International Mens Day

[H.a.r.r.y]

Has anyone else only just realized this was a thing and was today???

considering all the companies that back Woman's day have done nothing for today, such as Buzzfeed

 

seems like now no one cares in comparison

 

 

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/scaachikoul/tk-ways-to-celebrate-international-mens-day

Edited 20 November 2018 by H.a.r.r.y

[Carl the Llama]

Didn't know about this but living in an oppressive patriarchy every day is man's day so it doesn't matter.

[Carl the Llama]

Don't @ me, Buce  

[urban.spaceman]

There does seem to have been a slightly bigger fuss for it this year, at least on social media, with more and more people starting to take men’s issues more seriously. Which they should. The biggest killer or men under 45 is suicide. Men need help too so it’s good that there’s a bit of focus on these issues for once. 

 

 

Its just a shame that there’s still the usual suspects like Buzzfeed who are comfortable posting such misandrist filth. They complain about toxic masculinity yet they’re just as toxic themselves. 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

There does seem to have been a slightly bigger fuss for it this year, at least on social media, with more and more people starting to take men’s issues more seriously. Which they should. The biggest killer or men under 45 is suicide. Men need help too so it’s good that there’s a bit of focus on these issues for once. 

 

 

Its just a shame that there’s still the usual suspects like Buzzfeed who are comfortable posting such misandrist filth. They complain about toxic masculinity yet they’re just as toxic themselves. 

This is all true; however, I believe the point that some are trying to make is that these occurrences are a thing because of the system we live in - which is by and large created by, and run for...other men.

 

These issues and the issues that women face are two sides of the same coin from the same source.

[Nalis]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

This is all true; however, I believe the point that some are trying to make is that these occurrences are a thing because of the system we live in - which is by and large created by, and run for...other men.

 

These issues and the issues that women face are two sides of the same coin from the same source.

Would 'some' include domestic violence against men in that same bracket?

[Captain...]

25 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Would 'some' include domestic violence against men in that same bracket?

Yes because the men that are victims of domestic abuse are not the ‘patriarchy’ they are victims of it unable to seek help because they are ashamed that they are being abused by a woman because it has been drummed into them from early ages that men are strong and women are weak. Men should not cry and seek help and being a victim is because you’re weak.

[Buce]

6 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Don't @ me, Buce  

 

 

No, you're right, Carl.

 

And while we're at it, when are we going to have a White Friday?

 

 

6 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

There does seem to have been a slightly bigger fuss for it this year, at least on social media, with more and more people starting to take men’s issues more seriously. Which they should. The biggest killer or men under 45 is suicide. Men need help too so it’s good that there’s a bit of focus on these issues for once. 

 

 

Its just a shame that there’s still the usual suspects like Buzzfeed who are comfortable posting such misandrist filth. They complain about toxic masculinity yet they’re just as toxic themselves. 

 

Guess what the biggest killer of men under 25 is, Spacecake?

 

Other men.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

That statistics thing is all negative, Women's Day celebrates mostly achievements

 

Has anyone done an infographic about all the inventions, scientific and medical breakthroughs by men? The famous male musicians, singers, poets, sportsmen etc.

[Mike Oxlong]

51 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

And while we're at it, when are we going to have a White Friday?

 

We have the whole of Christmas for that. 

 

 

[Guest]

As men, Do we really care?

 

The world has gone soft.

[Carl the Llama]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

 

No, you're right, Carl.

 

And while we're at it, when are we going to have a White Friday?

 

 

 

Guess what the biggest killer of men under 25 is, Spacecake?

 

Other men.

Let's be fair though, there isn't much substance to the narrative that women are oppressed in western cultures:  Nobody praises spousal abusers and rapists; the wage gap's a misleading statistic which fails to take into account personal life choices/needs or the basic economic fact that if companies could get away with paying equally well-trained women less for the same amount of work then then men would find it almost impossible to compete in the workplace; Theresa May, Angela Merkel, Nicola Sturgeon, Jacinda Ardern, Erna Solberg etc. would not be allowed to become the heads of state in a true patriarchy; a woman's vote counts for just as much as a man's; the recent BBC pay review that famously revealed the disparities between high-profile males and females to much media fanfare also resulted in more men in the general dogsbody positions needing pay bumps to bring them in line with what their female colleagues were earning  (this received less media fanfare and was strongly argued against by some feminists for being unfair somehow); etc.  Then of course you have all the disparities in suicide rates, homelessness, high-risk employment, refuse collection and so on and so forth.

 

So of course most deadly assaults are carried out by men, we're generally more physically capable of such evils, that doesn't mean we're more prone to them or that every man should be held guilty for it. Usually these individuals are a result of their social status and economic situation, it's far too simplistic to say that they did a wrong because they have a dangly appendage between their legs.  Punish the bad people who do bad things, don't tell 50% of the population they're somehow part of the problem because of the circumstances of their birth.

 

4 minutes ago, FIF said:

As men, Do we really care?

 

The world has gone soft.

About having an international men's day?  Not at all   You may have guessed by now though that I do get a bit irate at the narrative about evil patriarchy when the poorest, most oppressed members of society are men while women's issues are taken much more seriously by and large.  

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Let's be fair though, there isn't much substance to the narrative that women are oppressed in western cultures:  Nobody praises spousal abusers and rapists; the wage gap's a misleading statistic which fails to take into account personal life choices/needs or the basic economic fact that if companies could get away with paying equally well-trained women less for the same amount of work then then men would find it almost impossible to compete in the workplace; Theresa May, Angela Merkel, Nicola Sturgeon, Jacinda Ardern, Erna Solberg etc. would not be allowed to become the heads of state in a true patriarchy; a woman's vote counts for just as much as a man's; the recent BBC pay review that famously revealed the disparities between high-profile males and females to much media fanfare also resulted in more men in the general dogsbody positions needing pay bumps to bring them in line with what their female colleagues were earning  (this received less media fanfare and was strongly argued against by some feminists for being unfair somehow); etc.  Then of course you have all the disparities in suicide rates, homelessness, high-risk employment, refuse collection and so on and so forth.

 

So of course most deadly assaults are carried out by men, we're generally more physically capable of such evils, that doesn't mean we're more prone to them or that every man should be held guilty for it. Usually these individuals are a result of their social status and economic situation, it's far too simplistic to say that they did a wrong because they have a dangly appendage between their legs.  Punish the bad people who do bad things, don't tell 50% of the population they're somehow part of the problem because of the circumstances of their birth.

 

About having an international men's day?  Not at all   You may have guessed by now though that I do get a bit irate at the narrative about evil patriarchy when the poorest, most oppressed members of society are men while women's issues are taken much more seriously by and large.  

Men? Women?  People. 

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, Nalis said:

Would 'some' include domestic violence against men in that same bracket?

Was going to answer this put the Cap pretty much did it for me.

 

Those women are to blame for the DV incidents themselves, but they are most decidedly not to blame for the creation of a legislative and social climate where such incidents, though not applauded as Carl above says, are certainly not examined enough - the statistics speak for themselves there.

[Guest MattP]

Is this what steak and blowjob day used to be? 

[Finnaldo]

10 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

There does seem to have been a slightly bigger fuss for it this year, at least on social media, with more and more people starting to take men’s issues more seriously. Which they should. The biggest killer or men under 45 is suicide. Men need help too so it’s good that there’s a bit of focus on these issues for once. 

 

 

Its just a shame that there’s still the usual suspects like Buzzfeed who are comfortable posting such misandrist filth. They complain about toxic masculinity yet they’re just as toxic themselves. 

 

There's fact here but also rather misleading figures.

 

70% of homicide victims are men, but they likely make up a similar if not higher number of the perpetrators. Same regarding victims of violent crime, and both together answer why they on average men serve more time than women. Beyond that, the issue with these rather simplistic infographics is that they fail to recognise context in regards to these figures. 

 

However I have seen proper studies into homelessness, suicide rates and sentence ruling and these are all genuine concerns that are often overshadowed or underplayed within activism. In fact i saw one study suggest domestic abuse could be nearer 50/50 and in some cases, under certain variables show men suffer higher rates than women. I imagine the downplaying of this is a result of the toxic masculinity narrative.

 

Toxic Masculinity always confused me. Aggression was a necessary value in the progress of early human civilisation up to fairly recently, and even now it has been severely toned down and replaced with much more innocuous social competitiveness. Outright violence is by and large condemned by the majority of the male population, any threads regarding hooliganism on this board are genuinely derided by almost all who comment and those who speak positively of it are often mocked. If 'toxic masculinity' was as ingrained as we are to believe, you'd think that on a football board, in an extremely tribalistic subculture by general societal standards, that this kind of action would surely be seen as a lot more savoury as it is currently? This feeds into what Carl says regarding domestic violence and rapists.

 

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Was going to answer this put the Cap pretty much did it for me.

 

Those women are to blame for the DV incidents themselves, but they are most decidedly not to blame for the creation of a legislative and social climate where such incidents, though not applauded as Carl above says, are certainly not examined enough - the statistics speak for themselves there.

 

Domestic violence is a naturally difficult, cases seem to either be fairly clean cut and straight forward case or a complete mess where it can be hard to truly discern who the victim is. One true life example I witnessed was a woman turning up, pissed, to her former partner's house unannounced, slapping him and vocally abusing him until the police was called for a domestic disturbance. The guy is fairly stoic and hadn't been particularly bruised or marked from the attack and when the police came and saw a bloke standing calm next to a woman crying in hysterics they arrested him and he spent the night at the station.  

 

Although he obviously got off and ultimately refused to press charges it shows how confusing one-on-one crimes and issues can be, who truly 'started' it and how much damage was done malevolently, in self defence, etc. It's a legislative nightmare when ultimately its their word against the other's, especially its its out public eye.

[Carl the Llama]

19 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Was going to answer this put the Cap pretty much did it for me.

 

Those women are to blame for the DV incidents themselves, but they are most decidedly not to blame for the creation of a legislative and social climate where such incidents, though not applauded as Carl above says, are certainly not examined enough - the statistics speak for themselves there.

As far as I'm aware the problem is usually one of evidence and proof. Nobody wants to see a rapist get away with their crimes.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Domestic violence is a naturally difficult, cases seem to either be fairly clean cut and straight forward case or a complete mess where it can be hard to truly discern who the victim is. One true life example I witnessed was a woman turning up, pissed, to her former partner's house unannounced, slapping him and vocally abusing him until the police was called for a domestic disturbance. The guy is fairly stoic and hadn't been particularly bruised or marked from the attack and when the police came and saw a bloke standing calm next to a woman crying in hysterics they arrested him and he spent the night at the station.  

 

Although he obviously got off and ultimately refused to press charges it shows how confusing one-on-one crimes and issues can be, who truly 'started' it and how much damage was done malevolently, in self defence, etc. It's a legislative nightmare when ultimately its their word against the other's, especially its its out public eye.

 

 

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

As far as I'm aware the problem is usually one of evidence and proof. Nobody wants to see a rapist get away with their crimes.

There's something in that - it's similar to rape cases, sadly.

 

I still maintain, however, that there is a culture of victim-blaming around such cases that does a disservice to men and women and that doesn't have to exist.

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

 

There's something in that - it's similar to rape cases, sadly.

 

I still maintain, however, that there is a culture of victim-blaming around such cases that does a disservice to men and women and that doesn't have to exist.

Where do you draw the line between good advice and victim blaming, though?  Can't remember where it was but on the back of a rise in assaults one police force recently received a lot of backlash for recommending against walking alone at night with earphones in so you can be more alert to your surroundings and avoid being targeted in the first place (iirc earphones were a commonality between the victims).  That's just common sense given the facts of the case, surely? 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Where do you draw the line between good advice and victim blaming, though?  Can't remember where it was but on the back of a rise in assaults one police force recently received a lot of backlash for recommending against walking alone at night with earphones in so you can be more alert to your surroundings and avoid being targeted in the first place (iirc earphones were a commonality between the victims).  That's just common sense given the facts of the case, surely? 

1

Good question.

 

TBH I'd go with offering advice to people about how to keep themselves safe but all that really does is say "rob/rape/assault the other less protected person". It might help reduce the number of such instances which is, of course, good but it doesn't actually do much to make the general environment safer - that only comes with reducing the number of such people who will do such things in the first place.

 

And I certainly wouldn't offer such advice to someone who has recently been the victim of a violent attack of some kind - some people call it tough love, I call it being an unempathetic ****.

[Carl the Llama]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Good question.

 

TBH I'd go with offering advice to people about how to keep themselves safe but all that really does is say "rob/rape/assault the other less protected person". It might help reduce the number of such instances which is, of course, good but it doesn't actually do much to make the general environment safer - that only comes with reducing the number of such people who will do such things in the first place.

 

And I certainly wouldn't offer such advice to someone who has recently been the victim of a violent attack of some kind - some people call it tough love, I call it being an unempathetic ****.

It was a tweet they sent out to let people know what was happening and to warn them. I don't think they told the victims it was their fault for listening to music.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

It was a tweet they sent out to let people know what was happening and to warn them. I don't think they told the victims it was their fault for listening to music.

Right, not referring to the fuzz in this case - more to the smug hangers-on who talk about how hard the world is and are always on hand to give sage advice to someone who's just been beaten up/raped etc.

 

Oh, and the lawyers like the one who said a thong meant that a rape victim obviously consented - though they are of course just doing their job.

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Right, not referring to the fuzz in this case - more to the smug hangers-on who talk about how hard the world is and are always on hand to give sage advice to someone who's just been beaten up/raped etc.

 

Oh, and the lawyers like the one who said a thong meant that a rape victim obviously consented - though they are of course just doing their job.

I was wrong on a few things, here's the article:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-45809169

So no mention of the victims having phones on, it really was just a case of "this shit's happening, be careful in the area, here's how you can maximise your safety".  Calling for the attacker to be named is just daft: for one thing the police clearly didn't have that information yet and for another the last thing you need is to grant fame to the cvnt and inspire other aspiring cvnts.

 

Don't know the deets of that thong case but it sounds like a proper twat move.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

 

 

Don't know the deets of that thong case but it sounds like a proper twat move.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/mother-teenager-took-life-rape-trial-appalled-girls-thong-used/

 

It was, though again I guess as a defence lawyer you have to have a certain moral flexibility to do your job.

[Finnaldo]

26 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

There's something in that - it's similar to rape cases, sadly.

 

I still maintain, however, that there is a culture of victim-blaming around such cases that does a disservice to men and women and that doesn't have to exist.

 

I almost drew the example myself but its an extremely dangerous area to get in to.

 

16 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Good question.

 

TBH I'd go with offering advice to people about how to keep themselves safe but all that really does is say "rob/rape/assault the other less protected person". It might help reduce the number of such instances which is, of course, good but it doesn't actually do much to make the general environment safer - that only comes with reducing the number of such people who will do such things in the first place.

 

Honest question, how do you recommend this is achieved Mac?

 

I've seen this said before but I don't see how, in the same vein of reducing murderers, its a particularly achievable goal.