Alf Bentley Posted 14 February 2020 Share Posted 14 February 2020 8 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Hope bernie gets the shot tbf. Decent twitter banter either way, a round of labour-like "but everyone I know votes labour how can this happen" or we get an orange man melt down of absolute epic proportions. Win/win. I do wonder what Trump's reaction will be if he loses. His narcissistic psychological make-up probably doesn't allow him to comprehend such a prospect. Would he go willingly or have to be dragged out kicking and screaming by security? At inauguration, the tradition is for the outgoing President to ceremonially hand over to the incoming President, isn't it? As Obama handed over to him? Can you imagine him, as a defeated candidate, agreeing to ceremonially hand power to Sanders, Biden or whoever? The Orange Man could explode. It could be awful - peel, pith and seeds all over the White House lawn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 14 February 2020 Share Posted 14 February 2020 6 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: It could be awful And it could be ****ing AMAZING. Leader of the free world being the first human to ever spontaneously combust. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 14 February 2020 Share Posted 14 February 2020 24 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: I do wonder what Trump's reaction will be if he loses. His narcissistic psychological make-up probably doesn't allow him to comprehend such a prospect. Would he go willingly or have to be dragged out kicking and screaming by security? At inauguration, the tradition is for the outgoing President to ceremonially hand over to the incoming President, isn't it? As Obama handed over to him? Can you imagine him, as a defeated candidate, agreeing to ceremonially hand power to Sanders, Biden or whoever? The Orange Man could explode. It could be awful - peel, pith and seeds all over the White House lawn.... A friend of mine actually has genuine doubts about whether or not the man would go willingly if he were to lose in November, and if he would energise his base to resist based on some pretext. That would be pretty awful - and unprecedented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xen Posted 14 February 2020 Share Posted 14 February 2020 Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary back in 2016, despite an awful lot of Dems abstaining because they wanted Sanders or nothing - which quite possibly cost the Democrats the last election. If Sanders wins the nomination I'd think he'd be the most likely to be able to extend that margin and hopefully win more seats in the process, although it seems like the election rulebook gets repeatedly tossed out the window in the US so anything can (and will) happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detroit Blues Posted 14 February 2020 Share Posted 14 February 2020 30 minutes ago, Xen said: Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary back in 2016, despite an awful lot of Dems abstaining because they wanted Sanders or nothing - which quite possibly cost the Democrats the last election. If Sanders wins the nomination I'd think he'd be the most likely to be able to extend that margin and hopefully win more seats in the process, although it seems like the election rulebook gets repeatedly tossed out the window in the US so anything can (and will) happen. I think the electoral vote count makes it seem like 2016 was a landslide win for Trump. 304-227, he almost got 60% of the electoral votes. If you dig a bit deeper, you realize Trump won a lot of key states by a very slim margin. Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, Arizona, North Carolina account for 101 electoral votes. He won all of them by less than a 4% margin (455,204 total votes). In those states alone, the number of third party votes was 1.3 million. Even with the low turnout, Hilary only needed to win 40% of the votes that ended up getting "thrown away" on third party candidates like Jill Stein, in order to win the election. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 15 February 2020 Share Posted 15 February 2020 On 14/02/2020 at 11:45, shanetko said: 2016 is a long time ago. He’s within margin of error in all swing states. His approval rating is atrocious. He’s behind on all polling data against any of the democrats. The Dem turnout can’t possibly be that low again there’s too much at stake. Hilary was a similarly odious character with a very shady history. Least it can’t be her! A hell of a lot has to conspire for him to win. Or to look at it another way. Nothing has changed since 2016. He's polling better than he was in 2016. His base is certain to turn out after the behaviour of Pelosi etc over the last three years. The Democrats are quite capable of picking an even worse candidate than Clinton. A hell of a lot also has to conspire for him to lose. On 14/02/2020 at 11:58, Innovindil said: Hope bernie gets the shot tbf. Decent twitter banter either way, a round of labour-like "but everyone I know votes labour how can this happen" or we get an orange man melt down of absolute epic proportions. Win/win. I'm with this now, the debates will be like a posher version of Len and Arthur from This Country shouting at each other. If its Trump v Sanders we have a hilarious election with a hilarious ending whoever wins. On 14/02/2020 at 12:39, leicsmac said: A friend of mine actually has genuine doubts about whether or not the man would go willingly if he were to lose in November, and if he would energise his base to resist based on some pretext. That would be pretty awful - and unprecedented. I imagine his supporters will be just as bad as his opponents were after he won if he did lose, we will probably see some nasty stuff. Hillary has set the bar the lowest for accepting defeat after her refusal to appear on election night last time, Trump should think about that if the worst happens, leave and lose with dignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somebum Posted 15 February 2020 Share Posted 15 February 2020 Always defended trump, gone off him lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalis Posted 15 February 2020 Share Posted 15 February 2020 Trump is a shoe in I reckon, no stand out Democrat candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Fox Posted 16 February 2020 Share Posted 16 February 2020 I’m not the biggest follower of US politics, and I couldn’t really care les who wins but one thing that amuses me is the Democrats would lead you to believe that Trump is the worst US president of all time, an incompetent man of low intelligence, a criminal, a racist, homophobic, sexist scum bag, you name it we’ve all heard it... Yet they can’t find one candidate within the country who they are confident can beat this person. I don’t know what this says about their party, or the state of politics in general in America, but it’s quite humorous to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 16 February 2020 Share Posted 16 February 2020 1 hour ago, Aus Fox said: I’m not the biggest follower of US politics, and I couldn’t really care les who wins but one thing that amuses me is the Democrats would lead you to believe that Trump is the worst US president of all time, an incompetent man of low intelligence, a criminal, a racist, homophobic, sexist scum bag, you name it we’ve all heard it... Yet they can’t find one candidate within the country who they are confident can beat this person. I don’t know what this says about their party, or the state of politics in general in America, but it’s quite humorous to watch. Just my own take, but I think it shows that charisma outweighs character right now. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Trump is the worst president ever (Buchanan will likely always have that dubious honour), but his views on women and minorities, as well as business history, is a matter of record. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheppyFox Posted 16 February 2020 Share Posted 16 February 2020 Trump will win. He has done a good job economically and as long as you make people better off financially you’ll get enough votes. Money and economic stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 16 February 2020 Share Posted 16 February 2020 21 hours ago, Nalis said: Trump is a shoe in I reckon, no stand out Democrat candidate. Democrats have wasted these 3 years and have great grandpa as a leading candidate against the Trump machine. Trump will destroy Bernie with childish remarks and make him look like a loud mouth angry grandpa which is not good viewing on tv (where lets face it people make their decisions and judgements). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 Jesus And these are the elected representatives of the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 53 minutes ago, MattP said: Jesus And these are the elected representatives of the party. ...and? If this is going on come October when the convention is done then it's concerning. That's the time for unity (and goodness only knows I've spoken of the need for that many times), but right now there is going to be a certain amount of confrontational politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 Just now, leicsmac said: ...and? If this is going on come October when the convention is done then it's concerning. That's the time for unity (and goodness only knows I've spoken of the need for that many times), but right now there is going to be a certain amount of confrontational politics. What's this obsession left wing parties have with booing and degrading their ex leaders and politicians? They are the only ones who do it. If you think everyone is just going to sit down at convention and have a massive group hug when one side is intent on causing division you are mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 7 minutes ago, MattP said: What's this obsession left wing parties have with booing and degrading their ex leaders and politicians? They are the only ones who do it. If you think everyone is just going to sit down at convention and have a massive group hug when one side is intent on causing division you are mad. I'm well aware of the left's inability to distinguish between an imperfect ally and an enemy and it is a deeply frustrating thing. Perhaps that comes from an inbuilt contempt for authority, or that by and large "the left" is a much broader church in terms of viewpoints than the "the right" is, or just that they're all argumentative bastards. Could be some of those, could be all, could be none. My point is that what is going on now in terms of that video, among other things, is an inevitability that I view as frustrating but not something that can be stopped, and I hold out hope that once the nominee is chosen the mudslinging will cease. As you say, that might not be likely, but I don't see how things can change to make it more so. If I could, I'd be calling for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 1 hour ago, MattP said: What's this obsession left wing parties have with booing and degrading their ex leaders and politicians? They are the only ones who do it. If you think everyone is just going to sit down at convention and have a massive group hug when one side is intent on causing division you are mad. It's so weird that people think it's ok to be critical of a politician on their side of the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 17 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: It's so weird that people think it's ok to be critical of a politician on their side of the fence. Criticism is fine. Using public rallies to launch attacks and boo them? The obsession they now have with their own moral purity is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 44 minutes ago, MattP said: Criticism is fine. Using public rallies to launch attacks and boo them? The obsession they now have with their own moral purity is weird. I feel like you have to understand how utterly hypocritical that sentence is. At least the subject here is a controversial politician who has damaged the reputation of her party in recent years, not a dead war hero who was tortured for his country or a disabled journalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said: I feel like you have to understand how utterly hypocritical that sentence is. At least the subject here is a controversial politician who has damaged the reputation of her party in recent years, not a dead war hero who was tortured for his country or a disabled journalist. Again. Stop interpreting criticism of Democrats as turning a blind eye to Donald Trump. He's living rent free in your head at the minute. Maybe take a lesson from the Republicans in the way they do rally around their candidate as they realise how important it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 6 minutes ago, MattP said: Again. Stop interpreting criticism of Democrats as turning a blind eye to Donald Trump. He's living rent free in your head at the minute. Maybe take a lesson from the Republicans in the way they do rally around their candidate as they realise how important it is. It is turning a blind eye if you choose to pick up on behaviour by one party which is demonstrated on a far more egregious level by another. You've even tried painting it as a Democrat thing so you must have some pretty brassy balls down there to claim you're not ignoring the same behaviour but worse by the keyest of key figures and all his cronies on the other side of the political fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: It is turning a blind eye if you choose to pick up on behaviour by one party which is demonstrated on a far more egregious level by another. You've even tried painting it as a Democrat thing so you must have some pretty brassy balls down there to claim you're not ignoring the same behaviour but worse by the keyest of key figures and all his cronies on the other side of the political fence. No I didnt. You even highlighted this part as well so no idea how you missed it. 3 hours ago, MattP said: What's this obsession left wing parties have with booing and degrading their ex leaders and politicians? They are the only ones who do it. If you think everyone is just going to sit down at convention and have a massive group hug when one side is intent on causing division you are mad. As you can see I said the left. The Democrats with Clinton now seem to be offering up a similar attitude towards ex-leaders that many in the Labour party has decided to do with Tony Blair. As I say I find it weird and bizarre but if they refuse to learn lessons time and time again what can you do? The idea of reaching out and winning hearts and minds appears to have just vanished from a large segment of that part of politics. The EU referendum was another prime example, a decision was taken in 2016 and in hindsight we now know the public were given a chance to reverse that in December 2019. What did the losing side do in that 3 1/2 years to try and convince the other side to come over? Try to understand them? Try and solve problems? Try and see why they had a different point of view? No. They called them stupid, racist, idiots, gammon and mocked them at every opportunity - then bizarrely acted with surprise when they voted for the same thing. You can't fix stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Horse's Mouth Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 Buttigeig Clinton 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 5 hours ago, MattP said: No I didnt. You even highlighted this part as well so no idea how you missed it. As you can see I said the left. The Democrats with Clinton now seem to be offering up a similar attitude towards ex-leaders that many in the Labour party has decided to do with Tony Blair. As I say I find it weird and bizarre but if they refuse to learn lessons time and time again what can you do? The idea of reaching out and winning hearts and minds appears to have just vanished from a large segment of that part of politics. The EU referendum was another prime example, a decision was taken in 2016 and in hindsight we now know the public were given a chance to reverse that in December 2019. What did the losing side do in that 3 1/2 years to try and convince the other side to come over? Try to understand them? Try and solve problems? Try and see why they had a different point of view? No. They called them stupid, racist, idiots, gammon and mocked them at every opportunity - then bizarrely acted with surprise when they voted for the same thing. You can't fix stupid. Left/Democrat it doesn't change the fact that the man who led the vanguard for "using public rallies to launch attacks and boo people", as was the original subject, isn't either of those so you're making a bit of a stretch labelling it a left wing issue. The same thing goes for your other point: The behaviour you're so righteously complaining about is by no means unique to one side of the argument, this has always been a big part of the problem and claims otherwise are just entrenching it. I mean you've literally just whined about calling people stupid then gone and done exactly in the very next sentence, you're not just throwing stones at your glass house you're taking a sledgehammer to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 February 2020 Share Posted 17 February 2020 6 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Left/Democrat it doesn't change the fact that the man who led the vanguard for "using public rallies to launch attacks and boo people", as was the original subject, isn't either of those so you're making a bit of a stretch labelling it a left wing issue. The same thing goes for your other point: The behaviour you're so righteously complaining about is by no means unique to one side of the argument, this has always been a big part of the problem and claims otherwise are just entrenching it. I mean you've literally just whined about calling people stupid then gone and done exactly in the very next sentence, you're not just throwing stones at your glass house you're taking a sledgehammer to it. But he doesn’t need to win you over to his side of the argument, you guys did. That’s why the tactic was immeasurably stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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