leicsmac Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 12 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: There are a number of credible theories and I'm more than happy to concede any of them may or may not be correct. What I tend to argue against in this thread are views that have no basis in any accepted theory whatsoever. I don't know what more important issues you are referring to but i suspect the reason they aren't being discussed as much is that there isn't as much to discuss. If an issue is cut and dried then what else is there to say? That's a very fair point - you're only going to get debate about something where a debate still exists, after all. That being said, the action or inaction of a government regarding such issues - energy and environmental policy is one that jumps into my head right away, along with foreign policy decisions, perhaps - is something that might be talked about. It just strikes me that such a nebulous field as economics is going to just result in neither consensus nor a clear "winner" (not that there has to be) of a debate, but then that's a staple of FT discussion anyway so... .
Guest MattP Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42689597 Guardian finally adopts a tabloid design. Any opinion on here over it? Only the Torygraph and Sunday Times now using the old broadsheet format.
Buce Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 14 minutes ago, MattP said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42689597 Guardian finally adopts a tabloid design. Any opinion on here over it? Only the Torygraph and Sunday Times now using the old broadsheet format. I hate it. If I wanted a tabloid, I'd buy one.
Guest MattP Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Buce said: I hate it. If I wanted a tabloid, I'd buy one. Can't imagine it being popular with it's readers at all.
Webbo Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 7 hours ago, Rogstanley said: Point made then. Why do you keep going on about the eurozone? Is the eurozone comparable to the UK? Not really, but Germany is. You're picking and choosing examples that you think make your point. It's like me saying all Algerians are great dribblers because look, Riyad Mahrez. If you insist on talking about Germany if you look at this graph; And compare it to this graph; https://www.statista.com/statistics/375203/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-germany/ You'll see that the UK out performed Germany from 2012 to 2015 and was only slightly behind in 2016.
Rogstanley Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 1 hour ago, Webbo said: If you insist on talking about Germany if you look at this graph; And compare it to this graph; https://www.statista.com/statistics/375203/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-germany/ You'll see that the UK out performed Germany from 2012 to 2015 and was only slightly behind in 2016. Germany's growth has been significantly higher since the financial crisis and they'e done it without giving all their citizens a massive pay cut like has happened here. I know where I'd rather be an employee.
Webbo Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 4 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Germany's growth has been significantly higher since the financial crisis and they'e done it without giving all their citizens a massive pay cut like has happened here. I know where I'd rather be an employee. Higher than what?
Rogstanley Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Higher than what? The UK.
Webbo Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: The UK. Did you look at that graph?
Rogstanley Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 Just now, Webbo said: Did you look at that graph? Yes
Webbo Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Yes Year UK Ger 2012 1,5, 0,69 2013 1.3, 0.6 2014 1.9,1.93 2015 3.1, 1.5 2016 2.2. 1,86 5 year average UK 2% Ger 1.1% Now if you can find any evidence of better growth in Germany since 2010 I'm happy to read it.
Strokes Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 17 minutes ago, Webbo said: Year UK Ger 2012 1,5, 0,69 2013 1.3, 0.6 2014 1.9,1.93 2015 3.1, 1.5 2016 2.2. 1,86 5 year average UK 2% Ger 1.1% Now if you can find any evidence of better growth in Germany since 2010 I'm happy to read it. Germany also runs a surplus, maybe we should try that.
Rogstanley Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 17 minutes ago, Webbo said: Year UK Ger 2012 1,5, 0,69 2013 1.3, 0.6 2014 1.9,1.93 2015 3.1, 1.5 2016 2.2. 1,86 5 year average UK 2% Ger 1.1% Now if you can find any evidence of better growth in Germany since 2010 I'm happy to read it. Fair enough yes, I was getting confused because yesterday you were for some reason talking about the year after the crash and Germany's growth was much stronger in 2009. In fact since the crash UK GDP growth has been marginally higher than Germany. I still know where I'd rather be an employee though, since you're all about graphs today just look at the state of this one. It's embarrassing to be honest, and things have actually got even worse since the end of this data set.
Webbo Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 19 hours ago, Rogstanley said: Also please explain how the fact that Germany’s growth post recession was much, much stronger than ours doesn’t show that absolutely everything you have said on this subject today is completely fabricated, hopeless bollocks? Really?
Sharpe's Fox Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 (edited) Egg and beans edit: wrong thread Edited 15 January 2018 by Sharpe's Fox 1
Rogstanley Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 Just now, Webbo said: Really? Exactly, I was referring to 2009 as you had specifically talked about the year after the crash.
Webbo Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 On 14/01/2018 at 18:15, Rogstanley said: I used 2010 because that's the year the conservatives came to power and 'middling' relates to how UK growth compares to other countries. It's actually a very generous description. Everything you have said on this subject today is completely fabricated, hopeless bollocks?
Rogstanley Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 Just now, Webbo said: Everything you have said on this subject today is completely fabricated, hopeless bollocks? Why do you keep going back and quoting posts I made ages ago? I've conceded that GDP growth in the UK has been marginally stronger than in Germany since the crash. So take that as some sort of victory if you want, but I've also said many times that I couldn't care less about GDP because unless you're talking massive swings it's makes no difference whatsoever to how well an economy is serving its people. For that you look at things like wage growth, for which the uk is pretty much the worst country on the planet. You were talking hopeless bollocks when you were on about economic cycles. You admitted as much when you said that you couldn't explain how that was supposed to prove whatever point you were making.
Webbo Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: Why do you keep going back and quoting posts I made ages ago? I've conceded that GDP growth in the UK has been marginally stronger than in Germany since the crash. So take that as some sort of victory if you want, but I've also said many times that I couldn't care less about GDP because unless you're talking massive swings it's makes no difference whatsoever to how well an economy is serving its people. For that you look at things like wage growth, for which the uk is pretty much the worst country on the planet. You were talking hopeless bollocks when you were on about economic cycles. You admitted as much when you said that you couldn't explain how that was supposed to prove whatever point you were making. LMAO 2
Guest MattP Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 This debate has been an absolute massacre. Go and have a lie down Roger.
Guest MattP Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 @Sharpe's Fox When you said Chris Williamson was going to be turning up to take away people's second homes is he going to start with himself? http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/derby-mp-chris-williamson-admits-1068348
Rogstanley Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, MattP said: This debate has been an absolute massacre. Go and have a lie down Roger. An absolute massacre Webbo gets one thing right about the totally meaningless measure of GDP, freely admits he hasn't actually got a clue why he's right, I happily admit I got one stat wrong, and that's a massacre?! We know you lot have got low standards but bloody hell. No wonder the tories find you so easy to manipulate. Speaking of massacres, no comments from any of you lot about Tory wage growth being the worst in the developed world? Edited 15 January 2018 by Rogstanley
Sharpe's Fox Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 44 minutes ago, MattP said: @Sharpe's Fox When you said Chris Williamson was going to be turning up to take away people's second homes is he going to start with himself? http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/derby-mp-chris-williamson-admits-1068348 Damn Chris Williamson’s a kulak.
Strokes Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 30 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: An absolute massacre Webbo gets one thing right about the totally meaningless measure of GDP, freely admits he hasn't actually got a clue why he's right, I happily admit I got one stat wrong, and that's a massacre?! We know you lot have got low standards but bloody hell. No wonder the tories find you so easy to manipulate. Speaking of massacres, no comments from any of you lot about Tory wage growth being the worst in the developed world? Wow you’re resorting to whataboutisms, times must be tough. 1
Rogstanley Posted 15 January 2018 Posted 15 January 2018 Just now, Strokes said: Wow you’re resorting to whataboutisms, times must be tough. Bringing up the subject of wage growth isn't whataboutery. I'm happy to admit that Webbo is right, GDP growth has been marginally stronger in the UK than in Germany since 2010. I'm not trying to discredit his argument there at all. But obviously the wider subject being discussed here is the state of the British economy and for most people that manifests itself through wages, so pointing out that we have the worst wage growth in the developed world; that alongside an embattled Greece we aren't just the worst country in the developed world, but in fact cut adrift from the rest by a considerable margin, is a very relevant point of discussion.
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