Burnley’s tackling is three times as dirty as Leicester’s! Really???

[davieG]

Worthy of it's own thread.

 

https://untold-arsenal.com/archives/79333

 

 

Over the weekend I used some of the findings we had on the relationship between fouls and yellow cards; you may recall the data that shows some clubs have to commit many, many more fouls than others to get yellow cards.

From this, the suggestion was made that we should not only look at fouls and yellow cards but also the number of tackles.

Of course, as usual, a number of people felt the need to put their point in an aggressive, sneering or dismissive manner – but sadly that is what seems to pass for conversation among some people these days.   But ignoring that, and the fact that at first I thought the number of tackles had little to add to our understanding of the stats, I decided to have a look – not least because we’ve been so critical of The Athletic in not doing its research properly, I thought I ought to follow our own guidelines.

So I’ve added the number of tackles and done a chart for the two teams in yesterday’s game, plus two others.  Then added three ratios – how many tackles lead to fouls (T/F), how many fouls lead to yellow cards (F/Y) and how many tackles does it take to get a yellow card (T/Y).

All figures are before Sunday’s games.  Assuming the referee has no bias, then the higher the number in the T/F ratio the “dirtier” the team – a figure of 1.00 would mean that every tackle was a foul.

In the tackles column the number in brackets shows the position in a tackles league table.  Leicester tackle the most, Burnley the least.  Similarly in fouls and yellows.   Arsenal are near the bottom in the number of tackles compared to other clubs, but are mid-table for fouls committed, yet get more yellows than anyone else.  You might find that a trifle odd.  I do.

 

 

Club	Tackles	Fouls	T/F ratio	Yellows	F/Y ratio	T/Y ratio
Arsenal	400 (14)	259 (10)	0,65	57 (1)	4.54	7.01
Burnley	329 (20)	270 (5)	0.82	43 (13)	6.27	6.65
Leicester	493 (1)	237 (16)	0,48	25 (16)	9.48	19.72
West Ham	485 (3)	258 (11)	0,53	46 (9)	5.60	10.54

Now the claim was made by correspondent “Jason” that Burnley’s manager has instilled an exemplary discipline in his team – yet the figures show they commit the fifth-highest number of fouls – despite having the lowest number of tackles.  That takes some doing!  It means Burnley commits fewer tackles, but refs think the tackles they do commit are pretty awful so they award fouls.  But not so awful as to get yellows.

Arsenal commit a below average number of tackles, are given an average number of fouls against, but find a higher percentage of those fouls turning into yellow cards that you might expect.

Now there are all sorts of ways of committing a foul – but a poorly timed or deliberately illegal tackle is surely the most common, and so that measure is, for me if no one else, a measure worth utilizing – given there is a limit to the data available.  As ever, we can only use the data we have.

The Fouls to Yellow card column (F/Y ratio) shows us once again the very, very odd figures of Leicester City – the team that tackles the most but seemingly, most wonderfully, gets most of the tackles right, and so gets very few yellow cards.

Now this is where we need the TV stations to be doing their job properly – by analyzing these Leicester figures in-depth with detailed TV reviews.   It was the sort of work our fantastic “160 Game” team did, and because of the level of work involved there is no way I can ask them to repeat that level of work.   If I even dared ask I would probably have to go into hiding, but it is the research the broadcasters ought to be doing.  In fact I am absolutely certain Opta has done this and thus PGMO know it.

But let us come back to the “Burnley complaint” – the notion that our figures are not relevant because they do not include tackles.  And this based on the notion that Burnley are something special because they are the least tackling team in the Premier League.

Well, yes, Burnley commit the fewest tackles of any PL team but are the fifth-highest foulers.   Not every foul is from a bad tackle, but most are, so that indicates that as a fouling team Burnley are pretty bad.  Something approaching 0.82 of their tackles are rated as fouls – and astonishingly high rate since the highest possible level is 1.0.   Yet despite this propensity to get their tackles wrong, they don’t get that many yellow cards!

In round numbers Arsenal and Burnley are the same – they get around one yellow card for every seven tackles.  But look at Leicester – they have undertaken 93 more tackles than Arsenal and 164 more tackles than Burnley, and yet they have picked up far fewer yellows than either club.

So the question is: are Leicester the perfect master tacklers, doing it so well, they hardly ever get a mistimed tackle, and rarely commit a tackle to break up a dangerous attack?  Are Burnley the really clumsy tacklers?

Now when I have watched Leicester in the flesh (an occasional habit because although I’m a season ticket holder at Arsenal, it so happens that Leicester is my nearest ground) that is not the impression I get.  Of course, impressions don’t count for much, so this again is where we need the TV companies’ help.   Leicester’s figures are really weird and they really do need investigating further.

Another interesting question is, “Why is the media not covering these figures.”  I mean, they really are extraordinary when you compare clubs in this way, and by and large at the centre of them are the referees.  Surely it is a story.

And yet as far as I know, not one broadcaster or newspaper has brought this up.   Maybe it is one for The Athletic?  They publish complicated pieces and want to push into new ground.  Surely it is a story for them.

[Innovindil]

Interesting stats. Would absolutely love a player breakdown throughout our team. I'd say Ndidi is one of the best tacklers I've ever seen, and I think he has the most tackles in the prem atm? Wouldn't be surprised if he is single handedly fudging the numbers into crazy. 

[FLAN]

I’d guess The force with which a tackle is made is a factor here. I don’t see many of our players flying into tackles but Burnley may be stronger and therefore deemed to be more like fouls 

[Koke]

We also have the least amount of yellow cards in the league. 

[rachhere]

9 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Interesting stats. Would absolutely love a player breakdown throughout our team. I'd say Ndidi is one of the best tacklers I've ever seen, and I think he has the most tackles in the prem atm? Wouldn't be surprised if he is single handedly fudging the numbers into crazy. 

I would imagine that is indeed the case!

[StriderHiryu]

The reason why we make the most tackles but have the least amount of yellows is because of the system football we play. We create pressing traps and push opposition players into pockets so they don't have much room to escape, then when we tackle , it's more about getting a nick on the ball rather than an old fashioned sliding challenge. When the team is training, they are coached to play in tight spaces where there is not much room to manoeuvre, and we try to pounce on the opposition to force them into a mistake. If you've ever played 5-a-side, you will know the pitch is very small and if you are pressed, you very quickly run out of options to get rid of the ball, and it often leads to mistakes. Our style of play is to try and create situations like that on a bigger pitch - notice how we defend as a team so that there are two or three players around the opposition so someone gets a nick, or a combination of players do. 

 

 

^ Here is an example of us pressing away to Liverpool. You can clearly see three players putting Henderson under pressure.

 

This often forces the opposition to hit it long, and that's where Soyuncu is so adept at reading the game and anticipating the danger and nicking the ball away, not with a sliding challenge, but with a simple foot in. That said, Ndidi and Ricardo are just great tacklers regardless of system used, which is always a help!

 

The only surprise for me is that statistically we are better at it than Liverpool. But I think that's more likely because they are better as an attacking force and so good that there isn't that much opportunity for them to win the ball back in the first place! But when they battered us 4-0 at home, they suffocated our players so much we gave it away time and time again, but without needing to make dangerous challenges.

 

 

 

^ Here is an example of Liverpool pressing us at home. Tielemans has been closed down by Keita and Henderson, and all our players are back from a defensive phase, so standing in terrible positions to receive the ball.

 

 

 

 

[CosbehFox]

He’s definitely not seen us play many times because on the whole we are a team of softies 

[davieG]

32 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Interesting stats. Would absolutely love a player breakdown throughout our team. I'd say Ndidi is one of the best tacklers I've ever seen, and I think he has the most tackles in the prem atm? Wouldn't be surprised if he is single handedly fudging the numbers into crazy. 

..... and Ben Mee probably accounts for most of Burnley's high score. 

[Jattdogg]

If klopp could fine tune our stats it would just say "dirty bastard hamza".

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

The reason why we make the most tackles but have the least amount of yellows is because of the system football we play. We create pressing traps and push opposition players into pockets so they don't have much room to escape, then when we tackle , it's more about getting a nick on the ball rather than an old fashioned sliding challenge. When the team is training, they are coached to play in tight spaces where there is not much room to manoeuvre, and we try to pounce on the opposition to force them into a mistake. If you've ever played 5-a-side, you will know the pitch is very small and if you are pressed, you very quickly run out of options to get rid of the ball, and it often leads to mistakes. Our style of play is to try and create situations like that on a bigger pitch - notice how we defend as a team so that there are two or three players around the opposition so someone gets a nick, or a combination of players do. 

 

 

^ Here is an example of us pressing away to Liverpool. You can clearly see three players putting Henderson under pressure.

 

This often forces the opposition to hit it long, and that's where Soyuncu is so adept at reading the game and anticipating the danger and nicking the ball away, not with a sliding challenge, but with a simple foot in. That said, Ndidi and Ricardo are just great tacklers regardless of system used, which is always a help!

 

The only surprise for me is that statistically we are better at it than Liverpool. But I think that's more likely because they are better as an attacking force and so good that there isn't that much opportunity for them to win the ball back in the first place! But when they battered us 4-0 at home, they suffocated our players so much we gave it away time and time again, but without needing to make dangerous challenges.

 

 

 

^ Here is an example of Liverpool pressing us at home. Tielemans has been closed down by Keita and Henderson, and all our players are back from a defensive phase, so standing in terrible positions to receive the ball.

 

 

 

 

Nice work as always!

[Nicolo Barella]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

The reason why we make the most tackles but have the least amount of yellows is because of the system football we play. We create pressing traps and push opposition players into pockets so they don't have much room to escape, then when we tackle , it's more about getting a nick on the ball rather than an old fashioned sliding challenge. When the team is training, they are coached to play in tight spaces where there is not much room to manoeuvre, and we try to pounce on the opposition to force them into a mistake. If you've ever played 5-a-side, you will know the pitch is very small and if you are pressed, you very quickly run out of options to get rid of the ball, and it often leads to mistakes. Our style of play is to try and create situations like that on a bigger pitch - notice how we defend as a team so that there are two or three players around the opposition so someone gets a nick, or a combination of players do. 

 

 

^ Here is an example of us pressing away to Liverpool. You can clearly see three players putting Henderson under pressure.

 

This often forces the opposition to hit it long, and that's where Soyuncu is so adept at reading the game and anticipating the danger and nicking the ball away, not with a sliding challenge, but with a simple foot in. That said, Ndidi and Ricardo are just great tacklers regardless of system used, which is always a help!

 

The only surprise for me is that statistically we are better at it than Liverpool. But I think that's more likely because they are better as an attacking force and so good that there isn't that much opportunity for them to win the ball back in the first place! But when they battered us 4-0 at home, they suffocated our players so much we gave it away time and time again, but without needing to make dangerous challenges.

 

 

 

^ Here is an example of Liverpool pressing us at home. Tielemans has been closed down by Keita and Henderson, and all our players are back from a defensive phase, so standing in terrible positions to receive the ball.

 

 

 

 

Adding on to this, we make a lot of our "foul" tackles well in the opposition half as an abortive measure to clear our retreat down the field, so a lot of tackles that would be fouls or yellows in our half are glossed over. But spot on.

[KingsX]

When you think Burnley, you think slide tackles by lumps who simply have to take the man if they can’t get the ball.  Whereas guys like Ricardo, Evans and Ayoze are game-readers who fit a good team-pressing system well.  On the occasions they do have to leave their feet, they often have the skill to judge it.

 

That said, Ndidi’s pace, awareness, and Mr Fantastic legs would make him an elite tackler in any side, including Burnley.  He was just as prolific under Shakespeare and Puel.

 

p.s. If Arsenal's defenders and midfielders showed any evidence of knowing where they need to be and what they should be doing, I'm sure those fouls per tackle would be more in line with better organized sides.