Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[ealingfox]

15 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Have you asked the poor people what they want? 

 

Have you? I suspect some support it and some don't. Unfortunately it's very rare that substantive policies garner universal support. Londoners have given Khan two terms that hes won fair and square. If its so unpopular then there's only 7 months until a chance to vote him out.

 

11 minutes ago, Strokes said:

With any luck blade runner will have taken most of the cameras down by next week.

 

Interesting that criminal damage is ok if its against something you don't like. I'm sure you hold this view consistently and are happy to accept things you support being damaged.

Edited 14 September 2023 by ealingfox

[Dahnsouff]

People hate change! Who knew?  

[Strokes]

15 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

Interesting that criminal damage is ok if it’s against something you don't like. I'm sure you hold this view consistently and are happy to accept things you support being damaged.

I’m sure we are all a bit biased when it comes to protest damage eh? I bet you’ve been happy to see things torn down in the past.

If you can’t beat them, do it better than them. 

[ealingfox]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’m sure we are all a bit biased when it comes to protest damage eh? I bet you’ve been happy to see things torn down in the past.

If you can’t beat them, do it better than them. 

 

When have I celebrated protest damage? Who is them and what do you think you're doing better than them?

 

Do you even live anywhere near London? 

[Strokes]

34 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

When have I celebrated protest damage? Who is them and what do you think you're doing better than them?

 

Do you even live anywhere near London? 

Why do I need to live anywhere near London to be affected?

Surely I just need to be driving in once or twice to have an opinion.

 

Im sure I remember you celebrating statues being torn down in Bristol etc or at least enjoying winding people up on the subject.

 

Vandalising the cameras is doing it better (more covert), as it’s not in being done in plain sight. As far as I’m aware nobody has yet been arrested for the damage.

[Strokes]

39 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

When have I celebrated protest damage? Who is them and what do you think you're doing better than them?

 

Do you even live anywhere near London? 

He has a point, if you want to emit ‘toxic fumes’ that harm people. It’s ok, so long as you pay the council a levy.

[Parafox]

18 minutes ago, Strokes said:

He has a point, if you want to emit ‘toxic fumes’ that harm people. It’s ok, so long as you pay the council a levy.

This is a bit like some wealthy people parking their cars on double yellows or in restricted areas knowing the £60 (or whatever) fine will be like 60p to them.

 

 It happens.

 

Tow away zones would stop this. I know London and other places have them. 

 

Anyway, that's a different issue but has a similar kind of point to the one @Strokes is making.

Edited 14 September 2023 by Parafox

[Dahnsouff]

19 minutes ago, Strokes said:

He has a point, if you want to emit ‘toxic fumes’ that harm people. It’s ok, so long as you pay the council a levy.

If you stop 5% of people driving, it’s a positive, no?

[Parafox]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

If you stop 5% of people driving, it’s a positive, no?

Are there ULEZ exemptions for the disabled and those dependent on a car for transport?

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Parafox said:

Are there ULEZ exemptions for the disabled and those dependent on a car for transport?

I do not know, but I would be horrified if there isn’t

[Parafox]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

I do not know, but I would be horrified if there isn’t

Me too. I asked because of what @Milo said:

 

4 hours ago, Milo said:

 

As of last week I now live in the ULEZ zone. In a very leafy, green, pleasant and not at all polluted area 15 miles outside of London. Surrounded by golf courses and the South London Downs. 
 

Why the absolute fvck should anyone here pay £12.50 if they have an older car.
 

Why should parents who have to drive their younger children to our school have to pay £12.50 every day. 

 

The expansion is the equivalent of say, the Mayor of Coventry, worried by the poor city centre air quality there, imposing the ULEZ zone on Hinckley. It’s nonsense. 
 

Oh, and if you forget to pay/stray into one of the chargeable streets the fine is £180.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree polluting vehicles should be restricted but not everyone who lives in a leafy London suburb has a ULEZ car or is wealthy enough to buy a compliant vehicle, but still needs a vehicle to go about their daily lives and take their there kids to school. 

 

Maybe there should be a concession for these people?

[Bellend Sebastian]

We need some good news ULEZ stories.

 

Baz from Bexhill has used the money from

19 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Me too. I asked because of what @Milo said:

 

I agree polluting vehicles should be restricted but not everyone who lives in a leafy London suburb has a ULEZ car or is wealthy enough to buy a compliant vehicle, but still needs a vehicle to go about their daily lives and take their there kids to school. 

 

Maybe there should be a concession for these people?

My 2005 Astra was ULEZ compliant and I reckon if that still exists you could probably buy that for about £200, spend the rest of the scrappage money on a nice hot tub or something

Edited 14 September 2023 by Bellend Sebastian

[Parafox]

6 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

We need some good news ULEZ stories.

 

Baz from Bexhill has used the money from

My 2005 Astra was ULEZ compliant and I reckon if that still exists you could probably buy that for about £200, spend the rest of the scrappage money on a nice hot tub or something

 

I'd consider it it if it was anything but a Vauxhall 

[Dahnsouff]

58 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Me too. I asked because of what @Milo said:

 

I agree polluting vehicles should be restricted but not everyone who lives in a leafy London suburb has a ULEZ car or is wealthy enough to buy a compliant vehicle, but still needs a vehicle to go about their daily lives and take their there kids to school. 

 

Maybe there should be a concession for these people?

We seem to suck so bad at any ability to do means testing, but I agree that there must be a way to make it work in fairer way. This is a far broader problem than ULEZ obviously.

[Foxdiamond]

With regard to means testing benefits it has been stated that it can cost more to administer than to give more across the board for the group in total

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

With regard to means testing benefits it has been stated that it can cost more to administer than to give more across the board for the group in total

How can that be? We aren’t imposing further data points, operating across existing boundaries perhaps, but that feels like a bit of a cop out if I am honest.

Could be well wide of the mark, but does not feel insurmountable.

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

If you stop 5% of people driving, it’s a positive, no?

Yes taken at that sole point it’s a positive but you have to throw all things into the mix to get the full picture don’t you?

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Strokes said:

Yes taken at that sole point it’s a positive but you have to throw all things into the mix to get the full picture don’t you?

Well no, isn’t that the point of a specific 5% reduction? There is nuance and potential problems for some here, I see it clearly and there 100% must be mitigation for these cases. (As I hear there is) but a reduction is what we need and achieving one is the aim here. People inherently don’t like change in general and that offers as much of a challenge as anything to be honest. Maybe we need a better way of imposing such tariffs, but we do need a way.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Well no, isn’t that the point of a specific 5% reduction? There is nuance and potential problems for some here, I see it clearly and there 100% must be mitigation for these cases. (As I hear there is) but a reduction is what we need and achieving one is the aim here. People inherently don’t like change in general and that offers as much of a challenge as anything to be honest. Maybe we need a better way of imposing such tariffs, but we do need a way.

It doesn’t need to be tariffed at all, successive governments have allowed the production of cars and vans that people have spent thousands on. How about they pick up the bill for the poorest instead of pricing them out the game entirely and making them pariahs? Then remove VAT for electric cars and ensure that production meets demand.

[Dahnsouff]

33 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It doesn’t need to be tariffed at all, successive governments have allowed the production of cars and vans that people have spent thousands on. How about they pick up the bill for the poorest instead of pricing them out the game entirely and making them pariahs? Then remove VAT for electric cars and ensure that production meets demand.

I get what you mean, Governments got us here, loving their taxing on producers but now we need to limit their usage, they impose further cost to those who previously were consumers and of course it will effect those with less most. The issue then becomes that it cannot mean we maintain the status quo (side note: we cannot continue making vehicular transport so goddamn aspirational) but the government has to cover the costs for those unable to bear the costs on their own

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

I get what you mean, Governments got us here, loving their taxing on producers but now we need to limit their usage, they impose further cost to those who previously were consumers and of course it will effect those with less most. The issue then becomes that it cannot mean we maintain the status quo (side note: we cannot continue making vehicular transport so goddamn aspirational) but the government has to cover the costs for those unable to bear the costs on their own

They should encourage not punish, make getting electric vehicles a win not a begrudging decision.

I don’t disagree we need to move away from combustion vehicles but this is not the way. 
We can discuss the side note another time but right now it’s not practical without infrastructure to do so.

[Wortho]

So if all these restrictions were put in place, Mayor Khan has promised the public will live an extra 13 minutes. 
The income could be £400m in the first year, but it’s certain to rise.

 

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Wortho said:

So if all these restrictions were put in place, Mayor Khan has promised the public will live an extra 13 minutes. 
The income could be £400m in the first year, but it’s certain to rise.

 

Have you seen Julie’s ULEZ map?

It shows which camera locations have been put out of action 😂 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1Us9USuI5Vn4TenF8pVEKHCgUPtfN7pM&ll=51.637312647311916%2C-0.14704985898762235&z=9&fbclid=IwAR2E8nwhFwMzv2zCm3iBm0n3YN7DWR-h54NV8LtD_jsCvNM3Aa3qxt5AH6Y

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

How can that be? We aren’t imposing further data points, operating across existing boundaries perhaps, but that feels like a bit of a cop out if I am honest.

Could be well wide of the mark, but does not feel insurmountable.

The argument is that the red tape is not efficient and costly and the cut off points result in many claimants on the borderline missing out. 

[Ian Nacho]

The TV show Friends is awful.