Owner funding

[Rusko187]

Is it really a bad thing that we're still a successful team, without the need of our owners piling in cash. We're self sufficient with an exciting team of young talent and a state of the art training facility on the horizon, when the training facility and stadium expansion are complete, I really feel we will see the next step to our clubs development.

 

This is the thing I like about our ownership, always focused on the actual infrastructure of the club and ensuring it's ran extremely well, as opposed to stacking a load of cash on journeyman players and expecting them to perform miracles. Sensible transfer policy, and excellent scouting network. What's to get upset about?

[Foxes1]

2 hours ago, JamesfromlondonLCFC said:

 

According to this, over the last five years the owners have only injected 6 million into the club. So not too convinced about the 'duty free sales drops causing lack of funding' narrative thats been going on.

So looking at this looks like you need to spend big to achieve success I mean look at the teams in 2nd, 3rd 4th & 5th, money well spent there.

[Raw Dykes]

8 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

Its no excuse to take a team, turn it into a top 10 prem and label it as a self sufficient team and stop investing in the squad. This is where we'll go backwards. 

 

BR must be frustrated with the lethargy with how long it takes our club to make transfers. 

 

My comment isn't about what the club has already done for us but rather pointing out how important it is to not take the foot off the gas and fall backwards.

It's not just a label. We are self-sufficient. Have you got any idea how difficult it is to take a Championship club, get them to regular top 10 finishes in the PL, break into Europe twice, and make them self-sufficient at that level? How many other clubs have even managed anything like that rise while being pumped full of the owner's cash?

 

Where's the evidence we'll be going backwards?

 

Re: Brendan being happy about transfers, here's a quote from the other day:

 

Q: You said on Friday you were awaiting clarity on the club’s transfer position. What kind of clarity are you awaiting?

BR: “I mentioned about getting clarity on where we would be once the window is shut. We’ll then know exactly where we’re at in terms of players.

“We would like to improve. I said earlier on, it was a fantastic season for us last season, but in order for us to improve, we have ambition, time will develop the players we have here, but we also want to improve in the quality.

“That means not getting a big number of players in but certainly getting a number that will help us develop.

“The club have been absolutely brilliant since the day I came in, and they have always shown that where they can, and where they can afford, and there is a player available, they will do everything to get that player in.

“What everyone can see is that for this team to improve, that will be important.”

 

Q: Do you envisage any incoming business before Burnley?

BR: “I’m not sure. There’s a load of work going behind the scenes by the staff and the recruitment team, a lot of great work.

“We will just see what happens over these next few days. We’ve had contact with other managers and whatnot, and we’ll see how the week goes.

 

Does that sound like frustration over lethargy from the club to you?

 

What we're doing is working very well. We're raising the funds we need to progress through very limited player sales. There is no need for cash injections.

[Lako42]

25 minutes ago, Rusko187 said:

Is it really a bad thing that we're still a successful team, without the need of our owners piling in cash.

No it isn't, it's just not sustainable from a success point of view. Logic suggests we will at some point find our position under threat from clubs that are investing more. 

 

 

However, judging by a few things I have read about the KP business over the last few days it is probably a very good thing that we aren't reliant on their funding at the moment, they are under severe pressure in their bread and butter industry and it is almost inconceivable that they would continue any form of investment here. 

Edited 15 September 2020 by Lako42

[Rusko187]

6 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

No it isn't, it's just not sustainable from a success point of view. Logic suggests we will at some point find our position under threat from clubs that are investing more. 

 

 

However, judging by a few things I have read about the KP business over the last few days it is probably a very good thing that we aren't reliant on their funding at the moment, they are under severe pressure in their bread and butter industry and it is almost inconceivable that they would continue any form of investment here. 

My view is that we're weathering a storm in terms of COVID and Infrastructure investments, when we're clear of training facility, ground expansion and some form of normality to the tourism trade, I totally foresee a huge push on squad. We will have invested everywhere else... only place left for the money to go.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

1 hour ago, Raw Dykes said:

Can't you see that we are doing well while at the same time being near the bottom of that list? In this case, we can have it all ways. We are going on another European tour while being near the bottom of that list.

 

The owners don't need to pump money into the club. They've done a fantastic job of making us self-sufficient. Our recruitment is top-notch, which means we can sell one player a season, and invest in a few more with the profit.

 

Look at the clubs at the top of that list. Everton are guilty of pissing 100s of millions down the drain. They might finally come good this season, but it's about bloody time, really. Fulham and Villa spent massively, and look where it got them. Relegation, and just scraping survival by the skin of their teeth, respectively.

 

We're a particularly well-run club, and as such, have no need for a cash injection to get to where we aspire to be.

I can see that. We are defying the odds again with a European tour this year and it’s largely down to the manager we recruited.

 

But if you think that manager was recruited with a sell-to-buy policy and told that money wouldn’t be there to spend you are kidding yourself.

 

You can hear the frustration from Rodgers that more isn’t happening. You don’t have to spend hundreds of millions but the amount of time he talks about ‘quality’ shows that he knows he doesn’t currently have the two or three extra players that will allow us to compete at that level he wants consistently.

 

We don’t have to tear the rule book up and become unsustainable but putting in a little extra in line with FFP can’t hurt.

 

For what it’s worth I don’t think we don’t have money currently. I think that’s not the issue and that it’s there but we have a pretty amateurish operation off the pitch when it comes to trying to buy top talent (having the book of contacts and the ears of the agents). But the amount of people justifying this inactivity by linking it to impact of Covid on tourism has been absurd.

 

 

[KingsX]

As we all know, KP’s huge initial investment was converted to capital.  No Glazers-style albatross around the club’s neck.  The incredible increase in the value of the club is repayment in itself.

 

It’s true they lately underpay for the sponsorships; and I believe they also take a management fee.  But from a financial perspective, both the club and KP have done superbly.

 

My personal worry * is that the loss of Khun Vichai will have a lasting impact on the priority of the club among KP’s interests.

 

So many Asian family business empires depend on a brilliant, well-connected patriarch.  One hopes KP can navigate the treacherous Thai waters without him.

 

But the club was one of his babies, near and dear to his heart … and he decided where KP’s money went.  While LCFC is equally dear to Top, he is the younger brother and not the chairman of KP.  His mother, brother and sisters share control.  Even before a crisis began bleeding the parent company dry, who in the family would decide that LCFC should continue to receive priority investment?

 

 

   *  even the most optimistic City fan has a monster under the bed … it’s who we are!

[Kopfkino]

People assume the loan for the training ground will be paid back in full. If they're still keen to sort the expansion then that's gonna require some outside funding.

 

They converted debt to equity before, idk what the rationale would be for doing it that way rather than just putting the money in now but could be part of the story.

 

[Lako42]

I think it's fair to say we can forget the expansion for the foreseeable future 

[Raw Dykes]

30 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

I can see that. We are defying the odds again with a European tour this year and it’s largely down to the manager we recruited.

 

But if you think that manager was recruited with a sell-to-buy policy and told that money wouldn’t be there to spend you are kidding yourself.

 

You can hear the frustration from Rodgers that more isn’t happening. You don’t have to spend hundreds of millions but the amount of time he talks about ‘quality’ shows that he knows he doesn’t currently have the two or three extra players that will allow us to compete at that level he wants consistently.

 

We don’t have to tear the rule book up and become unsustainable but putting in a little extra in line with FFP can’t hurt.

 

For what it’s worth I don’t think we don’t have money currently. I think that’s not the issue and that it’s there but we have a pretty amateurish operation off the pitch when it comes to trying to buy top talent (having the book of contacts and the ears of the agents). But the amount of people justifying this inactivity by linking it to impact of Covid on tourism has been absurd.

Do any of us know what was said to Rodgers with regard to a sell-to-buy policy before he signed? You seem sure that he was promised transfer money to spend and that said promise is now being broken. I'd be interested to know if that's based on anything.

 

I know what you mean re: Rodger's frustration, but more recently he said:

 

Q: You said on Friday you were awaiting clarity on the club’s transfer position. What kind of clarity are you awaiting?

BR: “I mentioned about getting clarity on where we would be once the window is shut. We’ll then know exactly where we’re at in terms of players.

“We would like to improve. I said earlier on, it was a fantastic season for us last season, but in order for us to improve, we have ambition, time will develop the players we have here, but we also want to improve in the quality.

“That means not getting a big number of players in but certainly getting a number that will help us develop.

“The club have been absolutely brilliant since the day I came in, and they have always shown that where they can, and where they can afford, and there is a player available, they will do everything to get that player in.

“What everyone can see is that for this team to improve, that will be important.”

 

Q: Do you envisage any incoming business before Burnley?

BR: “I’m not sure. There’s a load of work going behind the scenes by the staff and the recruitment team, a lot of great work.

“We will just see what happens over these next few days. We’ve had contact with other managers and whatnot, and we’ll see how the week goes.

 

Re: 'Top talent.' Could it not be the case that the sort of player you want us to sign is beyond our reach for reasons other than our 'amateurish' approach? Could it not be the case that our profile is not high enough for those sorts of players? Could it not be possible that, until we're regularly bringing trophies home, we haven't got a hope in hell of signing certain players, regardless of how much cash is thrown at them?

 

Besides, we're in the business of producing those players, rather than buying them off the shelf, and it's working out pretty bloody well for us. On the few occasions we have tried to buy high-profile players at the peak of their powers, it's tended to blow up in our faces. Buying potential and selling high has served us extremely well, and I see no reason why we should change our strategy right now.

 

I agree about how much Covid is affecting us via tourism specifically, but I don't think it can seriously be argued that Covid hasn't affected football in general and us included. Obviously, it has.

[l444ry]

30 minutes ago, KingsX said:

As we all know, KP’s huge initial investment was converted to capital.  No Glazers-style albatross around the club’s neck.  The incredible increase in the value of the club is repayment in itself.

 

It’s true they lately underpay for the sponsorships; and I believe they also take a management fee.  But from a financial perspective, both the club and KP have done superbly.

 

My personal worry * is that the loss of Khun Vichai will have a lasting impact on the priority of the club among KP’s interests.

 

So many Asian family business empires depend on a brilliant, well-connected patriarch.  One hopes KP can navigate the treacherous Thai waters without him.

 

But the club was one of his babies, near and dear to his heart … and he decided where KP’s money went.  While LCFC is equally dear to Top, he is the younger brother and not the chairman of KP.  His mother, brother and sisters share control.  Even before a crisis began bleeding the parent company dry, who in the family would decide that LCFC should continue to receive priority investment?

 

 

   *  even the most optimistic City fan has a monster under the bed … it’s who we are!

Pretty sure I read somewhere that it was Top that persuaded Vichai to buy Leicester when the chance came up. Appently he was at our 1997 League Cup game against Middlesborough and had a soft spot for the club ever since. Think we're safe with Top in charge. 

[Bakey]

3 hours ago, crisp packet said:

 

Everyone just overlooking the 195m that our owners put in before the last 5 years???

 

That investment has set us up to be how self sustainable we appear to be now.

 

Although I do think that the Shirt sponsorship and Stadium naming rights don't reflect what they are worth.

 

But I would like to think that if they felt like that needed to invest and could invest more that this would be their preferred 

[UHDrive]

1 hour ago, Raw Dykes said:

It's not just a label. We are self-sufficient. Have you got any idea how difficult it is to take a Championship club, get them to regular top 10 finishes in the PL, break into Europe twice, and make them self-sufficient at that level? How many other clubs have even managed anything like that rise while being pumped full of the owner's cash?

 

Where's the evidence we'll be going backwards?

 

Re: Brendan being happy about transfers, here's a quote from the other day:

 

Q: You said on Friday you were awaiting clarity on the club’s transfer position. What kind of clarity are you awaiting?

BR: “I mentioned about getting clarity on where we would be once the window is shut. We’ll then know exactly where we’re at in terms of players.

“We would like to improve. I said earlier on, it was a fantastic season for us last season, but in order for us to improve, we have ambition, time will develop the players we have here, but we also want to improve in the quality.

“That means not getting a big number of players in but certainly getting a number that will help us develop.

“The club have been absolutely brilliant since the day I came in, and they have always shown that where they can, and where they can afford, and there is a player available, they will do everything to get that player in.

“What everyone can see is that for this team to improve, that will be important.”

 

Q: Do you envisage any incoming business before Burnley?

BR: “I’m not sure. There’s a load of work going behind the scenes by the staff and the recruitment team, a lot of great work.

“We will just see what happens over these next few days. We’ve had contact with other managers and whatnot, and we’ll see how the week goes.

 

Does that sound like frustration over lethargy from the club to you?

 

What we're doing is working very well. We're raising the funds we need to progress through very limited player sales. There is no need for cash injections.

1. We are not fully self sufficient without utilising what every other club utilising - sponsorship monies. We are talking millions.

2. There is no evidence, but there is a word called foresight. Everyone knows, in every business and every economy that if you sit on your arse all nice fat and content, then the club eventually will get burned.

3. Where did I say that?!? Go to specsavers.

4. you talk about developing the sqaud and improvements, are you for real? Our acedemy is shocking and there is hardly any talent at this level. I've certainly watched enough of it. You cannot obtain quality without first purchasing it and most foxes fans im sure would agree that our transfrer policy, albeit well structured, is not up to speed and certainly not as economical as the top 7 teams.

5. You can only improve so far. Our team lacks strength in depth and without increasing quality and taking into account our academy players are not good enough then you cannot possibly make the sqaud more talented.

6. Its useless using Burnley as an excuse, try wolves instead.

7. Yes, there is lethargy. For the past few years and managers since the PL win and including BR's comments over the last 12 months there is clear enough proof that we are too slow.

 

You can only develop a team so far and when you have reached that limit like we did last year and still are then the only way is to inject additional cash flow from sponsorships etc to technically strengthen the squad.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

1. We are not fully self sufficient without utilising what every other club utilising - sponsorship monies. We are talking millions.

2. There is no evidence, but there is a word called foresight. Everyone knows, in every business and every economy that if you sit on your arse all nice fat and content, then the club eventually will get burned.

3. Where did I say that?!? Go to specsavers.

4. you talk about developing the sqaud and improvements, are you for real? Our acedemy is shocking and there is hardly any talent at this level. I've certainly watched enough of it. You cannot obtain quality without first purchasing it and most foxes fans im sure would agree that our transfrer policy, albeit well structured, is not up to speed and certainly not as economical as the top 7 teams.

5. You can only improve so far. Our team lacks strength in depth and without increasing quality and taking into account our academy players are not good enough then you cannot possibly make the sqaud more talented.

6. Its useless using Burnley as an excuse, try wolves instead.

7. Yes, there is lethargy. For the past few years and managers since the PL win and including BR's comments over the last 12 months there is clear enough proof that we are too slow.

 

You can only develop a team so far and when you have reached that limit like we did last year and still are then the only way is to inject additional cash flow from sponsorships etc to technically strengthen the squad.

Please please please tell me you're on the wind-up

[Chrysalis]

5 hours ago, JamesfromlondonLCFC said:

 

According to this, over the last five years the owners have only injected 6 million into the club. So not too convinced about the 'duty free sales drops causing lack of funding' narrative thats been going on.

It seems to indicate they have taken 6m out rather than injected 6m.

[JamesfromlondonLCFC]

2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

It seems to indicate they have taken 6m out rather than injected 6m.

ye i realised after i posted, have changed now.

[Chrysalis]

3 hours ago, Ashley said:

 

I wasn't getting at that. I was getting at the narrative on the forum that just because the tourist industry has gone down it all of a sudden means we have no money to spend. No, no it doesn't. The money is there were being careful and not spending/over spending on shit. 

 

If it takes time to bring in a CB, CM, Winger or Striker then ill be happy. 

Their own business doesnt have an impact because as shown they havent been funding the club.

 

However there is "no" proof we have money to spend.  Just a few posters saying so (without backing it up).

Edited 15 September 2020 by Chrysalis

[Le Renard]

Why do people moan about our club being self sustainable and think every rich owner should empty their pockets to buy players. 

[Ashley]

45 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Their own business doesnt have an impact because as shown they havent been funding the club.

 

However there is "no" proof we have money to spend.  Just a few posters saying so (without backing it up).

Suppose its the same when those poster post about transfer news though too. 

 

Each to their own though

[Raw Dykes]

57 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

1. We are not fully self sufficient without utilising what every other club utilising - sponsorship monies. We are talking millions.

2. There is no evidence, but there is a word called foresight. Everyone knows, in every business and every economy that if you sit on your arse all nice fat and content, then the club eventually will get burned.

3. Where did I say that?!? Go to specsavers.

4. you talk about developing the sqaud and improvements, are you for real? Our acedemy is shocking and there is hardly any talent at this level. I've certainly watched enough of it. You cannot obtain quality without first purchasing it and most foxes fans im sure would agree that our transfrer policy, albeit well structured, is not up to speed and certainly not as economical as the top 7 teams.

5. You can only improve so far. Our team lacks strength in depth and without increasing quality and taking into account our academy players are not good enough then you cannot possibly make the sqaud more talented.

6. Its useless using Burnley as an excuse, try wolves instead.

7. Yes, there is lethargy. For the past few years and managers since the PL win and including BR's comments over the last 12 months there is clear enough proof that we are too slow.

 

You can only develop a team so far and when you have reached that limit like we did last year and still are then the only way is to inject additional cash flow from sponsorships etc to technically strengthen the squad.

1. We are self-sufficient, despite not getting as much in sponsorship as other clubs. A few million is a drop in the ocean in PL terms.

 

2. But we're not sitting on our arse, are we? We progressing spectacularly well with our model. We've gone from Championship to breaking up the big 6. What reason is there to believe we've stopped making any progress all of a sudden?

 

3 - 6. You really need to take your own advice. You need to direct all of those points towards Brendan, not me.

 

4. I'll answer for Rodgers, because there's so much rubbish written here.

 

I just don't know how you can say the academy is 'shocking.' By whose standard? Compared to what? Our academy has been nothing short of excellent recently. We had 3 home-grown senior squad members until very recently when England's first choice left back was sold for £50m (rumoured to possibly be rising to around £70m with add-ons, and it's believed he was sold below what the club valued him at to avoid a bidding war and get a quick sale.).

 

Additionally, Thomas is regarded as an even better prospect than Chilwell, and Barnes could easily be among the top English players in a year or two. We know how much they go for in today's market. If/when he just sorts his finishing out, we're talking £100m+ easily.

 

KDH and Tavares could be the next ones to break into the senior squad.

 

The bottom line is, we've produced two players good enough for the elite in recent years. How many clubs can claim that?

 

"most foxes fans im sure would agree that our transfrer policy, albeit well structured, is not up to speed and certainly not as economical as the top 7 teams."

You're having a laugh. I refuse to believe this is serious.

 

7. Again, I will try to refer you to Rodgers' own words. Remember, these are quotes from Brendan Rodgers, not me, from just a few days ago:

 

“The club have been absolutely brilliant since the day I came in, and they have always shown that where they can, and where they can afford, and there is a player available, they will do everything to get that player in."

 

"There’s a load of work going behind the scenes by the staff and the recruitment team, a lot of great work."

 

I'd like to know how you've come to the conclusion that we're too slow (Silva aside!) in the transfer market. How do you know?

 

Your last sentence is patently untrue. We buy low and sell high. We've done it time after time, after time. We can carry on doing this and increase the value of the squad with zero cash from any other source.

[HighPeakFox]

Most foxes fans I'm sure would agree with every single word I write. 

 

That should see that style of reasoning off pretty sharpish.

[Clever Fox]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

It seems to indicate they have taken 6m out rather than injected 6m.

I'd say that 6 mil is just Corporate expenses absorbed by the Club on behalf of the Owners.I

 

Pennies in the grand scheme of things.

[Chrysalis]

15 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

I'd say that 6 mil is just Corporate expenses absorbed by the Club on behalf of the Owners.I

 

Pennies in the grand scheme of things.

If its pennies, the Silva deal I think got delayed for less then that.

[JamesfromlondonLCFC]

1 hour ago, Le Renard said:

Why do people moan about our club being self sustainable and think every rich owner should empty their pockets to buy players. 

whos moaning?

[Foxxed]

After all the family has done, I’m happy Top is making a profit, and happy we’re growing in a way that’s sustainable. I hate to say this but, after all the money that’s been rinsed from United it’s a credit to Solskjaer that he’s got them in the Champions League. And it’s no wonder Everton hate us, looking at that.

Edited 15 September 2020 by Foxxed