Safe Standing Survey Results

[davieG]

33 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

It is but that isnt a road to go down.  

What road?

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 minute ago, davieG said:

What road?

Using people already standing in all seater stadiums as an argument for safe standing.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

20 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

allow standing areas in the grounds and risk another disaster?

There's more risk of injuries people standing in seating areas than managed standing areas.

[davieG]

17 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Using people already standing in all seater stadiums as an argument for safe standing.

Well it's a valid argument as those people are never going to be persuaded to sit and they are an accident waiting to happen, in fact already happening whilst the football authorities continue to behave like ostriches.

If for example the council design a road layout to prevent accidents happening and the new design creates additional problems and accidents due to how it's used then they'll  change it, I don't see the difference.

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

13 hours ago, Wookie said:

It can't be said enough times but Safe standing is entirely different to terracing - terracing isn't that different to previous era's stands but safe standing combines the best of all seater stadiums with terracing. There's almost a 0% crushing chance due to every seat having an independent 'crush' barrier. A visual comparison immediately outlines the difference.

.

 

The two are completely different  - calls to reintroduce "safe standing" are wrong because safe standing hasn't been available in England before. Safe standing is a separate entity to what terraces in England offered before

This is so important. It's so obvious that so many people don't know what the rail seating areas look like. I've stood on them, they cannot possibly be any safer. 

[Realist Guy In The Room]

59 minutes ago, davieG said:

Well it's a valid argument as those people are never going to be persuaded to sit and they are an accident waiting to happen, in fact already happening whilst the football authorities continue to behave like ostriches.

If for example the council design a road layout to prevent accidents happening and the new design creates additional problems and accidents due to how it's used then they'll  change it, I don't see the difference.

 

I’ll say again, i’m all for the standing areas.  I know the design and where they’re used effectively etc etc. 

 

All i’m saying is, there is nothing in the recent history of football to suggest that the wishes or preferences of supporters matter at all to the powers that be and there will never be a situation where safe standing will be allowed at top flight football.

 

The only course of action that will likely occur using the argument that people who stand already will never sit, is the authorities will force clubs to remove those supporters tickets unless they do

in fact, sit down.

 

 

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 hour ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

There's more risk of injuries people standing in seating areas than managed standing areas.

Completely agree and I can see it being more likely that the powers that be take stronger action against this rather than allow safe standing.

[Voll Blau]

2 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

What I meant is that if people try and use

that as an argument (that it already happens), it’s more likely to lead to a clampdown on standing in a seating section rather than the authorisation of safe standing.

Hmmmm, a few years ago I would have agreed, but I think we're past that watershed of hysteria now? Can't remember the last time I had to ignore a steward who was telling me to sit down at a game. Think the authorities have realised it's a waste of resources trying to stop mass standing. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

2 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Completely agree and I can see it being more likely that the powers that be take stronger action against this rather than allow safe standing.

Most clubs, even LCFC, aren't that bothered about people standing in front of seats anymore. It happens at every ground without exception, so I wouldn't agree with that point at all. 

 

It's a matter of when, not if, imo. 

[Realist Guy In The Room]

2 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Most clubs, even LCFC, aren't that bothered about people standing in front of seats anymore. It happens at every ground without exception, so I wouldn't agree with that point at all. 

 

It's a matter of when, not if, imo. 

Hope you’re right.

 

Cant see it ever happening.

[Daggers]

7 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

There's more risk of injuries people standing in seating areas than managed standing areas.

I think it was Barnsley away, I forget the year, but some idiot who’d drunk far too much went flying over a chair. He crushed (again, I think) Little Dave. It is what happens when you mix beer, unsafe standing and a Barry Hayles song. Safe standing might well have prevented this. Possibly.

[stripeyfox]

On 2/21/2018 at 21:14, Realist Guy In The Room said:

I loved standing in the Kop.  When we played Yeovil I enjoyed standing on the terrace.  Would I be in favour of standing?  Absolutely.  Will it ever happen?  Not in a month of Sundays.  The club are not interested in dialogue as it just simply will never happen.

 

The safe standing argument just isn’t there to be made i’m afraid and a fans survey holds no weight as fans didn’t want standing removed in the first place.

 

The unfortunate truth is that nobody had enough of an issue with the safety of the terraces before Hillsborough so the overriding argument will always come back to that.  Can the FA in good faith, allow standing areas in the grounds and risk another disaster?  Regardless of how ‘safe’ you make a standing area, one accident or incident and the liability the FA would face would be unheard of.

 

One final point.  The discussion on here is all very civilised about this subject.  The reality is, the terraces were never that, and if we all think that football fans would universally obey and observe rules and regulations laid out by the stadium and the club in regards to a safe standing area, that’s just naivety of the highest degree.  The club know it, the FA know it. So it will never happen regardless of how much noise any fan group of any club make.

It is worth pointing out (again) that the Hillsborough disaster wasn't caused by standing areas, but by the failure of police to control a large crowd outside the stadium resulting in a ill judged decision by a senior policeman who by his own admission was unfamiliar with the stadium layout, which lead to the crush.

 

I think associating the current safe standing campaign with Hillsborough is something we should leave to the Daily Mail

 

 

[davieG]

1 hour ago, stripeyfox said:

It is worth pointing out (again) that the Hillsborough disaster wasn't caused by standing areas, but by the failure of police to control a large crowd outside the stadium resulting in a ill judged decision by a senior policeman who by his own admission was unfamiliar with the stadium layout, which lead to the crush.

 

I think associating the current safe standing campaign with Hillsborough is something we should leave to the Daily Mail

 

 

Plus the I'll advised decision to fence fans in. Even if there hadn't been an overcrowding issue imagine the result if there had been a Bradford like fire with no means to escape onto the pitch.

 

Just because someone comes up with an idea to improve safety as in all seater stadium doesn't mean it will be the perfect solution which it isn't and should always be open to review and modification.

[Livid]

I don't have a problem with people standing per se but I moved into J3 for the Sheff Utd game and whilst I get the whole of L1 and the back of SK1 stands, no problem at all with that.  Nothing against creating a safe standing area at all.

 

I looked across the aisle at K Block though and there were  sporadic people standing directly in front of people who were sitting, I don't know maybe K block stands regularly for normal league games and there we seats taken up by those who don't regularly go, but putting it politely it was a little inconsiderate.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, Livid said:

I don't have a problem with people standing per se but I moved into J3 for the Sheff Utd game and whilst I get the whole of L1 and the back of SK1 stands, no problem at all with that.  Nothing against creating a safe standing area at all.

 

I looked across the aisle at K Block though and there were  sporadic people standing directly in front of people who were sitting, I don't know maybe K block stands regularly for normal league games and there we seats taken up by those who don't regularly go, but putting it politely it was a little inconsiderate.

I'm fairly certain most of K is stood, though it's a few years since I was last over that part of the ground. Again though, this is something the club could actively engage with fans on to make them aware of what it's likely to be like in the area they're buying tickets. Instead, they're choosing to sweep the whole issue of standing under the rug like it doesn't exist.

 

Whether that's to make sure they don't alert the Safety Advisory Group to the fact of standing at the ground, I don't know (Norwich are having trouble with theirs threatening stand closures at the moment I believe). But the current stance isn't helping standers or sitters, and it's not going to make the future any better for them either.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

9 hours ago, Daggers said:

I think it was Barnsley away, I forget the year, but some idiot who’d drunk far too much went flying over a chair. He crushed (again, I think) Little Dave. It is what happens when you mix beer, unsafe standing and a Barry Hayles song. Safe standing might well have prevented this. Possibly.

Saw a video a few weeks ago of a couple of lads (drunk but that's not the point), falling over rows celebrating a goal and being knocked out by the fall. Standing in seating areas isn't safe and we're advanced enough as a society and a footballing community to facilitate people wanting to stand up in a suitable environment. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

2 hours ago, davieG said:

Plus the I'll advised decision to fence fans in.

Again, fences aren't an issue, it's the management of the people behind then that needs to be looked at. I sound like a broken record referencing Germany all the time, but the vast majority of terraces there have fences at the front of them and I don't know of any incidents or record becasue they are managed properly. 

[davieG]

8 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Again, fences aren't an issue, it's the management of the people behind then that needs to be looked at. I sound like a broken record referencing Germany all the time, but the vast majority of terraces there have fences at the front of them and I don't know of any incidents or record becasue they are managed properly. 

Fences block off a natural alternative escape route if something untoward happens in the stands like a fire, collapsing structures and fallen people blocking exits plus I don't feel they reflect well on the overall treatment of football fans suggesting caged animals.

 

If you treat people in a antagonistic way you're more likely to get and antagonistic response.

 

Well it would certainly piss me off as does over policing etc.

[red5]

41 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Saw a video a few weeks ago of a couple of lads (drunk but that's not the point), falling over rows celebrating a goal and being knocked out by the fall. Standing in seating areas isn't safe and we're advanced enough as a society and a footballing community to facilitate people wanting to stand up in a suitable environment. 

So stop putting people's safety at risk, sit down shut up.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

37 minutes ago, red5 said:

So stop putting people's safety at risk, sit down shut up.

No

[Sammy]

On 22/02/2018 at 15:15, yorkie1999 said:

Not really, as it's bolted to the existing concrete that the current seats are bolted to. The problem is Hillsborough and, stupid as it sounds, it probably won't get installed until the the Hillsborough committee either agree to it or are no longer consulted on football ground safety.  

I think the structure still needs to change as a result of the increase in numbers of people per square foot in a safe standing section, needs to be solid enough to deal with that extra weight etc

Edited 23 February 2018 by Sammy

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, Sammy said:

I think the structure still needs to change as a result of the increase in numbers of people per square foot in a safe standing section, needs to be solid enough to deal with that extra weight etc

The model that it being looked at in the UK allocates 1 standing place per seated place, so there's no increase in crowd density. 

[Bert]

5 hours ago, red5 said:

So stop putting people's safety at risk, sit down shut up.

Been stood in L1 for nearly 15 years now. Not once have I seen an accident or anyone's safety put at risk due to standing. 

[red5]

24 minutes ago, Bert said:

Been stood in L1 for nearly 15 years now. Not once have I seen an accident or anyone's safety put at risk due to standing. 

You need to move, sounds boring.

[Voll Blau]

Palace have been trying to implement it in the Lower Holmesdale...

 

Quote

The club has been considering various options around the reconfiguration of the Lower Holmesdale. The main focus has been on the possible introduction of dual purpose seating systems which would enable supporters to stand in a safe environment whilst adding to the vibrancy of the stadium’s famous atmosphere. The club also explored the idea of introducing a central singing section at the heart of the lower tier. Both ideas warranted further thought and discussion for the benefit of our fans.

Discussions took place with the Premier League and the Football Association, and whilst there is clearly merit in dual purpose seating systems - it is clear the decision is not one the club can make unilaterally and it was felt that more time is needed to explore all available options.

Therefore, season tickets renewals for next season for all seats in the stadium, including the Lower Holmesdale, are now on sale to existing holders.  We would like to take this opportunity to apologise for the delay in making the seats available and for any confusion caused. 

https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/2018/march/season-tickets-201819-update-holmesdale-road-lower-tier/