Fox Ulike Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 Just now, Izzy Muzzett said: I’ve got to hand it to you Rog. You’re the master at taking ‘encouraging signs’ and still making everything sound really shit Err. Pot. Kettle. Black. You've just read an article entitled "UK economic growth revised downward" and scrolled right to the bottom to find the tiny piece of good news appended to it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 8 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: The Left are not always known for their joyous, happy views on life. The Left talk about life being miserable. The Right go out and make life miserable (for anyone who isn't the in-group at the time, anyway). Words and deeds. /facetiousness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 9 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Err. Pot. Kettle. Black. You've just read an article entitled "UK economic growth revised downward" and scrolled right to the bottom to find the tiny piece of good news appended to it!! Hardly tiny.. The Bank of England is a bit more optimistic about growth prospects. Last month, it raised its growth forecast for the UK economy to 1.8% this year, from its previous forecast of 1.6% made in November. At the time, the Bank indicated that the pace of interest rate increases in the UK could accelerate if the economy remained on its current track. Encouraging signs One nagging problem for the UK has been a lack of productivity growth since the financial crisis of 2007. But on Tuesday, official data showed signs of improvement. Output per hour rose 0.8% in the three months to December, the Office for National Statistics said. It follows growth of 0.9% in the previous period. That was the the strongest two-quarter period of productivity growth since the recession of 2008. There was also a better-than-expected rise in wages. Excluding bonuses, earnings rose by 2.5% year-on-year. Unemployment edged higher at the end of last year, but still remains low at 4.4%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 12 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Hardly tiny.. The Bank of England is a bit more optimistic about growth prospects. Last month, it raised its growth forecast for the UK economy to 1.8% this year, from its previous forecast of 1.6% made in November. At the time, the Bank indicated that the pace of interest rate increases in the UK could accelerate if the economy remained on its current track. Encouraging signs One nagging problem for the UK has been a lack of productivity growth since the financial crisis of 2007. But on Tuesday, official data showed signs of improvement. Output per hour rose 0.8% in the three months to December, the Office for National Statistics said. It follows growth of 0.9% in the previous period. That was the the strongest two-quarter period of productivity growth since the recession of 2008. There was also a better-than-expected rise in wages. Excluding bonuses, earnings rose by 2.5% year-on-year. Unemployment edged higher at the end of last year, but still remains low at 4.4%. OK. So are the BBC are mis-reporting this piece of news? They have focused on the worse-than-expected economic growth, and the fact that the UK is bottom of the G7 table. Should the article have been the other way around: leading with ‘Encouraging signs’, and then just mentioning the G7 table at the end of the article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 5 hours ago, Donut said: You can do something about it like you can now. You can CHOOSE to opt out of the working time directive if you WANT to work loads of hours. If you dont you have rights, as well as sick pay and other protections. If the conservatives stop this your choice is TAKEN AWAY so your boss can do what they like with your work contract. If youre seriously trying to say you voted brexit in the name of democracy so you could lose all your employment rights at work youre either lying, a boss looking forward to exploiting people for your own gain, or an absolute fool. Whose said we're going to lose our employment rights apart from the remainers, and we all know what a bunch of liars they are. Our employment rights in this country are higher than some parts EU, we had holidays and holiday pay long before we joined the common market. You don't want to swallow all this hysterical propaganda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Whose said we're going to lose our employment rights apart from the remainers, and we all know what a bunch of liars they are. Our employment rights in this country are higher than some parts EU, we had holidays and holiday pay long before we joined the common market. You don't want to swallow all this hysterical propaganda. And this is why i cant be arsed with threads like this. Make a point about whats in the papers you instantly meet a shouty person screaming why YOURE wrong and having no debate at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 4 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: The take back control myth was debunked numerous times in the pre-ref thread. Trouble is some people are so paranoid about the EU that they wouldn't listen then and they won't listen now or ever accept they may have been rash. Oddly they don't share that paranoia about a British government continuously making decisions that negatively impact immigration rates (chose not to enact the 3 months to get a job or you're out rule), the NHS (allowing funding to drop in real terms and employment to plummet), workers' rights (zero hour contracts which might serve a purpose for some but are by and large used by exploitative employers) and so on because "we can vote them out". That's not stopped them being shit for the country but still these people continue to offer their blind loyalty while the entity in Brussels which if anything has served as a safeguard for us in the grand scheme of things (the fishing quotas issue is about the only legitimate complaint I can think of) is treated with irrational suspicion and contempt. If you don't like any of those things you can vote for another party that will change things. If the European Commission decide to impose things on you you don't like there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. C'mon Carl, lets take back control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 3 hours ago, deep blue said: How can you possibly say it's what "we" voted for. The vote was simply on whether we stayed in the EU or not. You have no idea which of the particular implications of leaving the EU had the most sway in voters' intentions. If people can assume that we voted for Brexit because we're all racist pensioners, I entitled assume we voted for noble reasons and seeing as I actually voted that way I'm probably a bit more clued about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 12 minutes ago, Donut said: And this is why i cant be arsed with threads like this. Make a point about whats in the papers you instantly meet a shouty person screaming why YOURE wrong and having no debate at all. Actually it's you who was making hysterical, unrealistic predictions based on nothing but prejudice and now somebody politely disagrees and you're playing the victim. If you don't like your views being challenged maybe this thread isn't for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: Actually it's you who was making hysterical, unrealistic predictions based on nothing but prejudice and now somebody politely disagrees and you're playing the victim. If you don't like your views being challenged maybe this thread isn't for you. Yep throw in some more hyperbolic terms and keep your anger level up. Bye twat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 Just now, Donut said: Yep throw in some more hyperbolic terms and keep your anger level up. Bye twat. Have a nice day now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 31 minutes ago, Webbo said: If you don't like any of those things you can vote for another party that will change things. If the European Commission decide to impose things on you you don't like there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. C'mon Carl, lets take back control. How does the European Commission "impose things" on us? Do you have an example of something that's been undemocratically imposed? I was under the impression that there is an elected EU Parliament that passes EU legislation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 5 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: How does the European Commission "impose things" on us? Do you have an example of something that's been undemocratically imposed? I was under the impression that there is an elected EU Parliament that passes EU legislation? The European Parliament cannot propose nor repeal legislation. Did anyone in this country vote to share our fishing grounds with every other European country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: The European Parliament cannot propose nor repeal legislation. Did anyone in this country vote to share our fishing grounds with every other European country? That wasn't what I asked. How does the European Commission "impose things" on us? Given your earlier post today that Remainers are "a bunch of liars", I would hope you'll have a good answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 2 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: That wasn't what I asked. How does the European Commission "impose things" on us? Given your earlier post today that Remainers are "a bunch of liars", I would hope you'll have a good answer. Prepare to be shouted at 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 1 hour ago, Izzy Muzzett said: I’ve got to hand it to you Rog. You’re the master at taking ‘encouraging signs’ and still making everything sound really shit I just reported the truth. If it sounds really shit that’s probably because it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 Just now, Donut said: Prepare to be shouted at Noooo. My guess is that he'll just answer a different question. One that I haven't asked. MattP will then give him a rep point, regardless of what he's said 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 2 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: That wasn't what I asked. How does the European Commission "impose things" on us? Given your earlier post today that Remainers are "a bunch of liars", I would hope you'll have a good answer. There are laws enacted in this country that weren't in any UK party's manifesto because we are told to enact them by the European Commission. In 2010 and 2015 the conservatives said in their manifesto they were going to reduce immigration to below 100k per year, they couldn't do that because the EU imposed freedom of movement upon us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 5 minutes ago, Webbo said: There are laws enacted in this country that weren't in any UK party's manifesto because we are told to enact them by the European Commission. In 2010 and 2015 the conservatives said in their manifesto they were going to reduce immigration to below 100k per year, they couldn't do that because the EU imposed freedom of movement upon us. Well, no. The Freedom of Movement legislation was already there in 2010. Nothing was imposed. We weren't 'told' to do it we signed up to it!! So in your example, the Conservatives made a manifesto promise that was impossible to keep, because it would involve contravening an EU law that we had agreed to. If enough member states wanted to overturn that law, then they would do so. We're in a minority so we either have to put up with it, or leave. That's clearly not the same thing as the European Commission imposing a law on us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 19 minutes ago, Webbo said: If you don't like any of those things you can vote for another party that will change things. If the European Commission decide to impose things on you you don't like there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. C'mon Carl, lets take back control. I'm one of several posters who has previously pointed out that the European Commission does not "impose" legislation/regulations. It proposes and implements them, but policy decisions and legislation are introduced by the European Council (heads of state & government of nation states), Council of Ministers (national ministers) & the directly-elected European Parliament. Some of these decisions require unanimity, some a qualified majority. Major changes are approved by EU Treaties, from which opt-outs can sometimes be negotiated: e.g. the Tory opt-out from the Social Chapter on employment/social rights, subsequently reversed by Labour. I appreciate that you seem to have a closed mind and zero interest in challenging your own thinking, but for anyone else interested.... https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies_en 14 minutes ago, Webbo said: If people can assume that we voted for Brexit because we're all racist pensioners, I entitled assume we voted for noble reasons and seeing as I actually voted that way I'm probably a bit more clued about it. Again, I'm one of several posters who have previously pointed out that no reasonable Remainer believes that all Brexiteers are racist pensioners. I can only assume that you choose to ignore such comments, as you continue to peddle the same old misrepresentations. Of course, some Brexiteers are racist pensioners, just as some Remainers are naive virtue-signallers every bit as narrow-minded as some of the Brexiteers. But, for the umpteenth time, I don't assume that all or even a majority of Brexit voters are racists, so would appreciate it if you stopped your offensive misrepresentation of my views. The same applies to that vile, dishonest propaganda from the verminous Melanie Phillips, which you posted so approvingly. 7 minutes ago, Webbo said: Actually it's you who was making hysterical, unrealistic predictions based on nothing but prejudice and now somebody politely disagrees and you're playing the victim. If you don't like your views being challenged maybe this thread isn't for you. Are those predictions so hysterical or unrealistic? The Tories previously opted out of the Social Chapter. May and Hammond (?) have made veiled threats about turning post-Brexit Britain into a new, low-tax Singapore (low tax = low social standards + low employment rights). Just a few days ago, May insinuated that the UK might even be less than fully cooperative on security. In the interests of austerity politics, the govt is currently destroying public services and the social fabric of the nation like a pack of rabid hyenas. If we negotiate a Hard Brexit, we will lose a proportion of by far our largest export market, so will be desperate for trade deals from the likes of Trump and China....just imagine the terms for those. All may turn out well, but @Donut's predictions are not "based on nothing" and seem anything but "hysterical and unrealistic" to me. So asking someone if he's "thick" and describing people as "a bunch of liars" is your idea of polite disagreement, is it? Not to mention the disgraceful abuse in Phillips' article? Frankly, over the last few pages you have come across like an angry, dishonest, blinkered, narrow-minded old bigot. Are you having a stressful time after moving home or something? I know that we mainly disagree about politics but you're not usually quite this objectionable. If you don't like your views being challenged, Webbo, maybe this thread isn't for you? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 (edited) [Sorry, duplication] Edited 22 February 2018 by Alf Bentley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 4 minutes ago, Fox Ulike said: Well, no. The Freedom of Movement legislation was already there in 2010. Nothing was imposed. We weren't 'told' to do it we signed up to it!! So in your example, the Conservatives made a manifesto promise that was impossible to keep, because it would involve contravening an EU law that we had agreed to. If enough member states wanted to overturn that law, then they would do so. We're in a minority so we either have to put up with it, or leave. That's clearly not the same thing as the European Commission imposing a law on us. The conservative party wanted to change freedom of movement and were told they couldn't, despite the fact that voters had voted for that party. You can try and be pedantic and pretend that isn't imposing but it amounts to the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 1 hour ago, Fox Ulike said: OK. So are the BBC are mis-reporting this piece of news? They have focused on the worse-than-expected economic growth, and the fact that the UK is bottom of the G7 table. Should the article have been the other way around: leading with ‘Encouraging signs’, and then just mentioning the G7 table at the end of the article? Heaven forbid the BBC (or anyone else for that matter) actually leads with the positive news first. But then negative headlines get more attention and clicks I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Ulike Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 12 minutes ago, Webbo said: The conservative party wanted to change freedom of movement and were told they couldn't, despite the fact that voters had voted for that party. You can try and be pedantic and pretend that isn't imposing but it amounts to the same thing. I'm not being pedantic, I'm not pretending. I'm being factual. I think that's the bit you're struggling with. Look. I'll only say this one more time because it's really not in dispute and I can't really say it any more simply. The EU doesn't impose laws. The UK can't agree to a law in one legislative chamber (EU Parliament) and then seek to overturn that same law in a different legislative chamber (UK Parliament). That's clearly nonsense. And with every post that you seek to support this, you will just expose yourself to more and more ridicule. Can I offer some advice? You don't know everything. If you make a mistake or post something that's wrong, just 'fess up about it. People will respect you for it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 February 2018 Share Posted 22 February 2018 8 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Heaven forbid the BBC (or anyone else for that matter) actually leads with the positive news first. But then negative headlines get more attention and clicks I guess... Pretty sure editors don't structure a running order based upon the positivity or negativity of a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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