if in the inner circle

 

12 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'm not at all, he said they will plan for a run on the pound while he was peddling his Trump-like conspiracy theories about investors "coming" for a Labour government.

 

Good shout on the question , given most of my income comes in from Australia that was just an unexpected bonus of the Brexit vote that I hadn't expected, paid for the Champions League trips that.

Labour are planning for a run because the markets might get a little flighty about a left wing government as they are historically fans of right wing governments.

 

Ask yourself, if you were planning for this eventuality what would it involve? It would involve pro-business initiatives in an attempt to win trust or at least be given a chance. Seems sensible to me. 

 

It's certainly more sensible than a government holding a referendum and not planning for a leave vote which has led to compete chaos in government ever since.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, toddybad said:

Labour are planning for a run because the markets might get a little flighty about a left wing government as they are historically fans of right wing governments.

 

Ask yourself, if you were planning for this eventuality what would it involve? It would involve pro-business initiatives in an attempt to win trust or at least be given a chance. Seems sensible to me.

I think I've asked you this five times and never received a reply.

 

There are only two things you can really do if you are hit with a run on the pound and want to negate it, introduce capital controls or raise interest rates to very high levels - both of those things would be almost impossible hence why I'm so interested in hearing what they would do, I'd love someone to ask McDonnell but he seems to have done a vanishing act since the conference.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, MattP said:

I think I've asked you this five times and never received a reply.

 

There are only two things you can really do if you are hit with a run on the pound and want to negate it, introduce capital controls or raise interest rates to very high levels - both of those things would be almost impossible hence why I'm so interested in hearing what they would do, I'd love someone to ask McDonnell but he seems to have done a vanishing act since the conference.

I've just told you - immediately (by which I mean in the victory speech) introduce a raft of pro business measures to try to recover the losses asap. 

 

Perhaps cutting business rates, introducing some sort of small business investment vehicle, giving business a voice in education and training. 

 

They don't need to make up for higher corporation tax but they do need to show business that believing in nationalisation in a handful of industries doesn't mean they are anti-business in others.

 

I suspect this is why you see press releases giving much more nuanced messaging whenever McDonnell threatens to rip up PFI contracts or similar.

 

To keep their inferred promises to the people they need to stop business running amok, expecting minimal tax rates, the state topping up poor wages and an ability to move money into tax havens, whilst at the same time showing that if business acts more ethically it will get full support.

 

Corbyn's speech to the CBI yesterday basically tried to do both of these things.

 

It won't be easy but changes are needed.

Edited 8 November 2017 by Guest

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

I've just told you - immediately introduce a raft of pro business measures to try to recover the losses asap. 

 

Perhaps cutting business rates, introducing some sort of small business investment vehicle, giving business a voice in education and training. 

 

They don't need to make up for higher corporation tax but they do need to show business that believing in nationalisation in a handful of industries doesn't mean they are anti-business in others.

 

I suspect this is why you see press releases giving much more nuanced messaging whenever McDonnell threatens to rip up PFI contracts or similar.

 

To keep their inferred promises to the people they need to stop business running amok, expecting minimal tax rates, the state topping up poor wages and an ability to move money into tax havens, whilst at the same time showing that if business acts more ethically it will get full support.

 

Corbyn's speech to the CBI yesterday basically tried to do both of these things.

 

It won't be easy but changes are needed.

So he's going to stand on a manifesto of raising business rates etc and then as soon as he's elected cancel them all as to avoid on a run on the pound?

 

If you can tell me in any way how he's going to stop people moving money to tax havens I'd love to hear it (sadly even he did have some magical plan it will be irrelevent anyway as if he's on course to win anyone planning to do it will have done before he takes office) - is he going to invade the Carribean?

 

I'm still baffled as to where I have lied either, I said Labour were planning for a run, you've now said Labour are planning for a run. We seem to be in agreement that they will be.

 

Glad you mentioned his speech to the CBI.. - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/11/06/businesses-reject-jeremy-corbyns-wooing-warn-would-trash-britains/

 

The CBI welcomed his ideas to promote clarity in the Brexit process, and also agreed in principle that more infrastructure investment is needed.

It is clear that competitive markets are the best way to improve people’s livesCarolyn Fairbairn, CBI

But the business group warned that Mr Corbyn had reached the wrong policy conclusions.

"There are fundamental differences on the ways to get there," said Carolyn Fairbairn, the CBI's director general.

“It is clear that competitive markets are the best way to improve people’s lives. Abandoning this model will hurt those who need help most and make the UK a laggard in the global race for investment."

"Both businesses and Labour are determined to find ways to lift productivity and improve living standards in communities across the UK. Proposals on skills, innovation and infrastructure have potential, and these should be refined hand-in-hand with responsible business to ensure they are funded in a way that doesn’t cost jobs," Ms Fairbairn said.

"Labour should recognise that their vision of significant state intervention including nationalisation, PFI and government procurement, would undermine such ambitions."

 

As I've said before, tried and failed policies that only those that haven't seen them in action before will vote for.