Ronaldo vs Messi

[shen]

Self-explanatory topic.

This argument is clogging up multiple threads and these GOATs probably deserve their own battle arena.

So can it please be kept in here?

 

I'll get the ball rolling.

 

Messi > Ronaldo because I think so

[MrSpaM]

Ronaldo's proven himself in the premier league and won more on the world stage, so it's Ronaldo every day for me

[Ted Maul]

This era- Messi.

 

All time- probably Pele, followed by Maradona, Cruyff & Puskas because they all completely revolutionised football in their respective eras. I wouldn't put Messi or Ronaldo in that bracket.

[Finnegan]

Marc Albrighton 

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

This era- Messi.

 

All time- probably Pele, followed by Maradona, Cruyff & Puskas because they all completely revolutionised football in their respective eras. I wouldn't put Messi or Ronaldo in that bracket.

 

Out of interest, how old are you / how many of those players did you watch at the time? 

 

Not being snarky, I know we've got quite a few older members here. 

[shen]

2 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

This era- Messi.

 

All time- probably Pele, followed by Maradona, Cruyff & Puskas because they all completely revolutionised football in their respective eras. I wouldn't put Messi or Ronaldo in that bracket.

As athletes judged on skill and physique, I think few can argue against Messi or Ronaldo at this point in time. Football has developed a lot in the past 20 years.

Messi and Ronaldo are, and have been, the pinnacle for the past decade. Being at the top as long as they have in a far more competitive environment as the other legends speaks volumes.

[Ted Maul]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Out of interest, how old are you / how many of those players did you watch at the time? 

 

Not being snarky, I know we've got quite a few older members here. 

I'm not old enough to remember any of them playing, so going by highlights and their legacy on the game- Mighty Magyars, total football, 1970, Napoli and all that.

 

I suppose time will tell on Ronaldo & Messi. Maybe I'm just a bit of a traditionalist & anti-modern football 

[Ted Maul]

5 minutes ago, shen said:

As athletes judged on skill and physique, I think few can argue against Messi or Ronaldo at this point in time. Football has developed a lot in the past 20 years.

Messi and Ronaldo are, and have been, the pinnacle for the past decade. Being at the top as long as they have in a far more competitive environment as the other legends speaks volumes.

I'm not sure about that. Yes, all footballers these days are athletes and there are far more great players around, but it certainly isn't more difficult. Pitches are all carpets these days, balls are far more advanced and defenders are barely allowed to touch attackers without giving away free kicks.

[Finnegan]

55 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

I'm not old enough to remember any of them playing, so going by highlights and their legacy on the game- Mighty Magyars, total football, 1970, Napoli and all that.

 

I suppose time will tell on Ronaldo & Messi. Maybe I'm just a bit of a traditionalist & anti-modern football 

 

There's a trend across almost all culture to be resistant to calling anything the "best ever" unless it has stood up to "the test of time."

 

I think there's also a trend of romanticising the past and overstating the quality of things from former eras. 

 

Books, art, music, film, etc are all the same as football. 

 

I'm personally of the opinion that Messi and Ronaldo are pretty much the two best players to ever play the game. What I would say is that if Pele, Van Basten, Puscas etc had the opportunities, the training, the fitness, the sports science, the technology in balls and boots etc then who knows? Maybe they'd compete. 

 

But I think we've become a little desensitised to just how good these two are because we've seen it for a decade and it's just become normal to us. 

 

But it isn't at all. They've just destroyed all records that went before them in an era when defenders are as fit, strong, fast, organised and tactically advanced as they ever have been. 

 

Ronaldo is by far the greatest athlete out of any "legend" of the game, he's a freak of nature. And nobody has ever been as consistently ridiculous with a foot as Messi has been with his left. It's frankly absurd. 

 

I used to be very much Team Messi but the more I age, the more I just can't be arsed arguing the toss. I think if you're so entrenched supporting one that you can't appreciate the genius of the other then you're doing yourself a disservice. 

Edited 28 June 2018 by Finnegan

[Donut]

Im more a fan of Messi's style of play, but I think Ronaldo is the more complete player.

 

CURRENTLY Ronaldo is the better player, career by career its close

 

Just something about the fact Messi is left footed that makes him even better, love that trademark come in off the right, beat a man and shoot across the keeper.

[TiffToff88]

I think the best way to settle the argument is by asking who you would prefer in our team. And for me, that would be Messi. Ronaldo is a brilliant footballer but his arrogance and selfishness on the pitch lets him down.

 

Messi is world class, scores brilliant individual goals but doesn't get pissed off when a teammate scores instead of him.

[shen]

7 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

I'm not sure about that. Yes, all footballers these days are athletes and there are far more great players around, but it certainly isn't more difficult. Pitches are all carpets these days, balls are far more advanced and defenders are barely allowed to touch attackers without giving away free kicks.

Except it is. The pace of the game has approximately doubled. Take virtually any game from the 70/80's and watch how slow the pace is. Teams could casually walk with the ball and pass it around in defense, there was not a lot of coordinated pressing going on giving players plenty of time to evaluate their options or carry the ball forward. The idea that you needed a goalkeeper who was also a good football player would have been ridiculed then.

 

The fact balls are more advanced, I don't feel, is a good argument. Players adapt to their tool and while the ball has certainly changed the game, it hasn't necessarily made it easier for the players.

 

Defenders not being able to touch attackers is not indicative of skill either. Obviously Maradona, Pele etc were great on the ball and they would face brutal rugby tackles or studs slamming their knees routinely. Doesn't make them comparable to contemporary footballers though.

 

I'm not arguing their legendary status as without them, would we have had a Messi or Ronaldo? The best of the best are inspiring future generations to match them and surpass them and I'm sure we'll see talents in 10-20 years rivalling Messi and Ronaldo as some of the best in history.

[shen]

6 minutes ago, TiffToff88 said:

I think the best way to settle the argument is by asking who you would prefer in our team. And for me, that would be Messi. Ronaldo is a brilliant footballer but his arrogance and selfishness on the pitch lets him down.

 

Messi is world class, scores brilliant individual goals but doesn't get pissed off when a teammate scores instead of him.

Messi has run the least of all players at this World Cup I believe. He's a liability when defending.

Not saying Ronaldo is much better here, but there is an arrogance from Messi as well.

Don't be fooled by that often calm exterior.

 

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, shen said:

Messi has run the least of all players at this World Cup I believe. He's a liability when defending.

Not saying Ronaldo is much better here, but there is an arrogance from Messi as well.

Don't be fooled by that often calm exterior.

 

 

Messi's laziness has irritated me greatly watching him for Argentina. 

 

I'll defend incidents like the gif though because the guy gets the absolute shit kicked out of him every game he plays for 90 minutes and very rarely reacts. 

 

When he does get annoyed I think its pretty understandable. 

[Donut]

15 minutes ago, shen said:

Messi has run the least of all players at this World Cup I believe. He's a liability when defending.

Not saying Ronaldo is much better here, but there is an arrogance from Messi as well.

Don't be fooled by that often calm exterior.

 

Hardly the most violent of reactions really was it? probably take about 10 minutes after a filthy Croatian had stamped on the Argentinian players ankle deliberately

[shen]

39 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Messi's laziness has irritated me greatly watching him for Argentina. 

 

I'll defend incidents like the gif though because the guy gets the absolute shit kicked out of him every game he plays for 90 minutes and very rarely reacts. 

 

When he does get annoyed I think its pretty understandable. 

 

25 minutes ago, Donut said:

Hardly the most violent of reactions really was it? probably take about 10 minutes after a filthy Croatian had stamped on the Argentinian players ankle deliberately

I only used the gif to illustrate that he's not always mild-tempered. For the record, I fully understand his reaction and, no, it is not that violent.

While he does get fouled a lot, he's also learned to milk a lot of challenges.
 

I really like watching Messi, but I sometimes get the feeling that he believes the hype around him.

It's clear he understands his status in world football and as a result you see him acting 'untouchable' on the field.

[ScouseFox]

1 hour ago, TiffToff88 said:

I think the best way to settle the argument is by asking who you would prefer in our team. And for me, that would be Messi. Ronaldo is a brilliant footballer but his arrogance and selfishness on the pitch lets him down.

 

Messi is world class, scores brilliant individual goals but doesn't get pissed off when a teammate scores instead of him.

btw this is not aimed at you, but 

 

this view is the reason this “debate” gets me. i don’t care who people think is better at footy (although its obviously ronaldo), you can argue for both. i’d say messi was outdoing ronaldo early on this decade but for the past 3 or 4 years it’s a non-contest. 

 

but the view that messi is a saint and ronaldo is a scumbag is just laughable. messi is a vile little man, who is more self centred than ronaldo by a distance. ronaldo does a few fashion shoots and looks better than messi and people get worked up. messi genuinely retired from international football because the rest of his team was a bit rubbish and they blamed him for missing a penalty. ronaldo drags his even worse team to competitions and captains them with pride every time he steps onto the pitch. 

 

outrageous that people still believe this messi narrative. 

[Ted Maul]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

There's a trend across almost all culture to be resistant to calling anything the "best ever" unless it has stood up to "the test of time."

 

I think there's also a trend of romanticising the past and overstating the quality of things from former eras. 

 

Books, art, music, film, etc are all the same as football. 

 

I'm personally of the opinion that Messi and Ronaldo are pretty much the two best players to ever play the game. What I would say is that if Pele, Van Basten, Puscas etc had the opportunities, the training, the fitness, the sports science, the technology in balls and boots etc then who knows? Maybe they'd compete. 

 

But I think we've become a little desensitised to just how good these two are because we've seen it for a decade and it's just become normal to us. 

 

But it isn't at all. They've just destroyed all records that went before them in an era when defenders are as fit, strong, fast, organised and tactically advanced as they ever have been. 

 

Ronaldo is by far the greatest athlete out of any "legend" of the game, he's a freak of nature. And nobody has ever been as consistently ridiculous with a foot as Messi has been with his left. It's frankly absurd. 

 

I used to be very much Team Messi but the more I age, the more I just can't be arsed arguing the toss. I think if you're so entrenched supporting one that you can't appreciate the genius of the other then you're doing yourself a disservice. 

 

I suppose it's difficult to compare eras. For every argument to suggest that past greats would have struggled with the intensity & pace of the modern game, there's another to suggest that current greats wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes against uncompromising defenders looking to injure them at every opportunity. 

 

They're all great players in their own right, and they achieved greatness based on what they came up against during their time.

 

My view on who is actually the greatest is based on how those players drove football forward and influenced changes in formations, tactics, etc. I suppose Messi was part of the Barca side who helped to develop tiki-taka, but I'd say Iniesta & Xavi were more influential in that respect.

[shen]

57 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

I suppose it's difficult to compare eras. For every argument to suggest that past greats would have struggled with the intensity & pace of the modern game, there's another to suggest that current greats wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes against uncompromising defenders looking to injure them at every opportunity. 

 

They're all great players in their own right, and they achieved greatness based on what they came up against during their time.

 

My view on who is actually the greatest is based on how those players drove football forward and influenced changes in formations, tactics, etc. I suppose Messi was part of the Barca side who helped to develop tiki-taka, but I'd say Iniesta & Xavi were more influential in that respect.

It is not fair to compare across eras, for the very same reasons I and Finnegan have already mentioned.

Claiming that Ronaldo and Messi don't face horrible challenges aimed to injure them is also a myth:

 

 

I'm not trying to seek an argument for argument's sake here, but the whole False Nine concept is basically Messi in a nutshell. Spain dominated for years on the international scene with a False Nine and Barcelona did so too. It's frankly bewildering to read that you don't think he has driven football forward and influenced changes in tactics.

Obviously, the success of these sides owe a large debt to Iniesta and Xavi who I would comfortably put among the best midfielders ever, but Messi defined a role and has on so many occasions 'single-handedly' won games for his teams (as has Ronaldo for that matter).

Either way, I just wanted to start this thread so it doesn't clog up half the World Cup threads. It's not like this debate hasn't been done to death already and I just want to enjoy both players (and the World Cup) without having to hear or read about "X being better than Y because..."

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Ted Maul said:

I suppose it's difficult to compare eras. For every argument to suggest that past greats would have struggled with the intensity & pace of the modern game, there's another to suggest that current greats wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes against uncompromising defenders looking to injure them at every opportunity. 

 

They're all great players in their own right, and they achieved greatness based on what they came up against during their time.

 

My view on who is actually the greatest is based on how those players drove football forward and influenced changes in formations, tactics, etc. I suppose Messi was part of the Barca side who helped to develop tiki-taka, but I'd say Iniesta & Xavi were more influential in that respect.

 

I'm sorry but the idea that defenders were harder back in the day is just nuts nall. They're bigger, stronger and faster now and have you seen the state of some of the tackles in this world cup!? 

 

Even for his club, Messi, frequently gets the crap booted out of him. I've never seen him shrink from it, he just gets up and carries on. 

 

If I were a top flight forward I'd rather play against Vinnie Jones every day of the week than Ngolo Kante, for example. You don't need to be a violent nutter to be hard to play against. 

 

Ronaldo is about six two and built like a body builder, you really think Chopper Harris would have scared him? He'd just leave him for dust. 

[glenny_fox]

Messi for me is the most naturally talented player I have ever seen. Everything just seems to come naturally to him whereas Ronaldo, I think, is by far the better professional & role model (despite peoples opinion of him). The dedication he has shown to be the most complete player is incredible.

 

The fact that Ronaldo has succeeded with Brilliant teams (Real Madrid & Man Utd) but also dragged poor teams (Portugal) to success, whereas Messi has only ever done it with brilliant players around him at Barca leads me to think that Ronaldo has had the better career as a team player.

 

But regardless of who is better, I think everyone will agree that these two are freaks of nature to have done of for as long as they have and that we are all lucky to witness two greats of the game at the same time.

[Samilktray]

2 best players to ever play the game and I'm not having any pseudo football nerds tell me some clogger from the 50s was better than either of them tbh 

[Nick]

14 minutes ago, glenny_fox said:

Messi for me is the most naturally talented player I have ever seen. Everything just seems to come naturally to him whereas Ronaldo, I think, is by far the better professional & role model (despite peoples opinion of him). The dedication he has shown to be the most complete player is incredible.

 

The fact that Ronaldo has succeeded with Brilliant teams (Real Madrid & Man Utd) but also dragged poor teams (Portugal) to success, whereas Messi has only ever done it with brilliant players around him at Barca leads me to think that Ronaldo has had the better career as a team player.

 

But regardless of who is better, I think everyone will agree that these two are freaks of nature to have done of for as long as they have and that we are all lucky to witness two greats of the game at the same time.

Ronaldo a professional and role model?

 

Maybe in his fitness levels and approach to training and development but in terms of his lying, cheating and gamesmanship no child should hold him in any esteem as a sporting role model and he should already have been sent off in this World Cup for diving. I hope he gets chinned.

[StanSP]

used to get involved in debates like this but simply just appreciate that both are playing at the same time and we have the privilege to watch them do so. 

Immense talents and 2 of the best players, ever, in the history of the game.

[glenny_fox]

58 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Ronaldo a professional and role model?

 

Maybe in his fitness levels and approach to training and development but in terms of his lying, cheating and gamesmanship no child should hold him in any esteem as a sporting role model and he should already have been sent off in this World Cup for diving. I hope he gets chinned.

I think I'd struggle to name a handful of players that would never dive. unfortunately it's part of the game now.

 

In terms of being a role model he is the definition of what hard work, dedication & desire can get you. Also, the off the field stuff that he does with fans (ignoring tax fraud...) always goes unnoticed.