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US Presidential Election 2020

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1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

If the guy is so concerned about LGBT rights, perhaps he should be looking to make sure they're consistently enforced closer to home...often in areas where lots of people vote for him.

What's he done wrong in terms of gay rights?

 

I mean I'm passionate about LGB rights, but not the T part given it's currently trying to trample over very hard fought for women's rights.

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6 minutes ago, MattP said:

What's he done wrong in terms of gay rights?

 

I mean I'm passionate about LGB rights, but not the T part given it's currently trying to trample over very hard fought for women's rights.

Tbh It's more what he's *not* done more than what he's done, WRT not challenging certain institutionalized discriminations in various states (like workplace ones) and generally letting the fundies think that they have that licence to discriminate and intimidate in the first place for the sake of ensuring their vote. Not saying "yes", but certainly not saying "no" loudly enough.

 

As for trans rights, I think that's been covered pretty comprehensively elsewhere.

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6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

On the other, I don't actually see it having much of an effect on the landscape because I would wager that most Trump supporters simply wouldn't care that Russia was helping him win, so long as he wins.

 

6 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Yeah nah, in keeping with rightists the world over they don't give a shit about truth and facts as long as they win.

Speaking of that.

 

Guess we'll soon find out whether the left cares as much as the right.

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59 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

Speaking of that.

 

Guess we'll soon find out whether the left cares as much as the right.

 

Quote

Responding to the report, [he] said he opposed Russia's efforts to "undermine American democracy". Addressing Russian President Vladimir Putin directly, [he] said:"Stay out of American elections."

Quote

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” [he] said. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

A challenge for you:  One of these quotes is Bernie Sanders responding to reports of Russian interference on his behalf, one is Trump responding to reports that Russian hackers broke into Democratic Party computers.

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4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

A challenge for you:  One of these quotes is Bernie Sanders responding to reports of Russian interference on his behalf, one is Trump responding to reports that Russian hackers broke into Democratic Party computers.

A good response.

 

Next question for Bernie should be why Russia wants to help him win the Presidency. Any ideas?

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2 minutes ago, MattP said:

A good response.

 

Next question for Bernie should be why Russia wants to help him win the Presidency. Any ideas?

Why wouldn't they want him to be president?  Everybody loves Bernie.

 

I presume that failing having a puppet in the chair they view him as the easiest candidate to have a diplomatic relationship with.

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12 hours ago, MattP said:

A good response.

 

Next question for Bernie should be why Russia wants to help him win the Presidency. Any ideas?


In my opinion, because it’s the most divisive result, as with when Trump was elected.

 

This one possibly even more so to be honest, it’s two extremely polarising figures. If Bernie was to win, I could see a lot of the far-right that has been (directly or indirectly depending on your views) galvanised over the last four years reacting accordingly. I know there’s plenty of Libertarian & Right Wing militias scattered across America that may also take issue.
 

Americans have had it so engrained that anything left of centre is Evil Communism (Bloomberg has already called Bernie Communist in the Las Vegas debate lol) that I could honestly see a couple of ‘Waco Siege’ situations occurring by the time self-identified Socialist Bernie Sanders is inaugurated. 
 

Probably make a few angry kids in black masks look like a picnic.

Edited by Finnaldo
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1 hour ago, MattP said:

Ohhh ohhh Bernie Sanders 

Ohhh ohhh Bernie Sanders

 

Incredible watching history repeat itself. 

Would he make it through 1 term at his age,  let alone 2 and be able to keep up with the demands of the  office. If trump loses he could come back in 2024 and would still be younger than Bernie was when/if he wins in 2020. Scenes when hillary becomes his VP running mate lol

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If tbe USA would rather vote back in a man who spends more time golfing than in the oval office (despite criticising his predecessor for taking a handful of golfing holidays and claiming on the campaign trail that he'd be too busy working to ever leave the Whitehouse) because of fears that the alternative option isn't suited to the rigors of public work then they'll get what they deserve (a corrupt, unfit president instead of one who actually does want to improve their country).

Edited by Carl the Llama
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20 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

If tbe USA would rather vote back in a man who spends more time golfing than in the oval office (despite criticising his predecessor for taking a handful of golfing holidays and claiming on the campaign trail that he'd be too busy working to ever leave the Whitehouse) because of fears that the alternative option isn't suited to the rigors of public work then they'll get what they deserve (a corrupt, unfit president instead of one who actually does want to improve their country).

The country hasn't improved under Trump, neither economically nor on the job front?

(I'm aware of the increasing debt issue)

 

Let's not forget Sanders is already five years Trump's senior, and you'll agree with advanced age come more health risks.

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35 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

If tbe USA would rather vote back in a man who spends more time golfing than in the oval office (despite criticising his predecessor for taking a handful of golfing holidays and claiming on the campaign trail that he'd be too busy working to ever leave the Whitehouse) because of fears that the alternative option isn't suited to the rigors of public work then they'll get what they deserve (a corrupt, unfit president instead of one who actually does want to improve their country).

You are supposed to blame the electorate after you have lost not before lol

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10 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

The country hasn't improved under Trump, neither economically nor on the job front?

(I'm aware of the increasing debt issue)

 

Let's not forget Sanders is already five years Trump's senior, and you'll agree with advanced age come more health risks.

Their economy has grown under Trump, given how well it was doing when he took office it's not surprising that the momentum has carried on somewhat, but it's been slowing since he took office and as you say he's been exploding their debt levels, all the while engaging in pointless trade wars which are exacerbating the slowdown and leaving lots of his own citizens out of pocket.  The only people seeing tangible benefits from Trumpism were already doing very well.

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Just now, Carl the Llama said:

Their economy has grown under Trump, given how well it was doing when he took office it's not surprising that the momentum has carried on somewhat, but it's been slowing since he took office and as you say he's been exploding their debt levels, all the while engaging in pointless trade wars which are exacerbating the slowdown and leaving lots of his own citizens out of pocket.  The only people seeing tangible benefits from Trumpism were already doing very well.

What about the people working now rather than relying on social security cheques? I'd say they are doing better.

 

Honestly mate you are so far in your own bubble it's ridiculous. 

 

This debate is already reminding me of when you and Buce were claiming a Remain position wouldn't hurt Labour in an election, you just can't see outside of your own viewpoint and get yourself into the head of someone who doesn't hate Brexit/Trump. 

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Just now, MattP said:

You are supposed to blame the electorate after you have lost not before lol

What are you talking about? I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the arguments above that comment claiming to have concern for Bernie's fitness for the role.  It's pretty obviously a fall back argument because these people have no legitimate argument against Sanders.

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Just now, Carl the Llama said:

What are you talking about? I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the arguments above that comment claiming to have concern for Bernie's fitness for the role.  It's pretty obviously a fall back argument because these people have no legitimate argument against Sanders.

Im not a trump guy at all but i do think its okay question or think about the ability of him to work into his 80s with that level of stress, scrutiny, travel etc. Sure, i suppose he is fit for the job now but he isnt long term for me but clearly democrat voters feel differently. 

 

Still think Trump will destroy Bernie. Seems like republicans in general look past his ethics and focus more on the power they have. I suppose the dems would do the same if they had their trump in power.

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2 minutes ago, MattP said:

What about the people working now rather than relying on social security cheques? I'd say they are doing better.

 

Honestly mate you are so far in your own bubble it's ridiculous. 

 

This debate is already reminding me of when you and Buce were claiming a Remain position wouldn't hurt Labour in an election, you just can't see outside of your own viewpoint and get yourself into the head of someone who doesn't hate Brexit/Trump. 

Yeah there's been a lot of new jobs but wages haven't followed and the number of these new jobs classed as low paid is disproportionately high, widening the wealth inequality gap and leading to a sharp rise in the number of people with 2nd jobs just to get by.  Hardly utopian, is it?  Just the other day you were telling me you wanted to see our government address the plight of those earning poverty wages, do you not share the same compassion for Americans?

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11 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Im not a trump guy at all but i do think its okay question or think about the ability of him to work into his 80s with that level of stress, scrutiny, travel etc. Sure, i suppose he is fit for the job now but he isnt long term for me but clearly democrat voters feel differently. 

 

Still think Trump will destroy Bernie. Seems like republicans in general look past his ethics and focus more on the power they have. I suppose the dems would do the same if they had their trump in power.

If a doctor ran a check up and declared Bernie fit to run would that sway your opinion? Because that has actually happened.

 

It's absolutely fair to question his health on the basis of his age, but once that question has been answered by a qualified professional continuing to question it moves from fair to vindictive imo.

 

Edited by Carl the Llama
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1 minute ago, MattP said:

What about the people working now rather than relying on social security cheques? I'd say they are doing better.

 

Honestly mate you are so far in your own bubble it's ridiculous. 

 

This debate is already reminding me of when you and Buce were claiming a Remain position wouldn't hurt Labour in an election, you just can't see outside of your own viewpoint and get yourself into the head of someone who doesn't hate Brexit/Trump. 

I can't say I really understand the "bubble" arguments in this particular case, simply because (to use one example) the Earth isn't going to care that some people on it have a short term view of the future and don't believe things are going to change because of what they do - it's going to apply the changes anyway, it's already began to do so.

 

How, exactly, can one convince a plurality of people that taking action to safeguard the future at possible cost to their present is in their own interest as well as everyone else's? Feeling frustrated with, say, the views of a lot of Trump supporters on climate change and not wanting to entertain them because they are patently nonsense is not "living in a bubble"

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5 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Yeah there's been a lot of new jobs but wages haven't followed and the number of these new jobs classed as low paid is disproportionately high, widening the wealth inequality gap and leading to a sharp rise in the number of people with 2nd jobs just to get by.  Hardly utopian, is it?  Just the other day you were telling me you wanted to see our government address the plight of those earning poverty wages, do you not share the same compassion for Americans?

Not really no. Why would I? They voted for it.

 

If anything if Sanders wins we should be looking to take advantage of the uncertainty the markets and business will inherit.

 

The global economic superpower going towards his politics could be great for the rest of us.

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My only remaining interest in politics post the UK election now is the hope that Bernie can prevail here and then get in the white house.
Too few people I can believe in. 
Wonderful man. 
Him beating Trump would be such a feel good moment.

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