Webbo Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 3 minutes ago, Strokes said: Who will buy yank chicken anyway? I’d just look forward to the huge slabs of beef pumped full of growth hormones, the best steaks I’ve ever eaten have been in the USA. Gimmie that beef mmmmmmm. When you go to Tenerife there's an Argentine steak house on every street. Best steak you'll ever taste. I really hope we gt that here after Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 6 minutes ago, Strokes said: Who will buy yank chicken anyway? I’d just look forward to the huge slabs of beef pumped full of growth hormones, the best steaks I’ve ever eaten have been in the USA. Gimmie that beef mmmmmmm. When you turn purple and start wasting away from all them chemicals don't come crying to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 Welsh politician suspended on Friday has killed himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 5 hours ago, MattP said: Here's a more balanced article of the same story and not the "It's a disaster, America is forcing us to do whatever they want" version that you'll find in The Guardian. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41888823 I think we've talked about this before...I know we'll likely disagree on this but if anyone thinks the current US administration has anything on their mind barring themselves and a subset of their population (despite the words here) then I have a bridge to sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: I think we've talked about this before...I know we'll likely disagree on this but if anyone thinks the current US administration has anything on their mind barring themselves and a subset of their population (despite the words here) then I have a bridge to sell them. There's nothing wrong with self interest, obviously they want a trade deal that benefits them as well as us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: There's nothing wrong with self interest, obviously they want a trade deal that benefits them as well as us. They want one that benefits them as much as possible - the UK can take a hike. There are voters in rural areas that need to be kept on board, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 27 minutes ago, Strokes said: Who will buy yank chicken anyway? I’d just look forward to the huge slabs of beef pumped full of growth hormones, the best steaks I’ve ever eaten have been in the USA. Gimmie that beef mmmmmmm. Proper brisket. /drool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 5 minutes ago, leicsmac said: They want one that benefits them as much as possible - the UK can take a hike. There are voters in rural areas that need to be kept on board, after all. You're being silly. Why would we agree to anything that makes us worse off? If we can sell them more stuff that's good for us. If we can buy stuff cheaper than before that's good too. Free trade's a win win for everyone. Just because you don't like Trump you're letting it cloud your judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 8 minutes ago, Webbo said: You're being silly. Why would we agree to anything that makes us worse off? If we can sell them more stuff that's good for us. If we can buy stuff cheaper than before that's good too. Free trade's a win win for everyone. Just because you don't like Trump you're letting it cloud your judgement. I'm hoping that we don't and that the UK is prepared to seriously negotiate/walk away if needed. Of course you're right in that I don't like Trump or his administration or a big swathe of his supporters...but the idea that he's putting "America First" and that will have an effect on trade policy amongst other things (especially as he's relying on voters in key areas to prop him up) is hardly a secret, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 26 minutes ago, leicsmac said: When you turn purple and start wasting away from all them chemicals don't come crying to us Dying happy or living miserable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 Just now, leicsmac said: I'm hoping that we don't and that the UK is prepared to seriously negotiate/walk away if needed. Of course you're right in that I don't like Trump or his administration or a big swathe of his supporters...but the idea that he's putting "America First" and that will have an effect on trade policy amongst other things (especially as he's relying on voters in key areas to prop him up) is hardly a secret, is it? Asda don't sell me my groceries because they're worried about my diet and I don't shop there because I think Mr Walmart is a smashing bloke. Its a transaction with benefits for both sides. That's how trade works. I don't expect anyone to do us any favours. If it boosts our economy what do I care if some American farmers who might have voted for Trump benefit too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 3 minutes ago, Strokes said: Dying happy or living miserable 1 minute ago, Webbo said: Asda don't sell me my groceries because they're worried about my diet and I don't shop there because I think Mr Walmart is a smashing bloke. Its a transaction with benefits for both sides. That's how trade works. I don't expect anyone to do us any favours. If it boosts our economy what do I care if some American farmers who might have voted for Trump benefit too? If it boosts our economy, yes. Like I said, I'm unconvinced that whatever the US offers the UK (at least at first) will necessarily do that and the UK will be pressured to take a bad deal in the name of getting any deal at all and because they have bigger trading power than the UK does. In light of that, as I also said before, I'm hoping the UK have their negotiating hats on and are possibly prepared to walk away rather than take a bad deal if that's all the US end up offering in the end (which is a possibility). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 Just now, leicsmac said: If it boosts our economy, yes. Like I said, I'm unconvinced that whatever the US offers the UK (at least at first) will necessarily do that and the UK will be pressured to take a bad deal in the name of getting any deal at all and because they have bigger trading power than the UK does. In light of that, as I also said before, I'm hoping the UK have their negotiating hats on and are possibly prepared to walk away rather than take a bad deal if that's all the US end up offering in the end (which is a possibility). What's the worst that can happen? We continue to sell them what we sell them now and get the chance to buy stuff we already buy cheaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 22 minutes ago, leicsmac said: I'm hoping that we don't and that the UK is prepared to seriously negotiate/walk away if needed. Of course you're right in that I don't like Trump or his administration or a big swathe of his supporters...but the idea that he's putting "America First" and that will have an effect on trade policy amongst other things (especially as he's relying on voters in key areas to prop him up) is hardly a secret, is it? He will tell them it’s a great deal and they will lap it up. That’s the usual narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 1 hour ago, Webbo said: When you go to Tenerife there's an Argentine steak house on every street. Best steak you'll ever taste. I really hope we gt that here after Brexit. No need to wait, Webbo: http://fiestadelasado.co.uk/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 6 minutes ago, Webbo said: What's the worst that can happen? We continue to sell them what we sell them now and get the chance to buy stuff we already buy cheaper? Not exactly - they try to change the existing deals too, raise the prices on what we already buy (to give their farmers etc a bigger cut) and try to lower the prices on what we're selling. Based on the idea of course that they have bigger clout than the UK do, that they can get a better deal for themselves and it would be very difficult for the UK to walk away entirely. 1 minute ago, Strokes said: He will tell them it’s a great deal and they will lap it up. That’s the usual narrative. Ha, that's a fair point. As long as it doesn't hit them in the wallets right away, anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: I think we've talked about this before...I know we'll likely disagree on this but if anyone thinks the current US administration has anything on their mind barring themselves and a subset of their population (despite the words here) then I have a bridge to sell them. We have and I'll say again, a trade deal should be good for both sides, that's what we should be aiming for with everybody, if it isn't, we don't sign it. Stokes does a have point though, Trump will tell his supporters whether the deal is good or not that it's great and his fans will lap it up, the Dems will tell everyone whether the deal is good or note that's it's awful and everyone who hates Trump will lap it up. That's American politics now. People have taken a side and they'll stick to it whatever the facts are. 19 minutes ago, Buce said: No need to wait, Webbo: http://fiestadelasado.co.uk/ Cheers, I was looking around to book a place in Birmingham for next week, this looks perfect. That 20z flat Iron steak looks stunning. Edited 7 November 2017 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 1 minute ago, MattP said: We have and I'll say again, a trade deal should be good for both sides, that's what we should be aiming for with everybody, if it isn't, we don't sign it. Stokes does a have point though, Trump will tell his supporters whether the deal is good or not that it's great and his fans will lap it up, the Dems will tell everyone whether the deal is good or note that's it's awful and everyone who hates Trump will lap it up. That's American politics now. People have taken a side and they'll stick to it whatever the facts are. Cheers, I was looking around to book a place in Birmingham for next week, this looks perfect. That 20z flat Iron steak looks perfect. Yeah, no disagreement there - I just hope the UK is prepared to walk, as I've said. The US has its sides and that's pretty well entrenched so it's what the UK gets out of it (or not) is the thing that's going to be interesting on this one. One caveat that I might raise, however, is that if the Trump administration does get a deal that affects their voting base adversely (or even doesn't benefit them as much as they want), even if he says it's a good deal and they believe him now (which they will) if it then turns out to be not as good materially for them it could come back to bite them at the ballot box - ergo, the US might not want to take that chance and so will want to make sure the deal is actually good for them...and so not so good for the UK. That steak does look damn good though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Yeah, no disagreement there - I just hope the UK is prepared to walk, as I've said. The US has its sides and that's pretty well entrenched so it's what the UK gets out of it (or not) is the thing that's going to be interesting on this one. One caveat that I might raise, however, is that if the Trump administration does get a deal that affects their voting base adversely (or even doesn't benefit them as much as they want), even if he says it's a good deal and they believe him now (which they will) if it then turns out to be not as good materially for them it could come back to bite them at the ballot box - ergo, the US might not want to take that chance and so will want to make sure the deal is actually good for them...and so not so good for the UK. That steak does look damn good though It certainly does, tough choice between that and the new Gaucho that has gone up which also looks pretty nice. http://www.gauchorestaurants.com/restaurants/birmingham/ My man in Texas knows a lot of Trump supporters and he seems to think not a single Trump voter will give a shit about a trade deal with Britain, they want less immigration, less foreign wars, a big wall going up and kickass rhetoric. I just can't see his loyal voting base turning on him for anything, let alone the intricacies of commerce documentation with us. Edited 7 November 2017 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 Trump is no fool. He'll know the Tories are desperate for a 'trade deal with US agreed' headline and both he and the Tories are also just about smart enough to know most people won't look past that headline. That's how it's very likely we'll get to a point where Trump successfully screws us in the detail and the Tories agree to it for political reasons. You can tell Trump is already excited by the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 17 minutes ago, MattP said: It certainly does, tough choice between that and the new Gaucho that has gone up which also looks pretty nice. http://www.gauchorestaurants.com/restaurants/birmingham/ My man in Texas knows a lot of Trump supporters and he seems to think not a single Trump voter will give a shit about a trade deal with Britain, they want less immigration, less foreign wars, a big wall going up and kickass rhetoric. I just can't see his loyal voting base turning on him for anything, let alone the intricacies of commerce documentation with us. Depends on how hard they get hit in the wallet IMO, but yeah, that's broadly true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: Not exactly - they try to change the existing deals too, raise the prices on what we already buy (to give their farmers etc a bigger cut) and try to lower the prices on what we're selling. Based on the idea of course that they have bigger clout than the UK do, that they can get a better deal for themselves and it would be very difficult for the UK to walk away entirely. Ha, that's a fair point. As long as it doesn't hit them in the wallets right away, anyway. Why would we sign a FTA that made trade less free? You're being paranoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 1 minute ago, Webbo said: Why would we sign a FTA that made trade less free? You're being paranoid. I think I'm repeating myself here but I'm not saying that we have to sign anything at all - I'd be happy for us to walk away if a good deal can't be agreed. My point is given the nationalistic and US-centric behaviour of this administration, they're more likely to offer the UK a bad deal than a good one in the name of appealing to special interest groups within the US, where the trade is still free in terms of availability...just more expensive. I guess we'll find out, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 13 minutes ago, Webbo said: Why would we sign a FTA that made trade less free? You're being paranoid. There has been no suggestion at all that we'll get a free trade agreement with the US. It won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 7 November 2017 Share Posted 7 November 2017 4 minutes ago, leicsmac said: I think I'm repeating myself here but I'm not saying that we have to sign anything at all - I'd be happy for us to walk away if a good deal can't be agreed. My point is given the nationalistic and US-centric behaviour of this administration, they're more likely to offer the UK a bad deal than a good one in the name of appealing to special interest groups within the US, where the trade is still free in terms of availability...just more expensive. I guess we'll find out, though. Trump doesn't set the farm prices. All that a govt can do is set the tariffs and the regulations that need to be followed. Businesses sell to businesses, nothing to do with the govt. If the things we buy become more expensive, businesses in this country will buy from elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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