Tin Foil Hat Conspiracy Thread

[SecretPro]

16 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Absolutely nothing; there are huge numbers of drone users who like to purposely get a rise out of people because most don't know the rules. 

 

I'd wager the vast majority are just your usual hobbyists  / wind-up merchants out flying to get a reaction. 

Don't be ridiculous.

 

It's pretty obvious by now that it's Elons paymasters in original lizard form trying to find him and take him home to Planet Arzog to prepare for Operation D and the displacement of the World Order.

[Samilktray]

Just now, SecretPro said:

Don't be ridiculous.

 

It's pretty obvious by now that it's Elons paymasters in original lizard form trying to find him and take him home to Planet Arzog to prepare for Operation D and the displacement of the World Order.

Thank you, finally some sense 

[SecretPro]

Just now, Samilktray said:

Thank you, finally some sense 

Pretty sure Elon knows they are coming and has so far managed to hide himself behind the reflective shield of Nigel Farages Orange skin.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Absolutely nothing; there are huge numbers of drone users who like to purposely get a rise out of people because most don't know the rules. 

 

I'd wager the vast majority are just your usual hobbyists  / wind-up merchants out flying to get a reaction. 

Then why don’t the officials just say as much and put it all to bed? The interviews I’ve seen with the people in charge of these things are very ambiguous and don’t want to commit to what is going on, if it was as simple as that wouldn’t they just say as much?

[Trumpet]

12:20 - someone asking the right questions…

 

The Pentagon has said the sightings include hobbyist drones, commercial drones and fixed wing aircraft, among a few others. But that’s not definitive. They’re very careful in what they say, knowing the majority will consume the info as definitive. As an example, the Leicester City squad includes Vardy, Vestergaard and Winks.

Edited 18 December 2024 by Trumpet

[Babylon]

5 hours ago, Trumpet said:

Airspace over Wright-Patterson AFB was reportedly shut down for an hour or so earlier in the week due to an incursion. I’m surprised a hobbyist drone can get anywhere near it, let alone over it to temporarily shut down its airspace. 

This has been said before I believe, they aren’t allowed to just shoot them down from what I remember reading. They have to pass a certain criteria before action can be taken.

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Then why don’t the officials just say as much and put it all to bed? The interviews I’ve seen with the people in charge of these things are very ambiguous and don’t want to commit to what is going on, if it was as simple as that wouldn’t they just say as much?

They have said as much. They can’t get overly specific as one man’s hobbyist is another man’s spy. You can’t prove it definitively without catching them red handed. 

[blabyboy]

I thought this might interest peeps if they have 15 mins..

Gives some red meat to both sides, has some qualified experts and explains a lot of the NJ sightings. It also contains seagulls

 

Note: they do not address all the other sightings, but do present some good options for the NJ flap.

 

 

[jgtuk]

Not sure how influencers can be dealt with when the results of their misinformation are so widespread. Everything from climate change to health issues seem to be fair game and normalised by social media. 
 

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/30/tiktok-online-influencers-medical-misinformation?amp_js_v=0.1&amp_gsa=1#webview=1&cap=swipe

[SpacedX]

On 01/01/2025 at 16:58, jgtuk said:

Not sure how influencers can be dealt with when the results of their misinformation are so widespread. Everything from climate change to health issues seem to be fair game and normalised by social media. 
 

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/30/tiktok-online-influencers-medical-misinformation?amp_js_v=0.1&amp_gsa=1#webview=1&cap=swipe

Bart Sibrel is back doing the rounds flogging the same old conspiratorial horseshit about the Apollo moon landings. Through the Joe Rogan Show and recently Cadance Owens' podcast he has gained a huge new audience for his deception that lack the capability and the will to independently verify and substantiate the veracity of his fallacious claims for themselves. Lacking any knowledge of the subject whatsoever they are then made to feel 'special' and privileged becoming overnight armchair/pub stool authorities regurgitating, distorting and inflating his lies in a grotesque online version of Chinese whispers. Where some may argue that moon landing denial is innocuous and not in the slightest bit dangerous it does nonetheless demonstrate the ease of dissemination of click bait disinformation, the process behind this and lays the gullible and suggestable wide open and susceptible to more insidious disinformation based upon an irrational distrust of anything that they deem to be an 'official narrative'. This also breeds anti-science and where this impinges on health issues, is a threat to us all. 

Edited 3 January by SpacedX

[SecretPro]

Only on this thread because its less insane than Gen News.

[blabyboy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3nx1kd9q1o

So..Drones....not a threat but we're not saying whose they were. Back to your positions.

[SpacedX]

4 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3nx1kd9q1o

So..Drones....not a threat but we're not saying whose they were. Back to your positions.

Surely not? You don't say? And there was me all along thinking that it was an advanced scouting party from the 10th Plejaren Battlefleet under the direction of General Azlok commander of the 2nd Galactic Quadrant returning to mutilate cattle and abduct rednecks from trailer parks in Arkansas. 

[Amin]

On 03/01/2025 at 13:45, SpacedX said:

Bart Sibrel is back doing the rounds flogging the same old conspiratorial horseshit about the Apollo moon landings. Through the Joe Rogan Show and recently Cadance Owens' podcast he has gained a huge new audience for his deception that lack the capability and the will to independently verify and substantiate the veracity of his fallacious claims for themselves. Lacking any knowledge of the subject whatsoever they are then made to feel 'special' and privileged becoming overnight armchair/pub stool authorities regurgitating, distorting and inflating his lies in a grotesque online version of Chinese whispers. Where some may argue that moon landing denial is innocuous and not in the slightest bit dangerous it does nonetheless demonstrate the ease of dissemination of click bait disinformation, the process behind this and lays the gullible and suggestable wide open and susceptible to more insidious disinformation based upon an irrational distrust of anything that they deem to be an 'official narrative'. This also breeds anti-science and where this impinges on health issues, is a threat to us all. 

That's why I no longer find conspiracy theories fun. The people who believe in them are the same people who have facilitated the rise of the far right over the past 10-15 years.

[splinterdream]

On 03/01/2025 at 13:45, SpacedX said:

Bart Sibrel is back doing the rounds flogging the same old conspiratorial horseshit about the Apollo moon landings. Through the Joe Rogan Show and recently Cadance Owens' podcast he has gained a huge new audience for his deception that lack the capability and the will to independently verify and substantiate the veracity of his fallacious claims for themselves. Lacking any knowledge of the subject whatsoever they are then made to feel 'special' and privileged becoming overnight armchair/pub stool authorities regurgitating, distorting and inflating his lies in a grotesque online version of Chinese whispers. Where some may argue that moon landing denial is innocuous and not in the slightest bit dangerous it does nonetheless demonstrate the ease of dissemination of click bait disinformation, the process behind this and lays the gullible and suggestable wide open and susceptible to more insidious disinformation based upon an irrational distrust of anything that they deem to be an 'official narrative'. This also breeds anti-science and where this impinges on health issues, is a threat to us all. 

I'm.glad my suspicious nature led me to not take the Covid jab. As for.the moon landings, it is slightly odd we've never done it again, and then there's the whole issue of getting the that radiation belt, not that I care either way. 

'Conspiracy theories' are based on the premise that govts are secretively doing something that isn't in the interests, but actually harms the population they are elected to protect, and a proportion of the population suspects what is going on, but hasn't that been proven to happen on many occasions? 

[splinterdream]

7 hours ago, Amin said:

That's why I no longer find conspiracy theories fun. The people who believe in them are the same people who have facilitated the rise of the far right over the past 10-15 years.

Strange that, because i don't see any rise of the far right. Over the past 10-15 years I've seen a rise of the far left, but if you're of that side, I guess you'd see any support for reform/Trump ect as far right. This is not to say that most are far right or far left, there's just been divide with pretty much everything. I hate the right left label because I think most people have a mixture of left and right wing views, but are generally labelled right wing by those to the extreme left. I think the public have every right and reason to be suspicious of authority.

[blabyboy]

Apollo happened. The Chinese and Indian Space organisations have even taken photos of the landing sites, and you can see the rover, the flag and footprints.. Those two countries have no vested interests in propagating the US version of events, yet they produce evidence that supports the historical record.

 

No one went back for ages because it was not economically viable to do so... It is becoming so now, hence the revived interest.

 

The Van Allen belts protect us from massive doses of radiation during solar storms, but plenty of radiation still gets through...hence the nice suntan, solar energy etc..

 

Being in space is not so bad for radiation even outside the belts. All Apollo 11 astronauts have lived long lives with Aldrin still going. As long you have some shielding if a Solar storm rises then you can be well protected...stored water can be a great barrier without needing inches of lead... As ever it depends upon the type of radiation coming at you.

Edited 29 January by blabyboy

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, splinterdream said:

I'm.glad my suspicious nature led me to not take the Covid jab.

Scepticism is fine. Having it extend as far as contributing to a public health crisis...I'm not sure about that.

 

7 hours ago, splinterdream said:

As for.the moon landings, it is slightly odd we've never done it again, and then there's the whole issue of getting the that radiation belt, not that I care either way. 

 

Yeah, the post above covers this pretty explicitly. Also, the USSR had no reason not to blow the whistle on it when it happened, if it didn't.

 

7 hours ago, splinterdream said:

Strange that, because i don't see any rise of the far right. Over the past 10-15 years I've seen a rise of the far left, but if you're of that side, I guess you'd see any support for reform/Trump ect as far right. This is not to say that most are far right or far left, there's just been divide with pretty much everything. I hate the right left label because I think most people have a mixture of left and right wing views, but are generally labelled right wing by those to the extreme left. I think the public have every right and reason to be suspicious of authority.

If the current US administration attitude towards LGBT people, women and some minority groups isn't far right, I wouldn't mind getting a descriptor of what far right is, then. 1940's Germany (as opposed to 1930's Germany)?

Edited 30 January by leicsmac

[SpacedX]

7 hours ago, splinterdream said:

I'm.glad my suspicious nature led me to not take the Covid jab.

Why?

 

7 hours ago, splinterdream said:

As for.the moon landings, it is slightly odd we've never done it again

Not in the slightest. The USA stopped going to the moon because in the midst of an expensive foreign war, growing public apathy and disquiet, a lack of political will and the looming OPEC crisis, Congress prematurely withdrew the funding in 1972. They saw little benefit in continuing to plough in what had been at its peak, 4% of the annual federal budget into continuation of something that had already been achieved. The Apollo Programme was cancelled meaning that the manufacturing plants, the processes, the bespoke tooling, the expertise was either retired or moved on, whilst production of the heavy lift capability ceased and no one build a replacement for the Saturn V after the production cycle had not been renewed in 1970. Powerful lobbying for the folly of the Space Shuttle Programme shifted the emphasis upon low Earth orbit and the subsequent construction of the ISS meant that space exploration became the preserve of much cheaper unmanned probes and landers that did not require a heavy lift rocket. The old technology of Apollo has become obsolete and defunct. Project Artemis was not approved until as recently as 2018. Meanwhile the Soviet moon landing programme stuttered from the off and was doomed from the onset due to a budget a fraction that of Apollo, the consistent failure of the N1 rocket and arguably, the untimely death of Sergei Korolev. India and China have lagged behind the US and Russia for decades - China directing resources into the construction of Tiangong, whilst in terms of going to the moon, both nations have pursued the cheaper option of impacts, together with unmanned probes and landers.

 

7 hours ago, splinterdream said:

and then there's the whole issue of getting the that radiation belt, not that I care either way. 

 

Then why comment? I'm genuinely interested in why you would make a statement based upon what conspiracy theorists have told you to think about a subject you clearly have zero knowledge of whatsoever? Therein lies everything that's wrong with belief in conspiracy theories.You encapsulate it in a sentence. 

 

Firstly, they are belts, in the plural, due to the fact that there are two, plus a third that is transitory. Secondly, if you have integrity and humility, I'd like you to genuinely ask yourself the following questions:

 

1/ How much do I genuinely know about the Van Allen Belts? - their shape extent and distribution? Energies and intensity? Type of radiation?  

2/ What do I actually understand by alpha and beta particle radiation and shielding against it?

3/ What have I understood about the actual structure of the Command Module and the materials that it was fashioned from? 

4/ What have I learnt about the trajectories flown by each of the Apollo missions and their passage through the belts? 

5/ What do I know about what James Van Allen himself, (and his soviet counterpart Sergei Vernov) had to say about the belts and the Apollo missions? 

6/ Why do I think that I know better than them? 

7/ Compared to the 68 minute transit of the Apollo missions, how long did last year's Polaris Dawn mission spend in the more dangerous inner belt and how long was the hatch open for?

8/ What have I done to challenge my preconceptions and the claims made by online conspiracy theorists in relation to the VABs? 

 

If the answer to these questions is nothing or "I don't know" then you have one additional question to ask of yourself - why did I feel the need to comment in the first place?

 

7 hours ago, splinterdream said:

'Conspiracy theories' are based on the premise that govts are secretively doing something that isn't in the interests, but actually harms the population they are elected to protect, and a proportion of the population suspects what is going on, but hasn't that been proven to happen on many occasions? 

Of course governments lie, deceive and conspire. No one in their right mind would suggest otherwise. But simply because they do that does not then logically follow that claims of faked moon landings or any random conspiracy theory of one's arbitrary choosing, devising or consequence of personal bias/agenda should automatically be assumed to be true. A lazy syllogistic logical fallacy. 

 

And meanwhile the online conspiracy theory that you refer to is entirely and unfailingly honest, unwaveringly accurate and consistent, not in the least bit intentionally deceptive, misleading, fallacious, exploitative, opportunistic monetised or manipulative and with your best interests at heart is completely free of vested interest and agenda? Are you sure about that?

 

You say you have a "suspicious nature". It never ceased to amuse me how conspiracy believers suspend this claimed scepticism when it comes to accommodating the outright lies and deception that are the stock in trade of con artists such as Bart Sibrel. These people harvest gullibility, ignorance and personal incredulity for their own personal gain. Surely you don't wish to place yourself in that target market? 

[splinterdream]

10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Scepticism is fine. Having it extend as far as contributing to a public health crisis...I'm not sure about that.

 

Yeah, the post above covers this pretty explicitly. Also, the USSR had no reason not to blow the whistle on it when it happened, if it didn't.

 

If the current US administration attitude towards LGBT people, women and some minority groups isn't far right, I wouldn't mind getting a descriptor of what far right is, then. 1940's Germany (as opposed to 1930's Germany)?

Not having the covid jab, did not contribute to the health crisis, it didn't stop.you from getting it, or spreading it, even though govts and medical professionals lied saying it did.

I'm not sure what specifics you're referring to with LGBT and women, whether it's the gender critical theory in schools and the pushback against that, and the abortion laws in various states, going back to my previous post, the politics of the left pushing things like the right to full term abortion, and inappropriate content in schools that parents don't agree with, and limitless immigration  that will have people voting for the opposite of a senile candidate, or candidate that was clearly out of her depth.

Moon landings I just don't know enough about, but the footage was fake and filmed by Kubrick I think it's widely known. Joe Rogan did do an interview a year or so ago with the guy I believes it's fake and did give it a really hard time.

[splinterdream]

14 minutes ago, SpacedX said:

Why?

 

Not in the slightest. The USA stopped going to the moon because in the midst of an expensive foreign war, growing public apathy and disquiet, a lack of political will and the looming OPEC crisis, Congress prematurely withdrew the funding in 1972. They saw little benefit in continuing to plough in what had been at its peak, 4% of the annual federal budget into continuation of something that had already been achieved. The Apollo Programme was cancelled meaning that the manufacturing plants, the processes, the bespoke tooling, the expertise was either retired or moved on, whilst production of the heavy lift capability ceased and no one build a replacement for the Saturn V after the production cycle had not been renewed in 1970. Powerful lobbying for the folly of the Space Shuttle Programme shifted the emphasis upon low Earth orbit and the subsequent construction of the ISS meant that space exploration became the preserve of much cheaper unmanned probes and landers that did not require a heavy lift rocket. The old technology of Apollo has become obsolete and defunct. Project Artemis was not approved until as recently as 2018. Meanwhile the Soviet moon landing programme stuttered from the off and was doomed from the onset due to a budget a fraction that of Apollo, the consistent failure of the N1 rocket and arguably, the untimely death of Sergei Korolev. India and China have lagged behind the US and Russia for decades - China directing resources into the construction of Tiangong, whilst in terms of going to the moon, both nations have pursued the cheaper option of impacts, together with unmanned probes and landers.

 

Then why comment? I'm genuinely interested in why you would make a statement based upon what conspiracy theorists have told you to think about a subject you clearly have zero knowledge of whatsoever? Therein lies everything that's wrong with belief in conspiracy theories.You encapsulate it in a sentence. 

 

Firstly, they are belts, in the plural, due to the fact that there are two, plus a third that is transitory. Secondly, if you have integrity and humility, I'd like you to genuinely ask yourself the following questions:

 

1/ How much do I genuinely know about the Van Allen Belts? - their shape extent and distribution? Energies and intensity? Type of radiation?  

2/ What do I actually understand by alpha and beta particle radiation and shielding against it?

3/ What have I understood about the actual structure of the Command Module and the materials that it was fashioned from? 

4/ What have I learnt about the trajectories flown by each of the Apollo missions and their passage through the belts? 

5/ What do I know about what James Van Allen himself, (and his soviet counterpart Sergei Vernov) had to say about the belts and the Apollo missions? 

6/ Why do I think that I know better than them? 

7/ Compared to the 68 minute transit of the Apollo missions, how long did last year's Polaris Dawn mission spend in the more dangerous inner belt and how long was the hatch open for?

8/ What have I done to challenge my preconceptions and the claims made by online conspiracy theorists in relation to the VABs? 

 

If the answer to these questions is nothing or "I don't know" then you have one additional question to ask of yourself - why did I feel the need to comment in the first place?

 

Of course governments lie, deceive and conspire. No one in their right mind would suggest otherwise. But simply because they do that does not then logically follow that claims of faked moon landings or any random conspiracy theory of one's arbitrary choosing, devising or consequence of personal bias/agenda should automatically be assumed to be true. A lazy syllogistic logical fallacy. 

 

And meanwhile the online conspiracy theory that you refer to is entirely and unfailingly honest, unwaveringly accurate and consistent, not in the least bit intentionally deceptive, misleading, fallacious, exploitative, opportunistic monetised or manipulative and with your best interests at heart is completely free of vested interest and agenda? Are you sure about that?

 

You say you have a "suspicious nature". It never ceased to amuse me how conspiracy believers suspend this claimed scepticism when it comes to accommodating the outright lies and deception that are the stock in trade of con artists such as Bart Sibrel. These people harvest gullibility, ignorance and personal incredulity for their own personal gain. Surely you don't wish to place yourself in that target market? 

I commented not really to do with the moon landings, but because of the statement that those with a suspicious nature to the things we see in the news, or current affairs of the past or future (conspiracy theorists) contribute to a rise of the far right, which i think is a conspiracy theory in itself.

If I believed anything without doubt, I would say, if i had doubt I would say also, nothing wrong with discussing that. I haven't looked enough into the various arguments for or against the moon landings conspiracy, but I am pleased I didn't get the covod jab, because the evidence showed it did cause harm to people that didn't need it in the first place.

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, splinterdream said:

Moon landings I just don't know enough about, 

Says that...then this - 

 

1 minute ago, splinterdream said:

but the footage was fake and filmed by Kubrick I think it's widely known. 

Because social media said so? Continuous footage of 1/6th gravity and a vacuum would have been a technical impossibility whilst Kubrick would never have filmed in slow scan (ten frames a second). Stanley Kubrick was not responsible for the special effects in his films and if you have watched 2001: A Space Odyssey for which Douglas Trumbull did a wonderful job, the limitations are nonetheless immediately obvious. Allied to the fact that if you knew anything about Kubrick himself, the you'd understand that the stubborn nature of the man would have prevented him from compromising his entire career as a filmmaker in addition to his artistic integrity. That and the fact that his projects and whereabouts are fully accountable during the entire Apollo Programme. The closest that Stanley Kubrick ever got to NASA was for the making of 'Barry Lyndon' in which he had scoured trade journals on optics to find a lens that could capture interior night scenes lit by only candlelight. He read about that Planar 50mm f/0.7 that was designed for NASA to capture the far side of the moon and purchased 3 of them from Carl Zeiss. There was no contact between Kubrick and NASA involved in the acquisition of the lenses.

 

This has to be one of the most staggering stupid, ludicrous conspiratorial claims on the entire internet - and astonishingly, in spite of your claimed suspicion, you have evidently allowed yourself to be completely hoodwinked by it. 

 

 

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

Not having the covid jab, did not contribute to the health crisis, it didn't stop.you from getting it, or spreading it, even though govts and medical professionals lied saying it did.

 

Assuming that's true for a moment (and it's far from the case), the Covid vaccine is hardly the only one being discussed.

 

13 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

 

I'm not sure what specifics you're referring to with LGBT and women, whether it's the gender critical theory in schools and the pushback against that, and the abortion laws in various states, going back to my previous post, the politics of the left pushing things like the right to full term abortion, and inappropriate content in schools that parents don't agree with, and limitless immigration  that will have people voting for the opposite of a senile candidate, or candidate that was clearly out of her depth.

 

The specifics are the targeting of Roe v Wade and Obergefell v Hodges, thus denying women the right to bodily autonomy and LGBT people equal rights to marry. This is already underway.

 

Again, if that's not considered towards the extreme end of the political spectrum, I would very much like to know what is.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, SpacedX said:

Says that...then this - 

 

Because social media said so? Continuous footage of 1/6th gravity and a vacuum would have been a technical impossibility whilst Kubrick would never have filmed in slow scan (ten frames a second). Stanley Kubrick was not responsible for the special effects in his films and if you have watched 2001: A Space Odyssey for which Douglas Trumbull did a wonderful job, the limitations are nonetheless immediately obvious. Allied to the fact that if you knew anything about Kubrick himself, the you'd understand that the stubborn nature of the man would have prevented him from compromising his entire career as a filmmaker in addition to his artistic integrity. That and the fact that his projects and whereabouts are fully accountable during the entire Apollo Programme. The closest that Stanley Kubrick ever got to NASA was for the making of 'Barry Lyndon' in which he had scoured trade journals on optics to find a lens that could capture interior night scenes lit by only candlelight. He read about that Planar 50mm f/0.7 that was designed for NASA to capture the far side of the moon and purchased 3 of them from Carl Zeiss. There was no contact between Kubrick and NASA involved in the acquisition of the lenses.

 

This has to be one of the most staggering stupid, ludicrous conspiratorial claims on the entire internet - and astonishingly, in spite of your claimed suspicion, you have evidently allowed yourself to be completely hoodwinked by it. 

 

 

You're a great guy, Spacey, but I would advise to wind your neck in just a little bit, mate. Let's keep it civil.

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

I commented not really to do with the moon landings, but because of the statement that those with a suspicious nature to the things we see in the news, or current affairs of the past or future (conspiracy theorists) contribute to a rise of the far right, which i think is a conspiracy theory in itself.

Yet you felt the need to pass comment on the Van Allen Radiation belts of which you clearly have no knowledge of whatsoever. 

 

3 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

 

If I believed anything without doubt, I would say, if i had doubt I would say also, nothing wrong with discussing that. I haven't looked enough into the various arguments for or against the moon landings conspiracy, 

And yet astonishingly you just claimed this...

 

18 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

but the footage was fake and filmed by Kubrick I think it's widely known. 

 

5 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

but I am pleased I didn't get the covod jab, because the evidence showed it did cause harm to people that didn't need it in the first place.

Covid vaccinations prevented 14·4 million 95% credible interval deaths from COVID-19 in 185 countries and territories between Dec 8, 2020, and Dec 8 2021. Of these, 0.053% had an adverse reaction. In the EU alone, those that suffered a fatal reaction to vaccination represents 0.52% of the 2,169,191that died of coronavirus.

 

Death has occurred at a rate of approximately 5 cases per one million vaccine doses administered. This includes cases of anaphylaxis, a severe type of allergic reaction that can occur after any kind of vaccination. To put this into perspective, there are 25 deaths per million in road accidents per year in the UK. Presumably, you don't drive or allow yourself to be driven?