Webbo Posted 13 January 2018 Share Posted 13 January 2018 7 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: I think it's naïve to think companies like Carillion, with tens of thousands of staff, operate any differently to the public sector. The stacks of middle management and those beneath them in Carillion are no more incentivised by profit than an average public sector worker. You have faith in the free market to create lean, efficient companies, but in this case that faith is clearly misplaced. It has created a misfiring behemoth, drowning in debt, desperate for the tax payer to bail it out. Even more fundamental than that, is the fact that these government contracts don't actually offer any incentive to innovate or be efficient in a positive way at all, because profits are all but guaranteed. The incentive is to deliver the absolute minimum level of service needed to fulfil the contract at the lowest possible cost, and then like toddy says, charge through the roof for the inevitable extras. You can say "nationalised industries are crap" and you might be right, maybe there's an inherent difficulty in running such large scale complex operations that means they're always going to be a bit crap. But what the past few weeks have shown is that this model of privatisation, where private companies can have their cake and eat it, is worse than crap. Not only is the service crap, not only are things more expensive for the user than ever, but we're then being asked to stump up even more to make sure the failing fat cats get their golden handshake. Only this government could aim for a win-win situation and end up with a lose-lose-lose. We're talking about a few companies not all of them. We don't really have a free market system atm. Companies shouldn't be forced to take on other staff or have politically correct quotas, they need to be allowed to go out of business. That's never going to happen though, you can only judge capitalism when we have proper free markets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 13 January 2018 Share Posted 13 January 2018 33 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: https://carillionplc-uploads-shared.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/1039IT-interim-results-presentation-2017-original.pdf The interim results presentation back in September was pretty damning. Yet, don't understand how a companies situation can drop off a cliff like that? Accounts are supposed to be independently audited. They must have been holding the bad news back from accounts because the stock market knew something was up - Carillion shares were being heavily short sold in the months before the shit hit the fan. An independent auditor will look over the numbers at a high level but the devil is in the detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 13 January 2018 Share Posted 13 January 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Webbo said: We don't really have a free market system atm. Companies shouldn't be forced to take on other staff or have politically correct quotas, they need to be allowed to go out of business. That's never going to happen though, you can only judge capitalism when we have proper free markets. Don't agree with the underlined bit, I don't think encouraging diversity and protecting employees is why the current system fails. I do agree in principle with the bolded bit. I think you either privatise properly or you nationalise, and when privatising properly is not feasible then nationalisation is the only sensible option remaining. Edited 13 January 2018 by Rogstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Webbo said: We're talking about a few companies not all of them. We don't really have a free market system atm. Companies shouldn't be forced to take on other staff or have politically correct quotas, they need to be allowed to go out of business. That's never going to happen though, you can only judge capitalism when we have proper free markets. Nobody has to have politically correct quotas in reality, do they? Perhaps a policy about inclusivity but nobody is checking actual numbers? The private sector does everything it possibly can to con the public sector and public out of money as it is - ever increasing insurance costs for example - I'd be shit scared if we left those who think about their profit first to run things as they see fit. It would be horrendous. Edited 14 January 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 Human beings at major mainstream French retailers sat down in a meeting and decided making money was more important than not selling baby milk contaminated with salmonella http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42652434 The good old free market again with its incentive to be efficient and to innovate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 Doctors and nurses: ‘When May and Hunt tell the public the NHS is not in crisis, that is a lie’ https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/14/nhs-not-in-crisis-lie-national-health-service-crisis-winter-interviews?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Selected quote'from a doctor: Last year was slightly worse than 2016, which was slightly worse than the year before, and so on. The difference in 2017, I think, is that things reached a tipping point. The demands on our service outstrip our ability to provide care. The government seems to love publishing figures saying we’re spending more on the NHS than ever before, but that’s a meaningless statement. Every year, the total number of patients requiring admission to hospital has gone up, the total number of beds has gone down, and, year on year on year, the total amount of money that we’ve had available to spend – in real terms – has gone down. This conversation can become personal and party-political, and it’s important to remember that the current problems within the health service are not solely the responsibility of the Conservative party. We’ve been mismanaging the health service for an awfully long time. But the facts speak for themselves: the amount of money available per person is significantly lower than it was last year, or the year before, or the year before that. And I would place the blame for that squarely at the feet of the Tory government. They have opted to spend, effectively, less and less as a proportion of our GDP, and less per capita, than in previous years. Among healthcare professionals, this is almost a universally held view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 Couple my last article with http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/home/finance-and-practice-life-news/public-health-budget-to-be-slashed-by-5-over-next-two-years/20035939.article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 You don't HAVE to be a racist to be associated with UKIP, but it does seem to help http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42679187 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 13 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said: You don't HAVE to be a racist to be associated with UKIP, but it does seem to help http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42679187 I wish she hadn't apologised though. Don't agree with her obviously, but I'm fed up.with people demanding apologies for everything. I don't want her to say sorry, back away from her comments like they never happened, whilst still thinking them. I want her to fight her corner until eventually enough people who aren't ***** like her make her realise why what she said is so wrong. Saying something one day and then apologising the next means you know what you've said is abhorrent but you still believe in it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 39 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said: You don't HAVE to be a racist to be associated with UKIP, but it does seem to help http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42679187 Those comments are lifted straight out of the white supremacist handbook. Disgusting. Hopefully that'll signal the long overdue demise of UKIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 6 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Those comments are lifted straight out of the white supremacist handbook. Disgusting. Hopefully that'll signal the long overdue demise of UKIP. They're already no more than a fringe party (1.8% of the vote last election) - the kind of people still associated with them are unlikely to be put off by something which they probably agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 33 minutes ago, Facecloth said: I wish she hadn't apologised though. Don't agree with her obviously, but I'm fed up.with people demanding apologies for everything. I don't want her to say sorry, back away from her comments like they never happened, whilst still thinking them. I want her to fight her corner until eventually enough people who aren't ***** like her make her realise why what she said is so wrong. Saying something one day and then apologising the next means you know what you've said is abhorrent but you still believe in it. Whats funny is she is saying the messages have been taken out of context, i would love for her to explain a context which make them less offensive. The person she is sending them too doesnt seem to participating or encouraging. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 I dont see the problem, she seems lovely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 7 minutes ago, Strokes said: Whats funny is she is saying the messages have been taken out of context, i would love for her to explain a context which make them less offensive. The person she is sending them too doesnt seem to participating or encouraging. I love how she's euphemistically described as a glamour model. I guess that's what we call soft porn these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 Just now, Buce said: I love how she's euphemistically described as a glamour model. I guess that's what we call soft porn these days. Its tits no fanny, isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 Just now, Strokes said: Its tits no fanny, isnt it? You tell me, bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 So, a summary of the UKIP leadership over the past 18 months....only 18 months... - Farage resigns - Diane James elected, but resigns after a fortnight due to lack of support and quits the party - Farage returns as interim leader - Woolfe (leadership candidate) hospitalised by fellow UKIP MEP after alleged punch-up - Nuttall elected but discredited after making dubious claims that he'd been a Tranmere footballer, had a PhD, had been at Hillsborough and lived in Stoke - Carswell, UKIP's only MP, quits party - Nuttall resigns after UKIP decimated at election - Bolton elected, seeming a sensible option, but starts an affair with a glamour model 30 years younger than him, who is revealed to be a massive racist You'd struggle to make a party look more ridiculous even if you were trying to destroy it. The stupid thing, from their perspective, is that there is still a role for them, despite having won the referendum. They could be a credible force pushing for a Hard Brexit against May's "backsliding". That opportunity will become much greater if May negotiates a Soft Brexit deal or negotiations descend into chaos. Despite saying he doesn't want to return, I wonder if Farage will be back as leader? If not, who will pick up the baton on Hard Brexit/anti-immigration/populist right politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgfualol Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 2 hours ago, Sharpe's Fox said: I dont see the problem, she seems lovely Bit ironic that she is accusing someone else of being obsessed with race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 3 hours ago, Buce said: I love how she's euphemistically described as a glamour model. I guess that's what we call soft porn these days. If she can be any sort of model then there’s hope left for us all. The woman is hideous. Imagine abandoning your family for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 3 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: If she can be any sort of model then there’s hope left for us all. The woman is hideous. Imagine abandoning your family for this No titty shots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Strokes said: No titty shots? I think it's against forum rules, but there are some on Google images if you have filters off. Allegedly. Edited 14 January 2018 by Buce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, MattP said: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-growth-gdp-rise-weak-2017-forecast-pwc-brexit-city-london-a8155296.html PwC predictions of 1.8 per cent calendar-year growth would mean smallest expansion since 1.5 per cent rise during 2012. It appears that Matty is taking figures out of context. Edited 14 January 2018 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 3 minutes ago, toddybad said: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-growth-gdp-rise-weak-2017-forecast-pwc-brexit-city-london-a8155296.html PwC predictions of 1.8 per cent calendar-year growth would mean smallest expansion since 1.5 per cent rise during 2012 Down 0.1% from last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 14 January 2018 Share Posted 14 January 2018 2 minutes ago, Strokes said: Down 0.1% from last year? Right. That's a fall of around £1.8 billion. Worst growth in 5 years. What's your point? Growth was running at over 3% when the Tories came into office and they've successfully reduced economic performance through anti-growth policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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