FT General Election Poll 2019

[Facecloth]

Just now, ealingfox said:

 

My point is that not only is Javid not a Muslim, but Sayeeda Warsi served in Cameron's Cabinet so to describe Javid as Britain's first Muslim Cabinet Minister would be incorrect.

Good point.

[David Guiza]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50388879?ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=news_central

 

[Beechey]

Interested to know what exactly they detected

 

Ah such a lazy attack:

The Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack floods a computer server with traffic to try to take it offline.

A Labour source told the BBC "tens of millions of attacks - mostly originating from Russia and Brazil" had been detected.

Edited 12 November 2019 by Beechey

[Alf Bentley]

14 hours ago, Lionator said:

I'm gutted at the Brexit Party news as my local Labour candidate for Loughborough had a real good shot at the seat which is now probably a safe bet for the tories. He's the sort of MP Labour need more of, not a momentum backed lunatic or a Blairite centrist. 

 

 

I'm afraid that @MattP is almost certainly right. On current polling, Loughborough is likely to have an increased Tory majority regardless. Generally, people vote on national issues and local factors only have a marginal impact on the result.

I learned that lesson in 1983, when I worked on the Labour campaign in Norwich. Both Norwich seats were marginals with well-liked Labour MPs and the local Labour council was well run & popular, at a time of mayhem in Labour nationally.

I'd seen the polls but hoped that local factors meant Labour could hold the seats, but a local councillor told me that he expected both seats to be lost because of the national picture. He was right - the swing in Norwich was less than the national average, but both seats were lost. 

 

If the Con-Lab polling gap tightens to, say, 5%....then helpful factors like a good Lab candidate & late departure of a well-known/liked Tory MP might help your man buck the national trend.....

 

I doubt the Brexit Party withdrawal will have a big impact in Loughborough, will it? Due to the university, the risk of 2017 Labour voters switching to Lib Dems might be more damaging to Labour: if they've any sense, Labour will be ramming the 2017 result down voters' throats to encourage LD->Lab tactical voting.

 

18 hours ago, David Guiza said:

No more of a shot than they already had though? 

 

If one is voting based on wanting Brexit done ASAP then they were never going to vote Labour. Seems to me that the likelihood is that BXP will take just as many potential voters from the Tories as they do from Labour in the marginal seats.

 

Losing voters to the LibDems (or Greens) seems like a far greater risk to Labour, take Kensington for example where Labour have a majority of 20 (which is insane), that constituency voted by 68% to remain. They're hardly going to be flocking in number to vote for the Brexit Party, whereas some of those Labour voters may switch to LibDems and ultimately give the Tories the majority they need. 

 

Where Labour hold marginal seats in Brexit voting consistencies, it seems just as likely that they'll gain blue as red.   

 

This is all very approximate, but if you compare 2015 UKIP votes to 2017 figures, when they crashed badly & didn't stand everywhere....

- In marginal Lab/Con & Con/Lab Leave seats, about 2/3 of 2015 UKIP votes went to the Tories and 1/3 to Labour

- In lots of seats down South with a big 2015 UKIP vote, the split seems to have been about 50-50

 

My best guess on the impact of Farage's partial withdrawal:

- Helps Tories hold Leave marginals in North/Midlands, but on current polling Labour wasn't going to win back many, if any of those, anyway

- Might make little difference in Leave Labour marginals down South

- Not much help to Tories in Lab marginals (key battleground) as they're still standing, for now, but might help Tories if Farage declines due to this "pact"

-  Helps Tories hold Con-Lib Dem marginals in SW, where there's a strong LD voting tradition but also strong Leave support

- Does little to help Tories hold Con-Lib Dem marginals in Remain-voting seats in SE & elsewhere as Farage vote was already low - might flip a couple that are ultra-marginal on the night

 

A vote for Farage might now be seen as a wasted vote due to his partial withdrawal & low poll ratings. But despite those ratings, Brexit Party could still conceivably win a few seats.

Because there'll be more seats where 3 or more parties are in contention, so 25% could be enough to win some seats: e.g. in places like Hartlepool, if the vote splits fairly evenly between Con, Lab & BP with a few voting LD/Green/UKIP.

 

[HappyHamza]

16 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

I’m surprised that the again repeated view of Baroness Warsi, expressed in an interview today, that the Conservative Party is institutionally racist hasn’t received more coverage in the media 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, MattP said:

Probably because she's about the only one saying it.

 

Muslims are being promoted to positions like Chancellor in the Conservative party rather than leaving it. 

There's a long history of racism and islamaphobia going relatively unchallenged in the Tory party:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia_in_the_UK_Conservative_Party_(1997–present)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_UK_Conservative_Party

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-muslim-islamophobia-among-conservative-party-members-boris-johnson-leadership-2019-6

 

http://londonprogressivejournal.com/article/view/2946/ultimate-racists-a-catalogue-of-racism-xenophobia-antisemitism-and-islamophobia-in-the-british-conservative-party

 

What follows is a chronology of allegations and confirmations of prejudice made against Tory politicians and councillors. Boris Johnson deserves a separate article of his own for the racist things he’s said and written. (For a Johnson compilation, see Chapter 2 of my book, The Great Brexit Swindle (2016, Clairview Books)). Years covered in this article are 2015 (when the Tories came into office) to the present.

2015

January: Peter Batty, Tory leader for Hinckley and Bosworth, passed on emails containing jokes about black people and Pakistani flood victims . [vii]

April: The Limbury Mead Residents Page Facebook group run by candidate David Coulter posted in reference to Irish travellers: “Red Alert! Be aware the pikies have moved the car park at the shops [sic]. LOCK YOUR DOORS- GUARD YOUR VEHICLES. It is not politically correct, but be damned, they are thieving troublemakers and we need vigilance” (emphasis in original). Coulter denies writing it and said he personally deleted it. [viii]

April: Candidate for Derby Council, Gulzabeen Afsar, was suspended after saying she’d never support then-Labour Party leader, Ed Miliband, whom she referred to as “the Jew.” [ix]

May: No action was taken when councillor Thomas Crockett of Maida Vale compared local youngsters to Hitler Youth. [x]

May: Following a police investigation, no action was taken after Leicestershire Cllr Bob Fahey referred to one colleague as “the Indian” and another as a “Chink.” [xi]

June: Dover District Cllr Bob Frost tweeted that a Big Issue (homeless magazine) salesperson should “**** off back to Romania.” Frost said it was satire. (Frost has a history of posting racist abuse, or “satire”: calling rioters in London in 2011 “jungle bunnies” and Arabs “sons of camel drivers”) . [xii]

July: PM Cameron referred to refugees as a “swarm.” [xiii]

September: Cllr for East Renfreshire, Gordon McCaskill, implied that refugees are terrorists when he tweeted that he wished to see those in Scottish National Party leader Nicola Sturgeon’s house reveal themselves to be “Daesh moles.” He was suspended . [xiv]

September: It was reported that Mike Kusneraitis, Cllr for Runnymede Borough Council, Surrey, posted numerous images, including a dog with a towel over its head, presumably in relation to Arabs or Muslims in general. Kusneraitis apologised and said he never meant to cause offense. [xv]

October: Cllr Jim Buckley of Rugby tweeted about Sadiq Khan: “Your next London Mayor? You think his corner shop would be open on a Saturday?” Buckley was suspended but later cleared of wrongdoing. [xvi]

December: Then-adviser to PM David Cameron, Oliver Letwin was exposed as saying in 1985 (when working for Margaret Thatcher) that black people had “bad moral attitudes” and that employment programs would see them move “into unemployment and crime.” [xvii]

December: Bassett and Swaything Conservative Association member, Valerie Laurent, said: “You know the little brown boy who’s standing for Swaything? That should have been mine.” Laurent later resigned, denying the allegation. [xviii]

2016

January: PM Cameron referred to refugees as “a bunch of migrants.” [xix]

February: Cllr for Trafford, Manchester, Matthew Sephton (who was later jailed on child abuse charges), posted a sarcastic leaflet aimed at the welfare state inviting foreigners to “consider moving to England, The Welfare Country,” which also implies that immigrants are scroungers. [xx]

April: Tory Cllr David Whittingham was stripped of membership and sacked from the Fareham North West council borough after he told housing officers he didn’t want any foreigners living near him (by foreigners, he meant non-whites). Whittingham was expelled from the party. [xxi]

April: Abdul Zaman, deputy chair of Bradford’s Conservative Association, implied that due his area being influenced by the Biradri system, Jews and Christians will be assimilated politically. He was suspended. [xxii]

June: Cllr Heather Venter of Driffield, Yorkshire, “liked” social media posts saying: “Shouldn’t employ Muslims. Nothing but trouble” and, “Sadly, looks like Romania’s Gypsy begger/pickpockets [sic] will b [sic] soon replaced by African Muslims.” [xxiii]

August: Cllr Andrew Dransfield, vice chair of Buckinghamshire and Milton Keynes’ fire authority, said to a black firefighter, “You’re the first one I’ve seen ... [an] ethnic minority ... Now all we need is a woman.” He was suspended. [xxiv]

2017

January: Cllr David Dean of Merton was re-admitted (in April) to the party after he allegedly said to a constituent of Labour Mayor Sadiq Khan: “as a white man … you will be a pariah in your own town. He will treat you like dirt.” Dean denies it. [xxv]

February: Cllr Alan Pearmain deputy chair of the South Ribble Conservative Association and Farington Parish Councillor posted a favourable comment about a tweet featuring Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott (who is black), as an orangutan. Cllr Pearmain describes himself on Twitter as “slightly to the right of Attila the Hun.” [xxvi]

April: Cllr Ray Bray of Shelley on Kirkburton Parish Council appeared to have published a series of tweets about “Muzzie rapists” and taxi drivers. When quizzed by the media, he said he could not remember whether or not he’d posted them. He then said that his twitter account was hacked. Bray was suspended. [xxvii]

May: Warwick District Councillor Nick Harrington was suspended after saying Ireland can “Keep your f’king gypsies! Hard border coming folks!” (his self-censorship).

 

The Warwick District Council said that Cllr Harrington could not be sacked because he is an elected official and not an employee. [xxviii]

 

May: Michael R.

 

Watson, Kirklees Cllr for the Denby Dale Ward was reported liking tweets, including pro-Nazi messages implying that “men” do not want big breasted women, but rather Nazi Aryan women. He was suspended. [xxix]

 

June: Following criticism of PM Theresa May over her seemingly indifferent response to the deaths of dozens of people in Grenfell Tower, Tory candidate for Coventry South, Michelle Lowe, tweeted a picture of Hitler and said sarcastically, “Politicians should go out and hug the public more. It proves they are nice people.” [xxx]

June: Gloucestershire County Councillor Lynden Stowe: “I think that some of Corbyn’s policies and the way he behaves are not dissimilar to some of the ways the National Socialist Party came about.” Calling Corbyn an anti-Semite, Stowe added: “In what he is trying to do with some of the younger people – it’s not dissimilar to Hitler Youth.” [xxxi]

July: MP for Newton Abbot, Devon, Anne Marie Morris, had the whip restored in December after she was briefly punished in July for using the anachronism, “Nigger in the woodpile” in relation to Brexit. [xxxii]

July: Tory Cllr Rosemary Carroll of Pendle Borough Council denigrated poor people, ethnic minorities and dogs by comparing poor minorities to dogs, tweeting that they “stink,” have never worked and are brown. Carroll was suspended and claims she shared the joke accidentally. [xxxiii]

August: It was reported that Stirling councillor Robert Davies tweeted of black people boarding a plane: “In the interests of security keep your loin cloths with you at all times. Spears go in the overhead locker.” Alastair Majury, Tory councillor in Stirling, tweeted jokes about Catholics: “Why is the Catholic Church against birth control? Because they’ll run out of children to molest.” Majury also called Catholics “tarriers,” an offensive term dating back to the Great Famine (1845-52). He also compared the Scottish National Party to Nazis. The Scottish Tories said: “Having served a suspension, both councillors have been readmitted to the party after offering unreserved apologies for any offence caused.” [xxxiv]

September: Jeff Potts of Solihull borough council in the West Midlands retweeted the comments of others, such as: “Deport and repatriate all muzlims [sic] from the UK or watch terrorists kill innocent people for generations to come” and, “You’ve clearly not experienced the Pakistani hospitality, having a daughter raped by men who think she’s ‘white trash’.” Potts was suspended . [xxxv]

October: Calls from opposition councillors mounted to suspend Solihull Cllr, Margaret Bassett, over retweets of some of Jeff Potts’ retweets relating to migration . [xxxvi]

November: MP Douglas Ross said of “Gypsy-travellers” that he would impose “tougher restrictions” on their movements and settlements. [xxxvii]

December: Teignmouth Cllr Robert Phipp was revealed to have liked a Facebook post by the far-right Britain First group featuring a covered dog and suggesting it could be a guide dog for blind Muslim women. [xxxviii]

December: It was reported that Cllr Eve Allison (who is black) filed a complaint against local Conservative bosses, accusing them of racism and sexism. She was sacked (a.k.a.

 

deselected), meaning her application to stand for re-election was rejected. [xxxix]

 

2018

March: It was report that Derek McCabe of South Ayrshire council, who sits on the council’s equality and diversity forum, had posted jokes on Facebook denigrating poor people and black people . [xl]

April: It was reported that in 2013, Councillor Mike Payne of Sowerby Bridge, Calderdale, shared an article which described Muslims benefit recipients as “parasites.” Payne was suspended. [xli]

April: A scandal broke (Windrush) in which it was revealed that for many years, the Home Office (including under then-Home Secretary and now PM Theresa May) had a policy of denying citizenship to Afro-Caribbean-majority Britons, despite many and their parents having been invited to Britain in the 1960s to fill an alleged labour shortage.

 

The Tory government had a policy of creating a “hostile environment” for migrants (or “illegal migrants”, as they claim). [xlii] Home Secretary Amber Rudd took the heat for May and resigned.

 

May: Rosemary Carroll (the councillor who shared on social media a joke comparing Asians to dogs) was re-relected. [xliii]

May: Baroness Warsi (Tory) expressed concern about Islamophobia in her party. No action was taken. [xliv]

June: Baroness Warsi again expressed concerns about Islamophobia in the Tory party, stating: “I think that there is a general sense in the country that Muslims are fair game and it is not the kind of community ... you can treat really badly and have many consequences. You can get away with it” (sic). [xlv]

July: Warsi called for a full and independent inquiry into Islamophobia in the Tory party, stating that no action had been taken since her last public statements, adding that the attitude among Tories was “**** the Muslims” . [xlvi]

Resources:

---

 Boris Johnson (2018) ‘Denmark has got it wrong. Yes, the burka is oppressive and ridiculous – but that's still no reason to ban it’ Telegraph .

[ii] UN News (2018) ‘UN rights experts voice concerns about “structural racism” in United Kingdom’.

[iii] James Hanning (2015) ‘Conservative party is still racist, says a former adviser Derek Laud’ Independent.

[iv] Ibid.

[v] UNITE (2016) ‘A dossier on racism in the Conservative Party’.

[vi] Feyzi Ismail (2016) ‘No.10 website refuses to host petition calling for inquiry into Tory racism’ Counterfire .

[vii] Samantha Hadadi (2015) ‘Top Tory apologises for sending racist and pornographic emails’ Hinckley Times .

[viii] Luton Today (2015) ‘Tory council candidate David Coulter caught in row over “pikie” post’.

[ix] BBC (2015) ‘Ed Miliband Jewish slur candidate suspended by Conservatives’.

[x] Hannah McGrath (2015) ‘Political row after Maida Vale councillor compares local children to Hitler Youth on Twitter’ Kilburn Times .

[xi] Alex Arnold and Martin Fricker (2015) ‘Police investigate Tory accused of calling fellow councillor a “chink” in election night speech’ Mirror .

[xii] Eleanor Perkins (2015) ‘Councillor Bob Frost gets away with tweet’ Kent Online .

[xiii] BBC (2015) ‘David Cameron criticised over migrant “swarm” language’.

[xiv] BBC (2015) ‘Tory councillor suspended over Islamic State moles tweet’.

[xv] Tom Batchelor (2015) ‘“If Carlsberg did illegal immigrants” Tory councillor’ Express .

[xvi] Coventry Live (2016) ‘Former Tory councillor found not guilty of sending offensive tweet to Labour London mayor hopeful’.

[xvii] Matt Dathan (2015) ‘The 5 most shocking quotes in Oliver Letwin’s “racist” memo’ Independent .

[xviii] Matthew Snape (2017) ‘Exclusive: Southampton Tories’ history of racism and bullying revealed’ Blasting News .

[xix] Rowena Mason and Frances Perraudin (2016) ‘Cameron’s “bunch of migrants” jibe is callous and dehumanising, say MPs’ Guardian .

[xx] Todd Fitzgerald (2016) ‘Councillor prompts outrage after tweeting immigration poster claiming “Only Suckers Work in England”’ Manchester Evening News .

[xxi] Miles O’Leary (2016) ‘Fareham tory councillor axed from party after racist rant’ The News Portsmouth .

[xxii] Campaign Against Anti-Semitism (2016) ‘Confusion over suspension of “anti-Semitic” Conservative councillor’.

 

This organization appears to deny that the statement was anti-Semitic.

 

[xxiii] Alex Wood and Stewart Paterson (2016) “Ex-Yorkshire mayor in racism storm over anti-Muslim and ‘Romania gypsy’ tweets” Yorkshire Post .

[xxiv] Milton Keynes Citizen (2016) ‘Milton Keynes councillor suspended from Tory party after claims he made racist and sexist remarks’.

[xxv] Adela Whittingham (2017) ‘Councillor David Dean re-admitted to Conservative Party after being suspended’ Your Local Guardian .

[xxvi] Lancashire Post (2017) ‘Lancashire Tory suspended in “racist” tweet row’.

[xxvii] Nick Lavigueur (2017) ‘Twitter account of Tory councillor used to post abusive Islamophobic comments’ Huddersfield Daily Examiner .

[xxviii] Simon Gilbert (2017) ‘Eurovision gypsy tweet councillor Nick Harrington “cannot be sacked”’ Coventry Telegraph .

[xxix] Nick Lavigueur (2017) ‘Second Tory caught in race-hate Twitter storm’ Huddersfield Daily Examiner .

[xxx] Sarah Morland (2017) ‘Former Conservative candidate for Coventry South criticized for Hitler tweet’ The Boar .

[xxxi] Matt Discombe (2017) ‘Tory councillor in Gloucestershire compares Jeremy Corbyn to HITLER’ Gloucestershire Live .

[xxxii] Mid Sussex Times (2017) ‘Former Mid Sussex councillor has Conservative whip restored’.

[xxxiii] Bridie Pearson-Jones (2017) ‘Tory councillor who shared joke comparing Asian people to dogs suspended’ Independent .

[xxxiv] Kevin Schofield (2017) ‘Anger as Tory councillors in anti-Catholic and racist tweets row are re-instated to party’ Holyrood (magazine).

[xxxv] Henry Zeffman (2017) ‘Tory councillor Jeff Potts suspended after sharing racist tweets’ The Times .

[xxxvi] Les Reid (2017) ‘UPDATED: Pressure mounts after “anti-immigration” tweets on Tories to suspend second councillor Margaret Bassett’ Solihull Observer .

[xxxvii] BBC (2017) ‘Tory MP Douglas Ross criticised over Gypsy remark’.

[xxxviii] Tina Crowson (2017) ‘A Muslim father who is angry at a local councillor’s use of a Britain First post calls for an apology’ Devon Live .

[xxxix] Hugo Gye (2017) ‘Tory race row: Grenfell Tower council hit with racism complaint as black Tory councillor is sacked by colleagues in “lynching”’ The Sun .

[xl] Kirsteen Paterson (2018) ‘Tory councillor Derek McCabe’s “offensive” posts revealed’ The National (Scotland).

[xli] Nick Lavigueur (2018) ‘Councillor denies he’s racist after sharing article that called Muslims “parasites”’ Huddersfield Daily Examiner .

[xlii] Sarah Pepin and Melanie Gower (2018) ‘Windrush generation’ House of Commons Library CDP-2018-0111, London: The Stationary Office.

[xliii] BBC (2018) ‘Tories urged to act in “racist joke” row at Pendle Council’ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44022663.

[xliv] BBC (2018) ‘Baroness Warsi: Conservatives must act on Islamophobia’.

[xlv] Benjamin Kentish (2018) ‘Islamophobia “very widespread” in Conservative Party, says Baroness Warsi’ Independent .

[xlvi] Dan Sabbagh (2018) ‘Sayeeda Warsi calls for inquiry into Islamophobia within Tory party’ Guardian .

[Innovindil]

Almost as long as an Alf post wtf. 

[RoboFox]

These are pretty obvious fakes, especially if you have the sound on, but they look real enough especially to the older, less tech-savvy among us. I could imagine a few on my own Facebook account being duped by this kind of thing.

 

The potential is there for all kinds of mischief when deepfake technology gets into the wrong hands. And people will buy it. 

 

As if we need more misinformation across social media.

 

 

 

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

These are pretty obvious fakes, especially if you have the sound on, but they look real enough especially to the older, less tech-savvy among us. I could imagine a few on my own Facebook account being duped by this kind of thing.

 

The potential is there for all kinds of mischief when deepfake technology gets into the wrong hands. And people will buy it. 

 

As if we need more misinformation across social media.

 

 

 

The voice over impression of Corbyn is proper shite and sounds nothing like him imo.

 

Despite that, I take your point.

[RoboFox]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

The voice over impression of Corbyn is proper shite and sounds nothing like him imo.

 

Despite that, I take your point.

Yeah, I mean it's ****ing awful. Literally sounds nothing like him, but I did put a big fat caveat at the start of the post in fairness. 

 

But the potential is there.

 

Also it's worth considering many people won't watch videos that pop up on their social media feed with the sound on. They'll rely on subtitles instead.

 

[leicsmac]

Years and Years becoming more and more prescient.

 

Looking forward to having to keep most digital information on hardcopy because cyber attacks will have become so commonplace.

[SecretPro]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Years and Years becoming more and more prescient.

 

Looking forward to having to keep most digital information on hardcopy because cyber attacks will have become so commonplace.

Literally all coming true. I know that Viv Rook was based on Farage but the writers have pretty much predicted the future.

[Izzy]

10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Years and Years becoming more and more prescient.

 

Looking forward to having to keep most digital information on hardcopy because cyber attacks will have become so commonplace.

I generally like your posts Mac and you’re clearly very bright but you don’t half come across as a paranoid, doom and gloom worrier sometimes. 

[Innovindil]

Are labour actually bragging that they managed to defend against a DDoS attack ffs? 

[Beechey]

21 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Years and Years becoming more and more prescient.

 

Looking forward to having to keep most digital information on hardcopy because cyber attacks will have become so commonplace.

Nothing is ever completely secure, but some people's stuff is more secure than others.

Most threats are easy to spot and avoid, such as email phishing scams. Just make sure you keep your software up to date and ensure you don't click any stupid links.

As cyber attack complexity increases, so does the defensive mechanisms available. This attack though was crude, short and completely ineffective, like most script-kiddy DDoS attacks.

 

3 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Are labour actually bragging that they managed to defend against a DDoS attack ffs? 

Amazingly, yes - and it's because they operate using CloudFlare rather than them actually doing anything.

Edited 12 November 2019 by Beechey

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I generally like your posts Mac and you’re clearly very bright but you don’t half come across as a paranoid, doom and gloom worrier sometimes. 

Honestly Izzy, I want to see humanity do better - I know they can do better, there's so much potential there. I've said that enough times on here.

 

But perhaps being "cursed with knowledge" isn't a great thing because it does, right now, give you a viewpoint of the world that makes you think that we aren't doing better. And I worry about that because, quite frankly, someone has to. I'm not pulling negativity out of my own arse for its own sake - I'd love nothing more than to be satisfied with the way the world is and happy that humanity is progressing in a way that means much less people around the world are suffering, that we can be good custodians of the planet and not so driven by the lizard brain so much that we make terrible errors. I can't stand by and simply be happy with my own life and that of my immediate friends and family, that's not me and I don't think it ever will be, because long term the actions that people I have never met take will affect me and them too.

 

I like to think that I tread the line - there is so much human potential for the future, so much...but a lot of work needs to be done in order to fulfil it.

 

4 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Are labour actually bragging that they managed to defend against a DDoS attack ffs? 

Depends on the magnitude and sophistication of the attack, I'd say.

[HappyHamza]

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/number-10-abused-its-power-demanding-cover-donors-and-friends-boris-report-russian-influence/

 

[Innovindil]

22 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Depends on the magnitude and sophistication of the attack, I'd say.

It's a flipping DDoS attack leicsmac. My nan, who has crippling arthritis and severe dementia could fire off a DDoS attack ffs. It's not even claffied as a hack, it's literally what kids do to Minecraft servers when they get banned for griefing. 

[leicsmac]

Just now, Innovindil said:

It's a flipping DDoS attack leicsmac. My nan, who has crippling arthritis and severe dementia could fire off a DDoS attack ffs. It's not even claffied as a hack, it's literally what kids do to Minecraft servers when they get banned for griefing. 

Of course, it's not technically difficult - I would know how to do it too and what one doesn't know a simple trawl of the Internet would easily educate.

 

However if you have "tens of millions" (though that may be overstated) of bots doing the same thing and it becomes rather difficult to defend against without big resources of ones own. Bigger fish than the LP website have been knocked offline by them in the past. A recent example: https://www.pcmag.com/news/368982/chinese-ddos-attack-hits-telegram-during-hong-kong-protests

 

Of course, I'm pretty sure the intent was pure nuisance value as it seems area denial rather than obtaining valuable information was the goal, but I'm not sure it should be downplayed/written off as purely trivial.

[Innovindil]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm not sure it should be downplayed/written off as purely trivial

Of course it should. It's a wind up attack by someone so shite they can't even get a labour muppet to open a phishing link to actually do some damage.  It's 100% comedy that this has made national news. 

 

The biggest "attack" they've dealt with came from their own incompetence ffs 

 

The Times has revealed that Labour exposed the names of people who had donated money via an online tool.

The details could be found via an RSS web feed generated by the site's code, which most browsers provide a way to inspect.

In most cases the information was limited to the donors' first names and the sums given.

But because some people had mistakenly added their surname to the first name input box, this too was disclosed.

[Beechey]

15 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Of course, it's not technically difficult - I would know how to do it too and what one doesn't know a simple trawl of the Internet would easily educate.

 

However if you have "tens of millions" (though that may be overstated) of bots doing the same thing and it becomes rather difficult to defend against without big resources of ones own. Bigger fish than the LP website have been knocked offline by them in the past. A recent example: https://www.pcmag.com/news/368982/chinese-ddos-attack-hits-telegram-during-hong-kong-protests

 

Of course, I'm pretty sure the intent was pure nuisance value as it seems area denial rather than obtaining valuable information was the goal, but I'm not sure it should be downplayed/written off as purely trivial.

It wasn't tens of millions of attacking hosts, it was tens of millions of "attacks", almost certainly meaning "tens of millions of packets". Seemed to be repelled easily by CloudFlare, meaning it was probably just a few hosts generating a few hundred thousand packets each. Any competent network administrator should have absolutely no problem mitigating attacks like that - there are so many tools to do so. Labour, like most sane organisations seem to deploy CloudFlare, which is great at DDoS protection.

 

DDoS attacks only get dangerous, as you say, when there are tens or hundreds of thousands of attacking hosts available to use.

These are quite rare.

Edited 12 November 2019 by Beechey

[leicsmac]

49 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Of course it should. It's a wind up attack by someone so shite they can't even get a labour muppet to open a phishing link to actually do some damage.  It's 100% comedy that this has made national news. 

 

The biggest "attack" they've dealt with came from their own incompetence ffs 

 

The Times has revealed that Labour exposed the names of people who had donated money via an online tool.

The details could be found via an RSS web feed generated by the site's code, which most browsers provide a way to inspect.

In most cases the information was limited to the donors' first names and the sums given.

But because some people had mistakenly added their surname to the first name input box, this too was disclosed.

Fair enough, we'll wait and see if the next attack is bigger and more sophisticated to take it seriously, then. I'm assuming you'd address a similar attack against the Conservative website with similar dismissal...but I'm not sure you'll get a chance to anyway seeing as they don't seem to be attracting the attention of the Russian and Brazilian botnets in that way - I wonder why?

 

44 minutes ago, Beechey said:

It wasn't tens of millions of attacking hosts, it was tens of millions of "attacks", almost certainly meaning "tens of millions of packets". Seemed to be repelled easily by CloudFlare, meaning it was probably just a few hosts generating a few hundred thousand packets each. Any competent network administrator should have absolutely no problem mitigating attacks like that - there are so many tools to do so. Labour, like most sane organisations seem to deploy CloudFlare, which is great at DDoS protection.

 

DDoS attacks only get dangerous, as you say, when there are tens or hundreds of thousands of attacking hosts available to use.

These are quite rare.

I'm well aware of what I meant - perhaps I should have said "bot attacks" as opposed to merely "bots" in the post as yes, you're right that it probably wasn't many hosts actually doing the attacking.

 

As per above, let's hope though this is the last of it and isn't merely a prelude to something bigger and smarter.

 

[Guest MattP]

16 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Fair enough, we'll wait and see if the next attack is bigger and more sophisticated to take it seriously, then. I'm assuming you'd address a similar attack against the Conservative website with similar dismissal...but I'm not sure you'll get a chance to anyway seeing as they don't seem to be attracting the attention of the Russian and Brazilian botnets in that way - I wonder why?

It's a great shame people in Labour weren't as upset with dodgy Russians when they were murdering people on the streets of Salisbury as they are with them attacking their printers.

 

Why would Russia want to attack Corbyn anyway? He's on board with most of Russia's main geopolitical aims, nuclear disarmament in the West and the weakening of NATO being arguably the biggest two.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

It's a great shame people in Labour weren't as upset with dodgy Russians when they were murdering people on the streets of Salisbury as they are with them attacking their printers.

 

Why would Russia want to attack Corbyn anyway? He's on board with most of Russia's main geopolitical aims, nuclear disarmament in the West and the weakening of NATO being arguably the biggest two.

Damn good question.

 

Perhaps they consider Boris and the destabilising effect he could continue to have on the EU and as a symbol of the socially illiberal "strongman nationalist" ideal the current Russian and Brazilian people like (those who are have the deniable power to do something like this anyway) as a better horse to back geopolitically at the present time? (Not that BJ is particularly socially illiberal by comparison to them, but more so than JC.)

[Alf Bentley]

39 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

Why would Russia want to attack Corbyn anyway? He's on board with most of Russia's main geopolitical aims, nuclear disarmament in the West and the weakening of NATO being arguably the biggest two.

 

In case he denies Boris a majority, thereby thwarting Brexit? 

 

Brexit suits Putin's interests just as its suits Trump's interests - weakens the EU as an economic bloc, isolates the UK, potentially undermines foreign policy alliances in the West, fragments rivals & thereby strengthes the position of Russia/USA, respectively. Trump more interested in the economic weakening of the EU, Putin more interested in dividing foreign/defence alliances in the West, I'd guess.

 

Might have been nothing to do with state or state-associated actors, of course. Might have been amateur teenage hackers or Alt Right weirdos or something. Or maybe Labour is talking up a minor incident after Boris' refusal to publish the report on previous Russian interventions, as a means of pushing that up the election agenda? 

[HappyHamza]

Imagine going on a football forum to discuss politics and genuinally confirming that you want to spread Tory propaganda.

 

It takes all sorts I suppose.