This current team: only successful when it has a point to prove?

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

Had a conversation over the weekend with another premier league fan, who told me 'that's about your level now, you've got too many players with nothing to prove, no hunger....they'll do alright when they've got a point to prove but apart from that you've got a lot of players on too much money who wouldn't get it elsewhere'.

 

I'm not sure if I entirely agree, however if you looked at it on the face of it he might have a point. The record in the Premiership could be summed up as follows:

 

2014/15: Started well when everyone said we'd struggle, beat United then went on a horrible run, complacency perhaps? Then when everyone said we were dead and buried pulled off the most miraculous run ever to stay up comfortably.

2015/16: Told we were going to be relegated, won the league.

2016/17: Started poorly, got worse, got called snakes, the manager was sacked then again went on a crazy run, in the league and the champions league. As soon as safety was assured looked a different team

2017/18: Tough run to start, manager gets sacked, players get called snakes again, Puel gets a reaction, then with safety virtually assured in January, Mahrez has a tantrum and form tails off.

 

We do seem to be an incredibly streaky side, and the record under Puel is virtually identical to Shakespeare. It does just make me wonder if motivation is a big factor with this side, without a point to prove or something to go after, we tail off massively.

 

I'd be interested in people's view - Puel certainly has his faults, but i'm wondering what more he could get out of this group of players, most of whom have achieved more than they ever thought they would and new players seemingly unable to settle in a tight dressing room. I wonder if this summer is the time for a total rebuild as some have alluded to.

Edited 5 March 2018 by Abrasive fox

[st albans fox]

will let you know after the Chelsea game 

[rachhere]

I don't know about the whole point to prove thing, but I do definitely agree that a lack of hunger is one feature that distinguishes us from the big five (we can now drop Arsenal and call it a big five, right?!). Just their work rate throughout a match, constantly pressing forwards to score goals and never seeming satisfied with being 1-0 up, instead wanting to bury a side. 

[davieG]

The team and the fans have always been ones that only get going when something upsets them, generally a ref decision but also when they are underestimated and denigrated by the media and other teams.

Part of our success in winning the league was down to the sneering attitude of the football world it also impacted on our recovery after Ranieri was sacked.

 

Now we've reached a point where the media are tipping us to do well when what we need is for them to slag us off.

[Captain...]

I don't know about a point to prove, but they don't look fired up at the moment, hopefully Mahrez last minute equaliser will get that buzz back and get them fired up against West Brom, then we can crack on.

[Leeds Fox]

1 hour ago, rachhere said:

I don't know about the whole point to prove thing, but I do definitely agree that a lack of hunger is one feature that distinguishes us from the big five (we can now drop Arsenal and call it a big five, right?!). Just their work rate throughout a match, constantly pressing forwards to score goals and never seeming satisfied with being 1-0 up, instead wanting to bury a side. 

 

Assuming you didn’t see how Chelsea played yesterday. That was a pathetic performance from the reigning champions.

 

Regarding us in reference to the OP. I think we’re just not good enough to be consistent. It’s so much easier to under-perform when there’s nothing at stake and to peak when there’s something to play for. 

[ScouseFox]

let's hope so, cos we've got a lot to prove in the next 2 months. prove we're good enough to win a trophy and prove we're good enough to be in Europe. cheers boys. 

[rachhere]

24 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

Assuming you didn’t see how Chelsea played yesterday. That was a pathetic performance from the reigning champions.

 

Regarding us in reference to the OP. I think we’re just not good enough to be consistent. It’s so much easier to under-perform when there’s nothing at stake and to peak when there’s something to play for. 

Fair point. I didn't, but have heard.  

 

Surely though a chance to finish seventh and get in the Europa League is something to play for? 

[Leeds Fox]

Just now, rachhere said:

Fair point. I didn't, but have heard.  

 

Surely though a chance to finish seventh and get in the Europa League is something to play for? 

 

I agree, that should be enough to motivate them. 

 

Being a proffesional should be enough but it’s human nature to push the boundaries when something tangible is within reach. 

[Monsell1976]

2 hours ago, Abrasive fox said:

Had a conversation over the weekend with another premier league fan, who told me 'that's about your level now, you've got too many players with nothing to prove, no hunger....they'll do alright when they've got a point to prove but apart from that you've got a lot of players on too much money who wouldn't get it elsewhere'.

 

I'm not sure if I entirely agree, however if you looked at it on the face of it he might have a point. The record in the Premiership could be summed up as follows:

 

2014/15: Started well when everyone said we'd struggle, beat United then went on a horrible run, complacency perhaps? Then when everyone said we were dead and buried pulled off the most miraculous run ever to stay up comfortably.

2015/16: Told we were going to be relegated, won the league.

2016/17: Started poorly, got worse, got called snakes, the manager was sacked then again went on a crazy run, in the league and the champions league. As soon as safety was assured looked a different team

2017/18: Tough run to start, manager gets sacked, players get called snakes again, Puel gets a reaction, then with safety virtually assured in January, Mahrez has a tantrum and form tails off.

 

We do seem to be an incredibly streaky side, and the record under Puel is virtually identical to Shakespeare. It does just make me wonder if motivation is a big factor with this side, without a point to prove or something to go after, we tail off massively.

 

I'd be interested in people's view - Puel certainly has his faults, but i'm wondering what more he could get out of this group of players, most of whom have achieved more than they ever thought they would and new players seemingly unable to settle in a tight dressing room. I wonder if this summer is the time for a total rebuild as some have alluded to.

To be fair he has a point, we assembled a team that nobody had heard of, or nobody wanted.

 They have come here worked hard, and now have the money and lifestyle of superstars.

 They, us, everyone realises that the achievement of winning the league will probably never happen again, so just doing enough attitude could be there.

 

But for me that’s just part of it, we have average players, paid to much, and can play excellent at times, but cannot do it consistently, a manager trying to change the philosophy of the team, and some players not being technically good enough.

 

 I could go on and on, but the point I’m trying to get across is there are lots of reasons.

[rachhere]

6 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

I agree, that should be enough to motivate them. 

 

Being a proffesional should be enough but it’s human nature to push the boundaries when something tangible is within reach. 

Definitely - e.g. lots of people need the motivation of deadlines to make them work at (or near) full capacity. 

[rn9013]

I suppose there is a validity to this argument. I'm thinking about many of these players (Simpson, Morgan, Albrighton etc) as a human being and putting myself in their shoes. They know they are unlikely to ever play for another top club, and have achieved a PL winners medal and played in the QF's of the champions league-far more than they ever thought they would. As a result, is there the potential that these guys are now happy to sit in a tight dressing room, happy and content that they have a winners medal to cherish.......I think it is a possibility. In that frame of mind it would be easy to understand why we seem unable to get up for the mid-table type games. 

[sylofox]

19 minutes ago, rn9013 said:

I suppose there is a validity to this argument. I'm thinking about many of these players (Simpson, Morgan, Albrighton etc) as a human being and putting myself in their shoes. They know they are unlikely to ever play for another top club, and have achieved a PL winners medal and played in the QF's of the champions league-far more than they ever thought they would. As a result, is there the potential that these guys are now happy to sit in a tight dressing room, happy and content that they have a winners medal to cherish.......I think it is a possibility. In that frame of mind it would be easy to understand why we seem unable to get up for the mid-table type games. 

Sorry not as a fan. If I was one of our champions and played in Europe I would be looking at our league position thinking fvck that I want some more.

 

If motivation is a problem and a possible 6th place don't motivate then time to feck them off. And yes 6th was very possible.

 

Oh also add the chance to laugh at arse again.

 

Wow I hate to say this but perhaps we should take spuds lead. Pay a lower wage but a far higher win bonus.

 

Make the feckers work for the money like we have to.

[Stadt]

Isn't it true for all teams?

[Zevaristi]

30 minutes ago, Wookie said:

Isn't it true for all teams?

Maybe not, I think the question is: how the managers & board deal with it? just an example, Juventus won the Serie A 6 times in a row and this year they are chasing the 7th, they're still hungry, it's a culture that we cannot afford, since our WoW season we still have only one decent #9, we still use a DM as a right back and and and... just remind me the last time we have bought a proven Premier League player!

[Stadt]

Just now, Zevaristi said:

Maybe not, I think the question is: how the managers & board deal with it? just an example, Juventus won the Serie A 6 times in a row and this year they are chasing the 7th, they're still hungry, it's a culture that we cannot afford, since our WoW season we still have only one decent #9, we still use a DM as a right back and and and... just remind me the last time we have bought a proven Premier League player!

Juventus are the most successful club in Italy, we're an ambitious provincial club. They have the resources and prestige to continue to attract the best players in Italy and to some extent the world. 

 

"Proven premier league player" is a myth, would you rather have Jake Livermore in midfield or N'Didi? Kante, Okazaki and Fuchs weren't proven Premier league players but Iheanacho is for example - what matters is ability, not experience.

[RutlanderFox]

If they read this forum they constantly have a point to prove  

[SheppyFox]

The way the team celebrated Mahrez’ goal gave me encouragement