Do we look like a side that is supposed to be challenging for promotion?

[Gené and Tonic]

Nope.

I can't see us gaining it next year either.

I'm giving Levein until February to turn it round, if we are still mid table with no sign of improving, then I'm afraid it will be time for him to go. I can't believe some people are prepared to let this club turn into a mediocre championship side and still give Levein their backing in the hope that it will get better.

[Babylon]

Nope.

I can't see us gaining it next year either.

I'm giving Levein until February to turn it round, if we are still mid table with no sign of improving, then I'm afraid it will be time for him to go. I can't believe some people are prepared to let this club turn into a mediocre championship side and still give Levein their backing in the hope that it will get better.

Oh come on... so you have seen no improvement since Adams left?? Why do people think this job takes a year and a half to complete. People wanted someone to build for the long term and that's what is happening.

We have drawn with one of the promotion favourites and your still moaning.

[Anish]

It's a draw, but look at the stats Babylon. We have the 5th worst goalscoring record in this league, and no matter how good your defence is (ours seems to be pretty solid nowadays) the best result you can get is 0-0 if you don't score.

I'm giving Levein time - the end of the season is long enough imo. If we still have the same problems by then I don't think he's shown enough to justify keeping him for next season.

[Babylon]

It's a draw, but look at the stats Babylon. We have the 5th worst goalscoring record in this league, and no matter how good your defence is (ours seems to be pretty solid nowadays) the best result you can get is 0-0 if you don't score.

I'm giving Levein time - the end of the season is long enough imo. If we still have the same problems by then I don't think he's shown enough to justify keeping him for next season.

Go onto the official site and read his interview. He knows where the problems are.

"I don't think he's shown enough to justify keeping him for next season" Has he been so bad to justify sacking him? I think it's laughable that people believe sacking him and getting someone else in will turn us into world beaters. What do i know though, i'm sure you are right.

[Anish]

Go onto the official site and read his interview. He knows where the problems are.

"I don't think he's shown enough to justify keeping him for next season" Has he been so bad to justify sacking him? I think it's laughable that people believe sacking him and getting someone else in will turn us into world beaters. What do i know though, i'm sure you are right.

Another sarky reply as usual.

He's not done badly that's for sure. He's done a lot for the club off the pitch and for that I'll give him a lot of credit. He's cleared the deadwood and bought some promising young players, as well as developing the academy and bringing youngsters through the ranks. He's certainly no failure so far.

But, there are signs that things aren't progressing as they should be. Goalscoring is a major problem for us and has been throughout last season too. Attendances are dwindling and fans are beginning to turn away in their droves due to bad results and lack of entertainment. This is a business after all, and the board will only put up with dire attendances and performances for so long. If Levein is here this time next year and we are in the same predicament, I can definitely envisage the board taking drastic action. It's costing the club a lot of money in lost profits. Plus you also have to consider that we have one of the biggest wage structures in this division, and to justify that we need to be one of the top teams in the division, which we clearly aren't.

I don't believe sacking him and getting someone else will make us world beaters. But I also don't believe in keeping somebody here who isn't delivering on the club's targets (playoff contenders, top 10 at least) and who is keeping the fans away with goalless bore draws either.

[Bert]

I'm with Babylon on this one, things take time and if you want them done properly you've got to be prepared to wait. Ley's say if we did go up this season or next, the chances of us staying up are in all honesty not very good, once we have a settled, Consistent squad and a maybe a bit more luck, we shall return.

[Louise]

I don't understand, when did Levein say that we would be challenging for promotion? At the start of the season all he said was that he wanted to improve on last year. Since then all he has said it that he'd like to be up in the top six, but he's never promised that.

Don't get me wrong; I understand what you're hinting at. But I don't see why we should be in the top six right now, that doesn't mean I'm settling for mediocrity, but in my mind I'm just settling realistic expectations on this season. I can't believe that some people want this club to get even worse by chopping and changing managers again when we're finally starting to see some promise.

[Anish]

I don't understand, when did Levein say that we would be challenging for promotion? At the start of the season all he said was that he wanted to improve on last year. Since then all he has said it that he'd like to be up in the top six, but he's never promised that.

Don't get me wrong; I understand what you're hinting at. But I don't see why we should be in the top six right now, that doesn't mean I'm settling for mediocrity, but in my mind I'm just settling realistic expectations on this season. I can't believe that some people want this club to get even worse by chopping and changing managers again when we're finally starting to see some promise.

I'm not saying Levein has ever said we would be challenging for promotion. I'm saying that the club should be challenging for promotion and getting crowds in, which isn't happening under Levein's brand of 'keep it tight' football.

This club needs to be aiming to go up, otherwise we'll be stuck in this division for years and our attendances will be back to those of Filbert Street.

[Matt]

When will people learn and stop talking about Promotion like we expect and automatically deserve to be promoted? As soon as we went down orginally I said "we are now just an average division 1 side" what happened? We finished as a average division 1 side, Start of this season I really didn't know what to except top 10? Mid-Table? I wasn't sure, but I certainly wasn't looking or expecting promotion. I am annoyed about all the draws and it's getting very fustrating and very boring and to be honest it becoming a joke, I do not expect to be winning every game, but to win a few and to have some consistancy would be a start!

But please when will people learn we are not to expect promotion?

[Thracian]

Go onto the official site and read his interview. He knows where the problems are.

"I don't think he's shown enough to justify keeping him for next season" Has he been so bad to justify sacking him? I think it's laughable that people believe sacking him and getting someone else in will turn us into world beaters. What do i know though, i'm sure you are right.

I've never said sack him - quite the contrary - but you seem to resent ANYONE for wanting the club to aim for a bit more than mediocre.

I have no idea whether you work for the club in some way but if it were left to you and some of your friends we wouldn't have a murmur of dissent from a season full of 0-0 draws.

I've been called fickle (after 48 years as a supporter), I've been called Chandler (when I campaigned vigourously for an end to the MA era and even challenged Chandler himself to a £100 bet that City wouldn't be relegated under Levein).

So with those basic errors from the "satisfied cos Levein's building slowly brigade", don't you just wonder if some of the other posters - those campaigning for some positive football - might have points worth listening to and considering?

Of course Levein knows where the problems lie - loads of us told him to get a decent striker (or two) in the summer. He didn't and that is becoming patently obvious.

Hammond will not be a decent striker for all the reasons we witnessed today - his close control is lousy, he doesn't shield the ball well, he doesn't lose defenders easily and naturally and he doesn't clinically hit the target.

Some like me have asked why not give young Chambers a chance until we can find a senior replacement.

Others have mentioned Dodds.

Too young, too young scream the critics. Smith is young but was the best attacker on our side of the park by a distance today. And against PLymouth and against Preston in the bit that he was used. Stearman is young (yet better than Maybury in my view) and I won't mention anyone else out of respect for your sensibilities.

Chambers is not too young either. He would cope especially as he's not really a get-stuck-in sort of player. He's a lurker. He plays on the fringes, in the shadows and pounces. Three or four times a game he makes an opening and he often takes one.

The risk in using Chambers is negligible. Any goals would be a bonus cos Hammond's scored one (while Chambers scores for fun). Nothing would be lost cos Hammond has very little general effect either by way of defence-splitting passing, tracking back, wonderful decoy runs. Chambers on the other hand can create goals as well as score them.

So why not try him?. Why stick with people who constantly fail. Hume, MDV and Dublin are different cos, if they don't score they often have an effect in other ways.

Hammond and Sylla are the major weak points up front. Sylla has improved but he still has so little effect by way of goals or assists.

[Babylon]

but you seem to resent ANYONE for wanting the club to aim for a bit more than mediocre.

Well you seem to resent anyone who is willing to be patient and not set pointlessly high expectations.

I fully understand exactly where people like you and Anish are coming from, the problem is you don't seem to understand where me and the others are coming from. Just because we are patient we get labled as not wanting good things for the club.

[Blue Arrow]

Blah B;ah B;ah give him until 10 or so matches into NEXT season - then we'll see if there has been improve,ments. There is no quick fix to the mess we were in after MA, and changes managers won't help

[Babylon]

Another sarky reply as usual.

He's not done badly that's for sure. He's done a lot for the club off the pitch and for that I'll give him a lot of credit. He's cleared the deadwood and bought some promising young players, as well as developing the academy and bringing youngsters through the ranks. He's certainly no failure so far.

But, there are signs that things aren't progressing as they should be. Goalscoring is a major problem for us and has been throughout last season too. Attendances are dwindling and fans are beginning to turn away in their droves due to bad results and lack of entertainment. This is a business after all, and the board will only put up with dire attendances and performances for so long. If Levein is here this time next year and we are in the same predicament, I can definitely envisage the board taking drastic action. It's costing the club a lot of money in lost profits. Plus you also have to consider that we have one of the biggest wage structures in this division, and to justify that we need to be one of the top teams in the division, which we clearly aren't.

I don't believe sacking him and getting someone else will make us world beaters. But I also don't believe in keeping somebody here who isn't delivering on the club's targets (playoff contenders, top 10 at least) and who is keeping the fans away with goalless bore draws either.

Apologies you thought it was sarcastic, it was not meant to be. I understand exactly where you are coming from Anish and I agree with you. I suppose it's all down to how quick people expect things to happen, i'm a very patient person so it's probably why I am willing to be in this for the long haul.

When Adams left we all had a set of things that we wanted to be changed, for me Levein is ticking the boxes. Obviously it is taking longer than some are willing to give, but I just look back to some of the games under Adams and I realise we are taking the right steps.

We compained early in the season about how bad we were at defending, Levein said he would be working really hard on that in training. At the time people laughed and called him because he was sounding like Adams. The difference is it worked!! It's not just about working on the back four it's about defending as a team.

He now says he's going to work more on the attacking side, it may take 6, 7, 8, 10 games to see the improvement but I think it will come. It worked with the defending so who's to say it won't with the attacking. Any football pudit or manager will tell you that you have to build from the back and that's the way he going about it.

[shen]

[...] Some like me have asked why not give young Chambers a chance until we can find a senior replacement.

Others have mentioned Dodds.

Too young, too young scream the critics. [...] Chambers is not too young either.

[...]

Well didn't someone find out that League rules state that you have to be 16 or older to play? That rules out Chambo for a bit then, so out of the window with that idea...sorry. I would love to see him play as much as you do, but if there's a rule there's little Chambo or Levein can do about it...

[...]

He now says he's going to work more on the attacking side, it may take 6, 7, 8, 10 games to see the improvement but I think it will come. It worked with the defending so who's to say it won't with the attacking. Any football pudit or manager will tell you that you have to build from the back and that's the way he going about it.

Yes, it worked. It took a little time, but he and his staff got the defensive side relatively sorted (we will get punished with Nils at LB and Rab in goal at some point, that is a certainty). The reason it might not go as fast with the attacking side of things is simply that we don't have as good potential in the middle/up front as in the back. We all knew that Gerrbrand, McCarthy, Stearman and Sheehan had promise, that Maybury (and to some extent Dublin) had class and most of us agreed that Nils was the scoop of the summer for us. Joey is a different player this season, so the ingredients were there. On top of that, Levein was a defender in his playing days. It's different up front. Hume and Smith are our only potential weapons. Hughes hasn't got going and is often out injured, De Vries seems close to performing to the best ability he can, while Sylla, Williams and Hammond are all seriously misfiring. Beyond Xmas we probably wont have Smith anymore and then we're stuck with Hughes, Hammill or Tiatto out on the wing which is less than ideal! So on that basis alone it seems a whole different matter for Levein to put things straight up front, and I fear it may take quite a lot more than "6, 7, 8, 10 games" to solve our problem...

[MC Prussian]

To be honest, I can't tell. The team as of right now is not playing that well together. Either because they don't like playing with each other or because Craig Levein is playing them on positions they're not used to play on. It's a rather confusing situation and on top of that, some players show a very erratic form from one game to the other, like Tiatto, Dublin, Williams, Kisnorbo or McCarthy. Consistency is what we're lacking.

(O.K., we're consistently drawing 0-0, but that's just the result of the above points.)

And don't forget that this year's Championship campaign is a very weird one, as well. Every team can be beaten by every other team. Of course, Sheffield United and Reading are the two to beat, but look at the clubs that follow after them: Watford (whom we have beaten away!), Luton (the newbies, who are now starting to slump), Leeds (anyone thought about them being 5th after 18 rounds?) and Southampton (who we have just drawn).

The situation is not clear. And I would personally hold back any prognosis, because it's almost impossible to make one.

Keeping all those points in mind, we could make the playoffs in the end. And even be promoted. Seriously.

Ther are some many possibilities in this year's league, and so few certainties. And if one thing is for certain, then it is that nothing is for certain. Period.

[Babylon]

Yes, it worked. It took a little time, but he and his staff got the defensive side relatively sorted (we will get punished with Nils at LB and Rab in goal at some point, that is a certainty). The reason it might not go as fast with the attacking side of things is simply that we don't have as good potential in the middle/up front as in the back. We all knew that Gerrbrand, McCarthy, Stearman and Sheehan had promise, that Maybury (and to some extent Dublin) had class and most of us agreed that Nils was the scoop of the summer for us. Joey is a different player this season, so the ingredients were there. On top of that, Levein was a defender in his playing days. It's different up front. Hume and Smith are our only potential weapons. Hughes hasn't got going and is often out injured, De Vries seems close to performing to the best ability he can, while Sylla, Williams and Hammond are all seriously misfiring. Beyond Xmas we probably wont have Smith anymore and then we're stuck with Hughes, Hammill or Tiatto out on the wing which is less than ideal! So on that basis alone it seems a whole different matter for Levein to put things straight up front, and I fear it may take quite a lot more than "6, 7, 8, 10 games" to solve our problem...

I think you are probably right not to expect a massive improvement, as you say we certainly don't have the attacking options. With smith, hughes (when fit), Sylla, Hume and Deep Freeze we have enough in the team to get some goals. At this point a minor improvement (one goal a game) would be have us flying up the table as we aren't letting any in!

Only time will tell.

[Jimmy]

hammil was brought in a a future prospect, sylla is starting to show sings of class, with the prospect of young weso/joey along side hughes in the middle and smith on the left (i think arsenal will extend smiths loan).

theres also a scary rumour that lee morris starts full training tomorrow, so maybe we're getting some good luck finally

[Thracian]

I think you are probably right not to expect a massive improvement, as you say we certainly don't have the attacking options. With smith, hughes (when fit), Sylla, Hume and Deep Freeze we have enough in the team to get some goals. At this point a minor improvement (one goal a game) would be have us flying up the table as we aren't letting any in!

Only time will tell.

I understood we had the option, second half of the season, on Smith. Is that incorrect or don't we know?.

[Jimmy]

we have 1st option but arsenal have to agree, obviously

[Gené and Tonic]

When will people learn and stop talking about Promotion like we expect and automatically deserve to be promoted? As soon as we went down orginally I said "we are now just an average division 1 side" what happened? We finished as a average division 1 side, Start of this season I really didn't know what to except top 10? Mid-Table? I wasn't sure, but I certainly wasn't looking or expecting promotion. I am annoyed about all the draws and it's getting very fustrating and very boring and to be honest it becoming a joke, I do not expect to be winning every game, but to win a few and to have some consistancy would be a start!

But please when will people learn we are not to expect promotion?

Well as a side that was established in the Premiership, got back up and came down again, I'm sure many of the supporters would expect nothing less than the play-offs. If you let this club become an average divsion 1 side, and expect nothing more, then we'll be here for as long as you keep thinking that.

[Guest]

Here we go again....

Before this season started, most people were saying they'd be happy to see an improvement on last. Very few people mentioned 'promotion'.

Now it's all changed, we have this divine right, all of a sudden, to be up there fighting for it?

My only complaint is that I'm still not enjoying watching them. If we were getting results, then it puts a diferent perspective on things, but even I expected we would drop more points than I would like this season!! Whilst there can be no defined time limit as to how long a club sticks with it's manager, part of me thinks it is too soon to think about sacking Levein.

As for crowds dwindling, that's happening almost everywhere, it's not just City. I personally think that football's bubble has burst. It happens in cycles, football becomes popular, football loses popularity, football becomes popular....and so on.

[Gené and Tonic]

Watford, Cardiff, QPR. I'm glad your happy to be behind them.

[Libertine]

Watford, Cardiff, QPR. I'm glad your happy to be behind them.

Who said anything about being happy that we're behind them?

[Gené and Tonic]

Well they seem to be doing better than us, Cardiff and Watford with tighter budgets and relitively new squads. It's just a shame that our fans seem content to just improve on last years mediocre position. Which will get us nowhere.

[Babylon]

Well as a side that was established in the Premiership, got back up and came down again, I'm sure many of the supporters would expect nothing less than the play-offs. If you let this club become an average divsion 1 side, and expect nothing more, then we'll be here for as long as you keep thinking that.

So that's how it works, mind over matter. If we all believe we are as big and as good as Chelsea we will get promoted and win the premier league.

Nottingham Forest were Europen champions and look at them now. Their fans had delusions of grandure and couldn't accept that they simply were not good enough, didn't do them much good did it. When will you realise that this isn't the same team or the same club that was established in the premier league. EVERYTHING has changed, we all want to get promoted and play brilliant football. But thinking we deserve better than what we have got at the minute isn't going to do that.

I don't "expect" anything in this life. Nothing is guaranteed, certainly not on the football pitch.