The UK Migrant Crisis

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Otis said:

It's OK to say if you don't have a solution, it's a difficult and sensitive situation.

I don't have a solution. Partially because I don't view the situation as you do, partially because I know that some of the issue has been deliberately and cynically created by people who wish to exploit people's worst fears. You might, quite reasonably, refuse to believe that this government could sink so low as to use human beings so terribly as to create (effectively) a humanitarian problem - however, I have no problem, given their track record, believing that this is precisely what is being done.

[Voll Blau]

44 minutes ago, Otis said:

Although turning everyone back isn't the right thing to do. It would actually solve the people trafficking problem. 

No one is going to pay 5k for a seat on a rubber dinghy if they know they'll be returned the same day.

You're talking about some of the most desperate people in the world. They know that being sent back is a risk if they get on a boat right now - let alone that they're risking actual death. It's naive to think criminal gangs won't still try and exploit these people even if you implement the idea you're suggesting.

 

As you quite rightly say though, it's not the right thing to do.

[Otis]

26 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I don't have a solution. Partially because I don't view the situation as you do, partially because I know that some of the issue has been deliberately and cynically created by people who wish to exploit people's worst fears. You might, quite reasonably, refuse to believe that this government could sink so low as to use human beings so terribly as to create (effectively) a humanitarian problem - however, I have no problem, given their track record, believing that this is precisely what is being done.

If that was true, what would be the end benefit?

The Tories are far from blameless in the handling of this but they aren't forcing people on boats in France. 

[Otis]

15 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

You're talking about some of the most desperate people in the world. They know that being sent back is a risk if they get on a boat right now - let alone that they're risking actual death. It's naive to think criminal gangs won't still try and exploit these people even if you implement the idea you're suggesting.

 

As you quite rightly say though, it's not the right thing to do.

So how do you stop the gangs?

[Otis]

9 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

The refugees we took in weren't previously processed by the Spanish government.  At the height of the refugee crisis towns all over Spain were self funding buses to go to the Ukrainian border to collect refugees and bringing them back to our towns. Lorry drivers worked their time off driving coaches to collect them, we had coach companies who gave up their vehicles, charity shops gave up their stock, the response was incredible. The official processing came later. 

 

They didn't just turn up at my door, they were invited.

Ok, this is a different situation to the migrant crisis in the UK then.

[HighPeakFox]

12 minutes ago, Otis said:

If that was true, what would be the end benefit?

The Tories are far from blameless in the handling of this but they aren't forcing people on boats in France. 

I have to teach, so won't be able to continue beyond this entry. 

 

The answer is that to you, me and the migrants, there would be no end benefit. 

 

It is my belief that their sole aim is to stoke fear, ignorance and hatred of the other, and that it will benefit them at the ballot box by way of the frightened, the ignorant and the racists. 

[Otis]

53 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I believe that some practical solutions involving "legal" immigration routes have been discussed upstream in this very thread.

 

NB. If people think this is a crisis right now, just wait until around a billion people in equatorial regions don't have enough food or potable water because their regions are simply too hot year round to sustain them. That's on its way.

Yes. A processing centre in France is one idea if the French would approve it.

 

 

[Finnegan]

There isn't a migrant crisis*, the current government just don't want you talking about how shit they are.

 

 

(*I'm not suggesting there isn't an issue but 'MIGRANT CRISIS' is a flashy, nicely divisive headline, 'moderately small amount of people trying to boat in to country' isn't.)

[yorkie1999]

We've always had migrants and asylum seekers in the UK but the problem is we're no longer capable of processing them due to government cuts and red tape.

[Finnegan]

14 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

We've always had migrants and asylum seekers in the UK but the problem is we're no longer capable of processing them due to government cuts and red tape.

 

Yes but what you just did is make it sound like it's the government's fault. This is bad.

 

MIGRANT CRISIS makes it sound like the fault of the strange dirty people with funny names. That's good.

[Alf Bentley]

November 2021:

 

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20211129-french-minister-urges-uk-to-open-legal-migration-route-amid-channel-crisis

 

French Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin urged Britain on Monday to open a legal route for asylum seekers in order to prevent people risking their lives by taking small boats across the Channel to England. "Great Britain needs to open up a legal immigration route" because "at the moment anyone who wants to ask for asylum has no other choice but to cross the Channel," Darmanin said in an interview with the RMC/BFM media group. French officials have already suggested that British immigration officials process asylum requests in northern France from migrants camped out around the major ports on France's coast."

 

Edited 16 June 2023 by Alf Bentley

[grobyfox1990]

58 minutes ago, Otis said:

If that was true, what would be the end benefit?

The Tories are far from blameless in the handling of this but they aren't forcing people on boats in France. 

The country is literally at the point of ruin, it's easier to blame 'the boat people' then years of incompetent and inept handling. The end game is re-election as the blame of systemic lowering of standards across our land is blamed on migrants, not those in charge. If anyone wants to see what years of mis-management does to a place, go to Athens, it is like the centre of hell. Horrible horrible place.

[Otis]

4 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

November 2021:

 

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20211129-french-minister-urges-uk-to-open-legal-migration-route-amid-channel-crisis

 

French Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin urged Britain on Monday to open a legal route for asylum seekers in order to prevent people risking their lives by taking small boats across the Channel to England. "Great Britain needs to open up a legal immigration route" because "at the moment anyone who wants to ask for asylum has no other choice but to cross the Channel," Darmanin said in an interview with the RMC/BFM media group. French officials have already suggested that British immigration officials process asylum requests in northern France from migrants camped out around the major ports on France's coast."

 

This isn't true though. There a plenty of cheap flights into the UK without having to risk your life on a small boat.

[FoxesDeb]

36 minutes ago, Otis said:

Ok, this is a different situation to the migrant crisis in the UK then.

This conversation started on a different thread though, when you asked if people would take random strangers in to their house, and I said yes, I did. You claimed that all the Ukrainian refugees had documentation so we knew who they were, so I've shown they didn't. We weren't initially discussing the 'migrant crisis' in the UK, rather migrants in general, but the conversation is better placed in this thread.

 

The situation really only differs in that the Ukrainian refugees didn't arrive on boats, but instead were collected by people who wanted to assist them. 

 

 

 

 

[FoxesDeb]

2 minutes ago, Otis said:

This isn't true though. There a plenty of cheap flights into the UK without having to risk your life on a small boat.

Proper signature material this is

 

[ozleicester]

[Otis]

2 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

This conversation started on a different thread though, when you asked if people would take random strangers in to their house, and I said yes, I did. You claimed that all the Ukrainian refugees had documentation so we knew who they were, so I've shown they didn't. We weren't initially discussing the 'migrant crisis' in the UK, rather migrants in general, but the conversation is better placed in this thread.

 

The situation really only differs in that the Ukrainian refugees didn't arrive on boats, but instead were collected by people who wanted to assist them. 

 

 

 

 

Actually it started when you asked why people turning up in this country shouldn't be treated with suspicion. Collecting people from a known country at war is very different from people arriving from unknown places asking for assistance. That's why there are legal routes for Ukrainian nationals.

[Otis]

4 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Proper signature material this is

 

True though isn't it.

[Alf Bentley]

8 minutes ago, Otis said:

This isn't true though. There a plenty of cheap flights into the UK without having to risk your life on a small boat.

 

I presume anyone seeking to board a cheap flight without an approved passport/visa would not be allowed to board. 

 

Do you not have to show your passport if you fly back to the UK?

 

If people from Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan, Albania or wherever ARE allowed to board planes to the UK without a passport, why do you think they choose to spend thousands risking their lives in small boats, rather than hopping on Easyjet or Ryanair for a few quid?

[Otis]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I presume anyone seeking to board a cheap flight without an approved passport/visa would not be allowed to board. 

 

Do you not have to show your passport if you fly back to the UK?

 

If people from Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan, Albania or wherever ARE allowed to board planes to the UK without a passport, why do you think they choose to spend thousands risking their lives in small boats, rather than hopping on Easyjet or Ryanair for a few quid?

Simple answer is to get a passport. 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, RobHawk said:

 

I'll be honest and say I don't know what labours policy is, they may not have released it yet as we are still a way of a general election. 

 

To put it simply, the Tory government have caused this crisis, they've been in power for over a decade and have only made things alot worse. So I'd give the other team a go without the need to see actual details. 

 

What highpeakfox said puts it well, but I would go further. But I won't for you, as clearly how disgusting this government is, is lost on you. 

 

Decent overview of Labour immigration and asylum policies here: https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/legal-updates/amid-the-furore-where-does-labour-stand/5115463.article

 

Some key bits:

 

- In this speech, the Labour leader identified migration as ‘part of our national story’ but said the British economy’s immigration dependency must end. He also said changes to the points-based immigration system would require new conditions for British businesses, such as improved pay, investment in technology and a greater emphasis on training.

 

- In her 2022 Labour party conference speech, Yvette Cooper promised that the party would cancel the ‘deeply damaging, extortionately expensive, unworkable and unethical Rwanda plan’ and redirect funding towards a cross-border police unit to tackle criminal trafficking gangs.

 

- In response to the Illegal Migration Bill, the Labour party outlined its plan to stop small boat crossings including:

• cracking down on smuggler gangs through the creation of a new cross-border police unit;
• clearing the asylum backlog and ending the use of hotel accommodation through the implementation of fast-track asylum processing and safe country returns;
• signing a new cooperation agreement with France and other partner countries on family reunions and returns;
• reforming safe and legal routes for refugees; and
• tackling humanitarian crises at source by helping refugees in their region.

[Voll Blau]

2 minutes ago, Otis said:

Simple answer is to get a passport. 

Yeah, piece of piss to do in a failed state or from tyrants who want you dead that you're desperately trying to escape from. 

[Alf Bentley]

2 minutes ago, Otis said:

Simple answer is to get a passport. 

 

A bit difficult if, for example, you're an Afghan opponent of the Taliban or you're in the middle of a civil war in Sudan or you're an opponent of Assad in bombed-to-fvck Syria. 

Admittedly easier for most Albanians (unless you're in a tiny minority suffering oppression there) - and I'd imagine that the vast majority of Albanians do not qualify for asylum.....there seems to have been some progress in slashing numbers coming from Albania, anyway.

[Itsthejoeker]

 

21 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Proper signature material this is

 

it’s giving, “if you don’t like being poor have you tried just not being poor” energy. 

[grobyfox1990]

Bloody hard enough to get a passport from the UK passport office which we fund with an extortionately high tax burden