Owner funding

[Clever Fox]

I wouldn't question anything Susan does. She's one of the very top CEOs in the uk never mind Football. She's a very streetwise lady and we.re lucky to have her.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Because it was a stupid point and still is a stupid point. They are the club, they own it, it’s THEIR ambition. Why would they sell when their management is bringing everything they want and more over the last decade.
 

Money doesn’t always bring success, shall we look at the shit show up at Everton recently. Waste of money on top of waste of money, smart management from top to bottom is equally important and we have it.

 

When they’ve built the club up even further, to the point of being debt free, larger ground, amazing training complex. Maybe then they could look to cash in, because we’ll be a far more desirable purchase. But honestly I’d rather have their management than someone with £400m to spend and no idea how.

 

I honestly cannot fathom how anyone can look at where we’ve come from and where we currently are and suggest with a straight face they should sell to some unknown entity with a bit of cash. 

Deary me... 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

3 hours ago, Danny Clender said:

I totally disagreed with your post, on another thread, about the divisions in our fans regarding expectations, but then I read where you'd explained about the club seeking potential extra investment form other sources whilst Top etc remain at the club. This made more sense to me than your original post and sounds a more plausible solution.

 

I'd still like to know though, what are your ambitions / expectations and what are the clubs ambitions / expectations?

I think our ambitions have to be to consistently challenge that top 4 and the argument “well we did it last season” doesn’t stack up when you look at our league placings prior to that.

 

There’s no reason why, with solid investment, we cannot be in European competition consistently and I think that this is also the club’s ambition (be it CL or Europa).

 

I think off the pitch we’re building an infrastructure that can deliver that. But on the pitch I would question. If we were really making our mark we would have strengthened last January and be talking about a Champions League campaign right now. 
 

When Wolves are bringing in the likes of Jimenez, Moutinho and Neves at unbelievable prices and Everton are signing the likes of Rodriguez for a reasonable fee, there’s no reason why with some more investment on the playing side and in the right type of football operations staff we couldn’t too and that might just be the difference.

 

As things stand we have a quality manager but we’re having to take punts on players with potential due to the price bracket we’re shopping in. Two or three bad windows and the opportunity will go - Wolves, Everton, Newcastle (takeover permitting) all have the potential to kick on and all of a sudden you could be looking at being the 10th best side in the league.

 

I really do feel we’re at an inflection point. Add a top quality winger, a good quality support striker and a top quality centre half and it would make such a difference. If we don’t have the money to do it this window then that’s two windows that would be a missed opportunity...

 

 

 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

Amateurish off the field.... unbelievable.

 

We are near the top not just because of Rodgers, but because of amateurs in the recruitment team assembled a decent squad, again.

 

We won’t buy or attract ready made top talent very often because we are Leicester City. Obvious top players have their pick of dozens of teams far more glamorous than us, with champions league football as well.

 

We are going to continue to shop in the market mostly for rough diamonds we can help polish up and give them a pathway to bigger and better things. It’s as simple as that, But the best ones will also be sought after, so it’s a difficult market to shop in.

 

The higher we go the harder it is.

The top players these days are bought from agents not clubs for all intents and purposes.

 

If you don’t have that little black book of contacts and the ear of the super agents then you’re not getting those superstars.

 

If you have a Head of Recruitment and/or Director Of Football used to dining at that table and mixing in those circles then it becomes a lot easier. Not to mention the investment to pay the type of fees (to the agents) it costs at that level.

 

We have a former academy director as our director of football and Rodgers’ mate as Head of Recruitment. Where would Jon Rudkin start with brokering a deal for Ziyech or Rodriguez? Drawing on his experience wrapping up a deal for Leo Ulloa or Richie De Laet?

 

The harsh reality is that if we want to be fishing in that pond - which we should be, not all the time but just for the couple of real quality additions we need right now that can sustain or improve our level - then we probably need to splash a little more cash and get some guys in who know how to grease the wheels of those deals.

[Danny Clender]

13 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

I think our ambitions have to be to consistently challenge that top 4 and the argument “well we did it last season” doesn’t stack up when you look at our league placings prior to that.

 

There’s no reason why, with solid investment, we cannot be in European competition consistently and I think that this is also the club’s ambition (be it CL or Europa).

 

I think off the pitch we’re building an infrastructure that can deliver that. But on the pitch I would question. If we were really making our mark we would have strengthened last January and be talking about a Champions League campaign right now. 
 

When Wolves are bringing in the likes of Jimenez, Moutinho and Neves at unbelievable prices and Everton are signing the likes of Rodriguez for a reasonable fee, there’s no reason why with some more investment on the playing side and in the right type of football operations staff we couldn’t too and that might just be the difference.

 

As things stand we have a quality manager but we’re having to take punts on players with potential due to the price bracket we’re shopping in. Two or three bad windows and the opportunity will go - Wolves, Everton, Newcastle (takeover permitting) all have the potential to kick on and all of a sudden you could be looking at being the 10th best side in the league.

 

I really do feel we’re at an inflection point. Add a top quality winger, a good quality support striker and a top quality centre half and it would make such a difference. If we don’t have the money to do it this window then that’s two windows that would be a missed opportunity...

 

 

 

You have great conviction and its clear to you our ambition is underwhelming, sorry, I just don't see what we're not doing wrong at present.

 

I know everyone will say, the Mendes connection at Wolves explains a lot toward the prices.

They have caught up quickly, but it's still down to looking at Leicester and using us an inspiration as to where they are today.

I don't think Rodriguez seems like our sort of signing and I don't think high profile names really fit our ambition, only time will tell with him if he works for Everton or not. 

 

Early days yet, but Castagne has caused an immediate buzz, Ünder sounds promising, Fofana could still happen and if he doesn't, a promising CB will be signed, I'd be surprised if not.

 

 

[KingsX]

15 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

The top players these days are bought from agents not clubs for all intents and purposes.

 

If you don’t have that little black book of contacts and the ear of the super agents then you’re not getting those superstars.

 

If you have a Head of Recruitment and/or Director Of Football used to dining at that table and mixing in those circles then it becomes a lot easier. Not to mention the investment to pay the type of fees (to the agents) it costs at that level.

 

The hell "superstars" are we signing on our level of income?

 

And why should we be rushing to support the chancers who have managed to manipulate their role as "agents" into a form of day trading where the only objective is to move players as often as possible, whether or not it benefits them, much less the clubs?  Let the Man U's and Arsenals piss millions down that cancerous hole.  And let me know how well they are doing.

 

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

So what am I missing here. I thought the Owners were worth close to 2 billion.

 

I understand they need to concentrate on the core business KP.

Even with Covid you would be awhile burning through that much cash. 

Or is it that after the tragic death of Vichi the Family aside from Top has stepped back from the Club. Which is reasonable to understand. And would explain the reduced funding available.

They have repeatedly said they want the club to stand on its own two feet. That means no investment from them, unless of course we were in desperate need.

 

People (not you) need to stop bleating on about spends in individual transfer windows as the project is measured in decades.

 

Investing in infrastructure will grow us naturally, so will success on the pitch. They aren’t stupid, they know that it’s a balance and that’s why we pump more into wages than any club of a similar size.

 

 

[Babylon]

44 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

The top players these days are bought from agents not clubs for all intents and purposes.

 

If you don’t have that little black book of contacts and the ear of the super agents then you’re not getting those superstars.

 

If you have a Head of Recruitment and/or Director Of Football used to dining at that table and mixing in those circles then it becomes a lot easier. Not to mention the investment to pay the type of fees (to the agents) it costs at that level.

 

We have a former academy director as our director of football and Rodgers’ mate as Head of Recruitment. Where would Jon Rudkin start with brokering a deal for Ziyech or Rodriguez? Drawing on his experience wrapping up a deal for Leo Ulloa or Richie De Laet?

 

The harsh reality is that if we want to be fishing in that pond - which we should be, not all the time but just for the couple of real quality additions we need right now that can sustain or improve our level - then we probably need to splash a little more cash and get some guys in who know how to grease the wheels of those deals.

“Which we should be”? Why should we be? We are Leicester City, I hate to break it to you but you sound utterly delusional about what and who we are.

 

We’ve come closer to regularly challenging the top 6 than any club remotely close to our size (and many much larger) than anyone else in about the last 30 years. What we’ve managed to do already is incredible, doing what you want is nigh on impossible without Manchester City type money that we don’t have and that people aren’t desperate to pump into us. 
 

We aren’t going to sign top talent, we can’t afford it. We don’t have the pull other clubs do. So we are about signing them on the way up, it’s doing that which will help a club like us finance projects to make us bigger eventually. But that bigger is Villa, Everton, Newcastle size and not Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal.

 

You seem to think sucking off some agent will get us a player over others. Nope.... money does that, silly money that makes it impossible to turn a team down.

Edited 16 September 2020 by Babylon

[Babylon]

58 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Deary me... 

They could close the doors tomorrow and sell everything to a builder. Like it or not, they are.

[Raw Dykes]

44 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

The top players these days are bought from agents not clubs for all intents and purposes.

 

If you don’t have that little black book of contacts and the ear of the super agents then you’re not getting those superstars.

 

If you have a Head of Recruitment and/or Director Of Football used to dining at that table and mixing in those circles then it becomes a lot easier. Not to mention the investment to pay the type of fees (to the agents) it costs at that level.

 

We have a former academy director as our director of football and Rodgers’ mate as Head of Recruitment. Where would Jon Rudkin start with brokering a deal for Ziyech or Rodriguez? Drawing on his experience wrapping up a deal for Leo Ulloa or Richie De Laet?

 

The harsh reality is that if we want to be fishing in that pond - which we should be, not all the time but just for the couple of real quality additions we need right now that can sustain or improve our level - then we probably need to splash a little more cash and get some guys in who know how to grease the wheels of those deals.

Our wages to income ratio is really high as it is. I think for last season or the one before, it was 84%, and only Everton's was higher at 85%.

 

The sort of player you're talking about are on £250k p/w or higher. Where we stand, we haven't got a hope of affording one of those on the wage bill. And do we want one? We were within a gnat's cock of CL football this season without one.

 

We're looking for those same players before they're earning that sort of money, and doing a very good job of it.

 

I think we've got a long, long way to go on the road of building up the profile of the club before we're attracting the sort of player you want in their prime.

Edited 16 September 2020 by Raw Dykes

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, UHDrive said:

I do agree. Having watched these play out over the years and measuring us against other clubs, to me it seems like we go into negotiating too tough i.e. low balling proposed fees and hence drawing out negotiations for too long and sometimes too late.

What clubs are you measuring us against exactly. We have just about the best hit rate in terms of transfer than anyone in the top flight. Perhaps our process works and you are measuring us against clubs making lots of quick crap transfers.

 

I’ll say it again, it’s very very easy to buy shit players.

[Webbo]

I remember following us away at a freezing cold Scunthorpe during the league 1 season. Seems strange now that top 5 in the PL isn't good enough for some and the owners are somehow gypping us. 

[Chrysalis]

2 hours ago, Markyblue said:

Our league positions over the last few years disagree. How much have similar type clubs like Everton,  west ham even villa and Brighton spent and what have they achieved. 

That is more of a measure of scouting teams and manager/coaches rather than recruitment negotiations.  I agree we appear to have a better scouting system and have made better managerial appointments.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

“Which we should be”? Why should we be? We are Leicester City, I hate to break it to you but you sound utterly delusional about what and who we are.

 

We’ve come closer to regularly challenging the top 6 than any club remotely close to our size (and many much larger) than anyone else in about the last 30 years. What we’ve managed to do already is incredible, doing what you want is nigh on impossible without Manchester City type money that we don’t have and that people aren’t desperate to pump into us. 
 

We aren’t going to sign top talent, we can’t afford it. We don’t have the pull other clubs do. So we are about signing them on the way up, it’s doing that which will help a club like us finance projects to make us bigger eventually. But that bigger is Villa, Everton, Newcastle size and not Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal.

 

You seem to think sucking off some agent will get us a player over others. Nope.... money does that, silly money that makes it impossible to turn a team down.

Small mind mentality. 

[Chrysalis]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

What clubs are you measuring us against exactly. We have just about the best hit rate in terms of transfer than anyone in the top flight. Perhaps our process works and you are measuring us against clubs making lots of quick crap transfers.

 

I’ll say it again, it’s very very easy to buy shit players.

How many other clubs were unable to field a player costing 10s of millions because they couldnt meet a deadline for a 7 week transfer window?  Since susan is untouchable, same with top and rudkin, who do you blame for that particular transfer?

 

Also have you forgotten about all our own failed transfers? we do have our own failures, like all clubs do.

 

 

Edited 16 September 2020 by Chrysalis

[Freeman's Wharfer]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

I remember following us away at a freezing cold Scunthorpe during the league 1 season. Seems strange now that top 5 in the PL isn't good enough for some and the owners are somehow gypping us. 

Except that’s not what people are saying.

 

It’s fine to take the indignant “what are these people on about we just finished 5th, are they delusional?” line now and of course on the surface it sounds delusional that any Leicester fan would be unhappy with where we finished last year.

 

But what we’re actually talking about here is an opportunity to CAPITALISE on this. To invest from a position of strength. To say “amazing we’ve finished 5th, how do we make this a regular occurrence?”.

If we don’t invest now in two to three years as others get stronger we’ll be left behind. You’re absolutely right that we are punching above our weight and you can say “but we’re Leicester City” and you can judge future potential on past history.

 

But I’d rather see the ambition to push on even more and not to look back and go “remember when we were 5th and we didn’t go and spend on some quality players - imagine what might have happened if we did...” At -£6m owner investment there is an opportunity for it to happen without breaking the bank.

 

So many of our fan base seem to be content to live out the rest of our days just ticking along in mid table. 

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Except that’s not what people are saying.

 

It’s fine to take the indignant “what are these people on about we just finished 5th, are they delusional?” line now and of course on the surface it sounds delusional that any Leicester fan would be unhappy with where we finished last year.

 

But what we’re actually talking about here is an opportunity to CAPITALISE on this. To invest from a position of strength. To say “amazing we’ve finished 5th, how do we make this a regular occurrence?”.

If we don’t invest now in two to three years as others get stronger we’ll be left behind. You’re absolutely right that we are punching above our weight and you can say “but we’re Leicester City” and you can judge future potential on past history.

 

But I’d rather see the ambition to push on even more and not to look back and go “remember when we were 5th and we didn’t go and spend on some quality players - imagine what might have happened if we did...” At -£6m owner investment there is an opportunity for it to happen without breaking the bank.

 

So many of our fan base seem to be content to live out the rest of our days just ticking along in mid table. 

How do you know we're not going to capitalise on this? We've got this far by being sensible why is it all of a sudden a bad idea?

[UHDrive]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

What clubs are you measuring us against exactly. We have just about the best hit rate in terms of transfer than anyone in the top flight. Perhaps our process works and you are measuring us against clubs making lots of quick crap transfers.

 

I’ll say it again, it’s very very easy to buy shit players.

I agree with what you are saying. I'm no expert in this area and I'm not comparing us against other teams except Chelsea & wolves etc as to why they seem to be able to condense certain signings much quicker than us.

[Kopfkino]

Just now, UHDrive said:

I agree with what you are saying. I'm no expert in this area and I'm not comparing us against other teams except Chelsea & wolves etc as to why they seem to be able to condense certain signings much quicker than us.

 

But how do you know that they do? You see the tip of the iceberg and you obviously pay far more attention to what's going on with LCFC than others.

 

It's something you see on pretty much every forum, that their club is slower than others. I'm pretty sure it's just cos people actually pay attention to their own club and only see what other clubs are doing once there's sufficient noise.

[deanolegend1989]

6 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Except that’s not what people are saying.

 

It’s fine to take the indignant “what are these people on about we just finished 5th, are they delusional?” line now and of course on the surface it sounds delusional that any Leicester fan would be unhappy with where we finished last year.

 

But what we’re actually talking about here is an opportunity to CAPITALISE on this. To invest from a position of strength. To say “amazing we’ve finished 5th, how do we make this a regular occurrence?”.

If we don’t invest now in two to three years as others get stronger we’ll be left behind. You’re absolutely right that we are punching above our weight and you can say “but we’re Leicester City” and you can judge future potential on past history.

 

But I’d rather see the ambition to push on even more and not to look back and go “remember when we were 5th and we didn’t go and spend on some quality players - imagine what might have happened if we did...” At -£6m owner investment there is an opportunity for it to happen without breaking the bank.

 

So many of our fan base seem to be content to live out the rest of our days just ticking along in mid table. 

Spot on. I’m fed up of some of the fanbase that seem intent of crushing anyone who thinks we could become bigger.

As you say, it’s not about being delusional it’s about having ambition to be better.

Why can’t we become a regular top team competing with the best?

Since 1990s we arguably have a better history than anyone bar the top 5. People seem to base us being ‘little Leicester’ in the same way as Leeds appear to be so huge from the media due to their history before the 90s.

Money has changed football. The size of a club due to how well they did when it was an even playing field is actually pretty irrelevant now.

The reality is now it’s about the future and we are in a position to build if we want to.

In 10-15-20 years we could of built a legacy and then we’d be a club with a good history over a quarter of a century etc.

We can be as big as we want to be. Do we have the ambition? I’m not doubting the owners and we are building a club up, training ground, 45k seater stadium. The futures bright and whilst the lack of investment on the playing side is not clear recently, hopefully Top knows what’s he’s doing.
 

If due to CV it’s harder for King Power and he’s focusing on the off field stuff then I’d prefer that than over spend like Leeds did and ruin the next 2 decades in financial troubles and lower league football.

In Top I trust. As long as he has ambitions to make us push higher and sustain then I trust his business judgements to do so.

[Babylon]

30 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Except that’s not what people are saying.

 

It’s fine to take the indignant “what are these people on about we just finished 5th, are they delusional?” line now and of course on the surface it sounds delusional that any Leicester fan would be unhappy with where we finished last year.

 

But what we’re actually talking about here is an opportunity to CAPITALISE on this. To invest from a position of strength. To say “amazing we’ve finished 5th, how do we make this a regular occurrence?”.

If we don’t invest now in two to three years as others get stronger we’ll be left behind. You’re absolutely right that we are punching above our weight and you can say “but we’re Leicester City” and you can judge future potential on past history.

 

But I’d rather see the ambition to push on even more and not to look back and go “remember when we were 5th and we didn’t go and spend on some quality players - imagine what might have happened if we did...” At -£6m owner investment there is an opportunity for it to happen without breaking the bank.

 

So many of our fan base seem to be content to live out the rest of our days just ticking along in mid table. 

You can’t just spend in one window to stay regularly in the top six. You have to spend year after year after year.

 

You are asking the impossible, unless there is someone out there with a bottomless pit wanting to invest in us (which there won’t be).

 

Right now you need to accept that there are going to be ups and downs in what we do. And that there is a long term plan, a plan that will take decades to implement and realise. It’s already been a decade and look at the progress.

 

Without billions to spend what we are doing is the correct long term solution. People bleating on about others strengthening, Wolves have done as little as us and Everton are signing a bunch of names with no long term plan again.

 

Everton are Everton though, they, Villa, Leeds, Newcastle, Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday if ran correctly should all be ahead of us. Fan base and ground size usually dictates position due to the extra income.

 

But they aren’t ahead of us because we have a long term plan and great decision makers.

[Babylon]

52 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

How many other clubs were unable to field a player costing 10s of millions because they couldnt meet a deadline for a 7 week transfer window?  Since susan is untouchable, same with top and rudkin, who do you blame for that particular transfer?

 

Also have you forgotten about all our own failed transfers? we do have our own failures, like all clubs do.

 

 

Who said we didn’t have failures and Rudkin took a shit load of flack, from me as well for that. You learn from your mistakes and he continually has.

 

Our scouting is the envy of most clubs currently. Our buy, sell, replace strategy is working and funding the club to be one of the biggest wage payers out there.

 

To try and pretend otherwise is bollocks. Every club including us will have failures, but if you get 3/5 right in a big way then it pays handsomely.

 

Your point also have nothing to do with the discussion.

[Babylon]

27 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Spot on. I’m fed up of some of the fanbase that seem intent of crushing anyone who thinks we could become bigger.

As you say, it’s not about being delusional it’s about having ambition to be better.

Why can’t we become a regular top team competing with the best?

Since 1990s we arguably have a better history than anyone bar the top 5. People seem to base us being ‘little Leicester’ in the same way as Leeds appear to be so huge from the media due to their history before the 90s.

Money has changed football. The size of a club due to how well they did when it was an even playing field is actually pretty irrelevant now.

The reality is now it’s about the future and we are in a position to build if we want to.

In 10-15-20 years we could of built a legacy and then we’d be a club with a good history over a quarter of a century etc.

We can be as big as we want to be. Do we have the ambition? I’m not doubting the owners and we are building a club up, training ground, 45k seater stadium. The futures bright and whilst the lack of investment on the playing side is not clear recently, hopefully Top knows what’s he’s doing.
 

If due to CV it’s harder for King Power and he’s focusing on the off field stuff then I’d prefer that than over spend like Leeds did and ruin the next 2 decades in financial troubles and lower league football.

In Top I trust. As long as he has ambitions to make us push higher and sustain then I trust his business judgements to do so.

Who on here has said don’t have ambition? They are saying our current plan is the ONLY feasible plan open to us and it takes years to realise.

 

Why can’t we be a regular top team? We don’t have the money. It takes hundreds of millions regularly pumped in each season for it to last. We don’t have it, so it has to be steady and gradual growth, it could take 20 years or more.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Small mind mentality. 

Mentality of someone who understands football finances, is realistic, and basically understands football outside of FIFA.

[Fox in the North]

This is the gap between the top premier league clubs and the rest from the Deloitte Money League. As you can see there’s a hefty gap would not be filled overnight.