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Group A: Turkey, Italy, Wales, Switzerland

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19 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Guess so unless Denmark beat Russia by more than one goal?

 

This was on the Official site :

 

Tiebreakers

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following tie-breaking criteria are applied:[1]

  1. Higher number of points obtained in the matches played between the teams in question;
  2. Superior goal difference resulting from the matches played between the teams in question;
  3. Higher number of goals scored in the matches played between the teams in question;
  4. If, after having applied criteria 1 to 3, teams still have an equal ranking, criteria 1 to 3 are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the teams who are still level to determine their final rankings.[a] If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria 5 to 10 apply;
  5. Superior goal difference in all group matches;
  6. Higher number of goals scored in all group matches;
  7. Higher number of wins in all group matches;

If on the last round of the group stage, two teams are facing each other and each has the same number of points, as well as the same number of goals scored and conceded, and the score finishes level in their match, their ranking is determined by a penalty shoot-out. (This criterion is not used if more than two teams have the same number of points.); Lower disciplinary points total in all group matches (1 point for a single yellow card, 3 points for a red card as a consequence of two yellow cards, 3 points for a direct red card, 4 points for a yellow card followed by a direct red card); Higher position in the European Qualifiers overall ranking.

The way I read it, Finland would finish second because they beat Denmark? 

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14 minutes ago, Bert said:

The way I read it, Finland would finish second because they beat Denmark? 

 

EDIT: Found this .

 

Criteria if teams finish with equal points:
1. Points in head to head (would be 3 points for all 3 countries in this case)
2. Goal difference in head to head (would depend on tonight's result between Russia and Denmark)
3. Goals scored in head to head (would also depend on tonight's result between Russia and Denmark)
4. If some (but not all) teams are still equal after applying these criteria the above would be applied for the head to head between the teams that are still equal
If above criteria have not separated teams (in this case only if Denmark win 1-0 against Russia) the below criteria will be used:
5. Goal difference in all group matches (in case of a 1-0 win for Denmark would be enough with Finland at 0, Denmark -1 and Russia -3)
6. Goals scored in all group matches

Edited by Super_horns
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13 minutes ago, Bert said:

The way I read it, Finland would finish second because they beat Denmark? 

No because Russia Finland and Denmark would all finish on 3pts so the head2head contains results against both the other 2 teams, not just Finland.

 

If Denmark beat Russia by anything other than 1-0, Denmark would top the H2H league and finish 2nd.

 

This is because Denmark and Russia would finish ahead of Finland on the H2H league on Goals Scored so it then goes down to Denmark vs Russia H2H which Denmark have obviously just won.

 

If Denmark win 1-0 then the H2H league is entirely even with all 3 teams having won 1 and lost 1 1-0.

 

In which case it then goes down to the group standings including Belgium, which Denmark again would very likely top. They would definitely beat Russia on GD if they beat them and very likely beat Finland on either GD (if they lose by more than 1 goal to Belgium) or Goals Scored (if they lose 1-0 to Belgium).

 

Finland would have to score twice and only lose by 1 (so 2-3, 3-4, 4-5 etc.) to finish ahead of Denmark if Denmark only win 1-0. And I can't see Finland scoring twice vs Belgium.

 

If Denmark win 1-0 and Finland lose 1-2 to Belgium so Denmark and Finland are level in pts, GD and GS both the H2H league including Russia and the final group standings including both Russia and Belgium, then it comes down to their disciplinary record in which Denmark currently are winning with 3 yellow cards vs Finland's 4.

 

It doesn't go back to Denmark vs Finland H2H again once the original H2H between Denmark Finland and Russia has been looked at.

 

So it is technically possible Finland could still finish 2nd with a loss, but it's very unlikely and in practice you'd expect a Denmark win to very likely be enough for them to finish 2nd.

Edited by Sampson
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17 minutes ago, Bert said:

The way I read it, Finland would finish second because they beat Denmark? 

If Denmark win today, it then goes down to the GD between the 3 teams only. 

 

Finland have 0 (this can't change) 

Russia will have 0 at best (if Denmark win 1-0)

Denmark will have 0 at worst

 

Then they're all on 3 points. 

(if Denmark win by more than 2, they will then qualify ahead of Finland because they've scored more out of the 3).

 

Edited by StanSP
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1 minute ago, StanSP said:

If Denmark win today, it then goes down to the GD between the 3 teams only. 

 

Finland have 0

Russia will have -2 at best (if Denmark win 1-0)

Denmark will have -1 at worst

 

Then they're all on 3 points. 

The GD criteria is then applied so therefore, out of the 3, Finland have the superior GD (unless Denmark win by more than 2, in which case Denmark will then qualify ahead of Finland. 

 

If Denmark win by 2 only, they'll still qualify ahead of Finland and Russia as they also would have scored the most out of the 3. 

No. It goes to H2H between all 3 teams first and then the standings. Finland would be on -1 GD at best if they lose to Belgium not 0.

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25 minutes ago, Sampson said:

No because Russia Finland and Denmark would all finish on 3pts so the head2head contains results against both the other 2 teams, not just Finland.

 

If Denmark beat Russia by anything other than 1-0, Denmark would top the H2H league and finish 2nd.

 

This is because Denmark and Russia would finish ahead of Finland on the H2H league on Goals Scored so it then goes down to Denmark vs Russia H2H which Denmark have obviously just won.

 

If Denmark win 1-0 then the H2H league is entirely even with all 3 teams having won 1 and lost 1 1-0.

 

In which case it then goes down to the group standings including Belgium, which Denmark again would very likely top. They would definitely beat Russia on GD if they beat them and very likely beat Finland on either GD (if they lose by more than 1 goal to Belgium) or Goals Scored (if they lose 1-0 to Belgium).

 

Finland would have to score twice and only lose by 1 (so 2-3, 3-4, 4-5 etc.) to finish ahead of Denmark if Denmark only win 1-0. And I can't see Finland scoring twice vs Belgium.

 

If Denmark win 1-0 and Finland lose 1-2 to Belgium so Denmark and Finland are level in pts, GD and GS both the H2H league including Russia and the final group standings including both Russia and Belgium, then it comes down to their disciplinary record in which Denmark currently are winning with 3 yellow cards vs Finland's 4.

 

It doesn't go back to Denmark vs Finland H2H again once the original H2H between Denmark Finland and Russia has been looked at.

 

So it is technically possible Finland could still finish 2nd with a loss, but it's very unlikely and in practice you'd expect a Denmark win to very likely be enough for them to finish 2nd.

Oh right. It’s all very confusing! Cheers. 

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Yeah it'll go to a three way head to head won't it. The likely results are Belgium beat Finland and Denmark beat Russia which creates this scenario. If Denmark won by any scoreline other than 1-0 they would finish 2nd.

 

If they win 1-0 it'll just end up going to goal difference won't it, which will put Russia 4th, unless Belgium thump Finland - which they definitely could but I feel like Belgium will rest a few and Finland will do everything to stop it being a hammering. Can see 2-0 to Belgium.

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4 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'd say they're all flip of a coin games in the context of tournament football. 

 

All four of us are on enough of a par that it'd just likely come down to who was in the best form on the day. 

 

I'd say if Bale and Ramsey played like they did against Turkey then we've got more "match winners" than any of those other sides, that's probably the only thing that stands us apart. 

We will be a much better team with Kieffer Moore upfront. His absence for most of last night's game allowed Italy to come forward from their back line and they overran Morrell and Allen in midfield. Once Moore came on, despite Ampadu being off, we looked much more balanced although admittedly Italy seemed to think they'd won it by then. Had Bale scored, their response would have been interesting. 

 

We needed Moore for the next round and we'll be much better for it whoever we play come Saturday. 

Edited by Cadno'r Cymoedd
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1 hour ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

We will be a much better team with Kieffer Moore upfront. His absence for most of last night's game allowed Italy to come forward from their back line and they overran Morrell and Allen in midfield. Once Moore came on, despite Ampadu being off, we looked much more balanced although admittedly Italy seemed to think they'd won it by then. Had Bale scored, their response would have been interesting. 

 

We needed Moore for the next round and we'll be much better for it whoever we play come Saturday. 

 

Yeah I think Page fell in to the trap a lot of managers do and that's over compensating for an opponent. 

 

I'm not entirely convinced we needed to swap to 352 with a makeshift "fast" front two. 

 

As Rodgers has found out a few times this season, more defenders =/= a better defence. We were probably more secure with a better out ball and a more balanced team round the park. 

 

I'm pretty confident whichever of those teams we get in the next round, he'll go back 4231 with Moore up top. 

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4 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Yeah it'll go to a three way head to head won't it. The likely results are Belgium beat Finland and Denmark beat Russia which creates this scenario. If Denmark won by any scoreline other than 1-0 they would finish 2nd.

 

If they win 1-0 it'll just end up going to goal difference won't it, which will put Russia 4th, unless Belgium thump Finland - which they definitely could but I feel like Belgium will rest a few and Finland will do everything to stop it being a hammering. Can see 2-0 to Belgium.

The problem is Finland can't do everything stop the hammering.

 

If Finland lose 1-0 they won't make the top 2, regardless of the result in the other game, either to Russia on points if they win or a draw or to Denmark on Goals Scored even if Denmark only win 1-0.

 

And the chances of them getting through as a best placed 3rd teams with 3pts and a negative goal difference is now very slim after Switzerland's results last night. They'd need 4 or 5 separate results to go their way - one of which will be the Austria vs Ukraine game they'll already know the result of and will need one of the sides to win by at least 2 goals - but given Austria and Ukraine both qualify if they draw and both risk going out if they win, I think they'll stitch-up the draw if they have any sense about them.

 

So really, if Belgium score then Finland also need to score and have to try and go for it at some stage.

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3 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

What did people think of Ünder by the way? I’ve tended to watch highlights matches only, but to me he looked like one of their more exciting players on the ball, but similar lack of end product to his time at Leicester.

Yes, full of quick bursts and direct play. Much like Grealish does for Villa but sadly not the same end product.

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On 21/06/2021 at 22:07, StanSP said:

Yes, full of quick bursts and direct play. Much like Grealish does for Villa but sadly not the same end product.

need a lot of shooting and finishing in training. He should be leaning to right side when he kicks strong from distance . He comes fast and pace , kick strong but he is not leaning enough to right side. .and kick ball over the bar

 

 

Edited by Gazi Giray
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