Guest Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 1 minute ago, Strokes said: If the avoidance is legal, yes it is. Presumably you'll never have any concerns about huge sums tucked overseas by the super wealthy? Why would you want to deprive the state of income so that it had to privatise more assets which you subsequently have to pay to use? You don't actually benefit from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 With all this overtime there'll be less need for zero hour contracts as well. It's a win win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Webbo said: I'm sorry, there's no point arguing with you on what you assume will happen. The only thing you need to apologise for is the absolutely tragic state of that cop out. Edited 17 December 2017 by Rogstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: Edited 17 December 2017 by Rogstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 11 minutes ago, Strokes said: Just thinking of this eu directive, what about nurses nights on shift? It’s common for them to be scheduled 7, 12 hours nights in a row and has been for over 10 years. They don’t get a choice, it doesn’t seem like that directive was working much anyway. The EU directive means that an employer cannot have any number of hours they like in a standard week. They don't. Nurses get all manner of enhancements to their wage when working different shifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 There won't be overtime. There will be nothing stopping an employer settomg a normal week at 60 hours of they wish. They'll set it to their needs so overtime isn't required. Workers won't gain from having less rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 3 minutes ago, toddybad said: Presumably you'll never have any concerns about huge sums tucked overseas by the super wealthy? Why would you want to deprive the state of income so that it had to privatise more assets which you subsequently have to pay to use? You don't actually benefit from this. What the rich do legally with their money is of no interest to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 10 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: The only thing you need to apologise for is the absolutely tragic state of that cop out. I'm not arguing with things that exist in your fevered imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 7 minutes ago, toddybad said: There won't be overtime. There will be nothing stopping an employer settomg a normal week at 60 hours of they wish. They'll set it to their needs so overtime isn't required. Workers won't gain from having less rights. I'm pretty sure that's bollox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 34 minutes ago, Webbo said: Can you show me where it says overtime will be compulsory. I need a bit more than your bigoted assumptions. 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: I'm pretty sure that's bollox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: I'm not arguing with things that exist in your fevered imagination. I didn't ask you to do that and nor do i particularly want to 'argue' with you. You asked a question, I answered it. But you clearly had designs on trying to make out that this isn't a serious issue on the basis of overtime not being compulsory. Now you've learned that overtime can be made compulsory you're making a separate excuse to slink away from the conversation. It's pretty weak stuff. Edited 17 December 2017 by Rogstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 3 minutes ago, Buce said: But that's not an assumption. there are laws which govern the working week that have existed before we were in the EU. I know in the building trade that the hours were cut from a 40 hour week to 39 while I was still an apprentice, long before the working time directive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 10 minutes ago, Strokes said: What the rich do legally with their money is of no interest to me. What about what people do with their legal welfare payments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 4 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: I didn't ask you to do that and nor do i particularly want to 'argue' with you. You asked a question, I answered it. But you clearly had designs on trying to make out that this isn't a serious issue on the basis of overtime not being compulsory. Now you've learned that overtime can be made compulsory you're making a separate excuse to slink away from the conversation. It's pretty weak stuff. You answered it with your ridiculous assumption. We had working week regulations before we were in the EU. You seriously think in a democracy were govts can be voted out of office any party would change the law to allow employers to force you to work for free? Anybody not blinded by hate could see that's a non starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: What about what people do with their legal welfare payments? So long as it’s legal, no. Why should I care? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 1 minute ago, Webbo said: You answered it with your ridiculous assumption. We had working week regulations before we were in the EU. You seriously think in a democracy were govts can be voted out of office any party would change the law to allow employers to force you to work for free? Anybody not blinded by hate could see that's a non starter. It doesn't require a change in the law. I already work for free whenever I do more than my contracted 40 hours per week, which thankfully for me is only occasionally but I know plenty of people who do it most weeks. You would hope that the democratic process would ensure no government could abandon workers rights but I'm not so sure. If the last seven years of failure have taught us anything it's that people will put up with a lot of incompetence as long as it means they don't have to admit they were wrong and switch their political allegiance. I mean already, you Tory lot on here are trying every angle possible to make this seem like a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 4 minutes ago, Strokes said: So long as it’s legal, no. Why should I care? I quite agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: I quite agree. So why do you care what people do with their money, when they are perceived to be wealthy? They are presumably just following advice of a professional, paid to take care of their finances? Edited 17 December 2017 by Strokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: It doesn't require a change in the law. I already work for free whenever I do more than my contracted 40 hours per week, which thankfully for me is only occasionally but I know plenty of people who do it most weeks. You would hope that the democratic process would ensure no government could abandon workers rights but I'm not so sure. If the last seven years of failure have taught us anything it's that people will put up with a lot of incompetence as long as it means they don't have to admit they were wrong and switch their political allegiance. I mean already, you Tory lot on here are trying every angle possible to make this seem like a non-issue. So this already happens under the guidance of our benevolent overlords in the EU? What are you moaning about then? I'm not trying to make it seem like a non issue, it is a non issue. I know very well you'll still manage to convince yourself we're living in some dystopian nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Webbo said: So this already happens under the guidance of our benevolent overlords in the EU? What are you moaning about then? I'm not trying to make it seem like a non issue, it is a non issue. I know very well you'll still manage to convince yourself we're living in some dystopian nightmare. Christ, really? If you're going to contribute to a discussion about the working time directive you could at least come prepared with a clue as to what it actually is. Among other things the working time directive puts an upper limit on the number of hours that employees can be made to work. The limit is 48 hours on average while my contract is for 40, so yes I can be made to work up to 8 hours per week for free. Removing the working time directive would mean I could be forced to work 18 hours extra for free, or 28 hours, or 80. There would be no limit. Edited 17 December 2017 by Rogstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 5 minutes ago, Webbo said: So this already happens under the guidance of our benevolent overlords in the EU? What are you moaning about then? I'm not trying to make it seem like a non issue, it is a non issue. I know very well you'll still manage to convince yourself we're living in some dystopian nightmare. At present if your employer asks you to work a 50 hour week, you can say no, I'll work my contracted hours, and they can't legally dismiss you for refusing to work that overtime - without the WTD, there's no protections for employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: Christ, really? If you're going to contribute to a discussion about the working time directive you could at least come prepared with a clue as to what it actually is. Among other things the working time directive puts an upper limit on the number of hours that employees can be made to work. The limit is 48 hours on average while my contract is for 40, do yes I can be made to work up to 8 hours per week for free. Removing the working time directive would mean I could be forced to work 18 hours extra for free, or 28 hours, or 80. There would be no limit. There would be a limit, they can’t make you work 25 hours a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 6 minutes ago, Strokes said: So why do you care what people do with their money, when they are perceived to be wealthy? They are presumably just following advice of a professional, paid to take care of their finances? I don't care what they do with it once it's legally theirs. I care about tax rates and enforcement and making sure the amount of tax people pay is fairly proportionate to the amount they earn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: I don't care what they do with it once it's legally theirs. I care about tax rates and enforcement and making sure the amount of tax people pay is fairly proportionate to the amount they earn. Me too, I think I should pay less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 17 December 2017 Share Posted 17 December 2017 2 minutes ago, Strokes said: There would be a limit, they can’t make you work 25 hours a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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