Development/Youth Squads 2024/2025 Thread - U18/U21

[Chelmofox]

14 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

That's a lot of waffle to be honest. The job of the academy is to produce players to improve the first team. That's the be all and end all. It hasn't done that since Barnes/KDH whoever broke out second I can't remember.

 

That might be too black and white for you but it doesn't make it wrong.

Take issue with that statement as i don't believe that is the sole job of the academy, and the point when someone can improve the first team is always variable.
 

We should also be producing sellable assets. For sure, we should be aiming to produce superstars as well but when we are currently looking at 14-17 year old kids, we know that the route to get there doesn't happen overnight.  I'd love it if every year we chucked out another player that improved our starting 11, but the reality is is doesn't matter what facilities you have - that doesnt happen. As we saw with KDH, he was in his 20's before we could say he improved our squad. I would argue that Jakub improved our squad too, and offers an excellent option for us when Mads leaves.

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

18 minutes ago, bmt said:

Why is it? Because you decided?

What is the purpose of the academy if not to improve the first team then? 

[bmt]

Just now, Sol thewall Bamba said:

What is the purpose of the academy if not to improve the first team then? 

I'd argue provide saleable assets is equally as important, with the odd one making it into the first team. Even if you disagree they are equally as important, you can't say one is the "be all and end all" ignoring the amount of money a club can make from selling good young players (even if they don't meet first team level).

 

Does KDH even get in our current first team over Bilal btw? He certainly didn't when we was 21, does that mean the academy he came up through was pointless?

 

But anyway you have ignored the rest of my point. You said that unless Seagrave produces first team players (and implied it fails at that) it is a vanity project, but you've given it 4 years. That doesn't even make sense.

[coolhandfox]

14 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

That's a lot of waffle to be honest. The job of the academy is to produce players to improve the first team. That's the be all and end all. It hasn't done that since Barnes/KDH whoever broke out second I can't remember.

 

That might be too black and white for you but it doesn't make it wrong.

It really depends on the manager to blood them and trust them. Alves and Nelson could both improve the first team if they are given a chance.

 

We have the like if those two plus Evans and Monga, if they aren't given a chance how do we know? 

 

Heskey was 18 when he became a first-team regular and an established PL starter under O'Neill at 19. 

 

King was 19 or 20 when he became a  first-team regular under NP.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

18 minutes ago, bmt said:

I'd argue provide saleable assets is equally as important, with the odd one making it into the first team. Even if you disagree they are equally as important, you can't say one is the "be all and end all" ignoring the amount of money a club can make from selling good young players (even if they don't meet first team level).

 

Does KDH even get in our current first team over Bilal btw? He certainly didn't when we was 21, does that mean the academy he came up through was pointless?

 

But anyway you have ignored the rest of my point. You said that unless Seagrave produces first team players (and implied it fails at that) it is a vanity project, but you've given it 4 years. That doesn't even make sense.

Provide saleable assets and them playing in the first team is surely mutually exclusive if the profit you aspire to generate is vast. Bottom line is, we got £50m for Chilwell, £35-40m for Barnes and £30-35m for KDH and yet are on the precipice of the outer limits on PSR. 

 

We simply have to have academy development as one of, if not our single biggest priority. Seagrave was surely built for this purpose and we have spent many years working tirelessly behind the scenes building this ethos and we need to carry it through. It's why I respect European teams with a long track record of bringing through academy players and how they buy low and sell high over the juggernauts clubs. That's our only hope.

[deep blue]

Just now, UniFox21 said:

He wanted to play LB, he didn't want to play CB where the club thought he was best. Hence he didn't sign a contract. 

I'm aware of that. Do you not think it's a failing of the club that we didn't find a way to keep him happy and eventually get him to progress in his best position?  His current club managed to do that, but we didn't.

[Noahfence]

Just seen a quote from Ruud talking about Evans being used in the first team and he mentioned him having picked up an injury? 

[davieG]

12 minutes ago, Noahfence said:

Just seen a quote from Ruud talking about Evans being used in the first team and he mentioned him having picked up an injury? 

 

51 minutes ago, davieG said:

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ruud-van-nistelrooy-reveals-pick-9959717

 

Ruud van Nistelrooy reveals when he will pick Jake Evans for Leicester City first team
The 16-year-old is performing extremely well for the club's Under-21s, netting a hat-trick at Newcastle last Friday to become Premier League 2's leading goalscorer

ByJordan Blackwell
07:00, 20 FEB 2025

Sixteen-year-old Jake Evans has scored nine goals in 11 games in Premier League 2 this season (Image: Plumb Images/Leicester City FC via Getty Images)

Ruud van Nistelrooy has to be “careful” with 16-year-old Leicester City prospect Jake Evans but insists he will use him if he feels he can outshine the club’s first-team players.

Evans’ star is on the rise after a hat-trick for City’s Under-21s against Newcastle last Friday propelled him to the top of the Premier League 2 scorers’ chart.

He now has nine goals in 11 appearances in the division, with only Arsenal’s Ethan Nwaneri ever scoring more at the same age.

 

With City’s senior players having only scored four goals in their last 10 Premier League fixtures, there are growing calls for Evans to be given a chance.

That opportunity does not look like it will come this Friday night against Brentford, with van Nistelrooy revealing that Evans is now dealing with a “little injury”. But when he’s fit, he’s not being ruled out of contention based on his age.

“We have to be careful with our talents,” van Nistelrooy said. “Realistically, it’s very simple. When they’re ready and good enough and better than what we have, they’re going to have to play, because it’s the best for the football club.

“For Jake now, he’s adjusting to training with the first team, making very valuable minutes in the Under-21s. He’s picked up a little injury now so we need to look after him.

“Let’s hope he keeps developing and can train a lot more with us. But we have to also be careful. Little injuries like he has now, we have to assess him, we hope it’s not much. He’s a great prospect for the future and hopefully the near, near future.”

With the free-scoring 16-year-old not available, City’s regular first-team attackers must find their shooting boots this Friday to avoid the club setting an unwanted record.

They have lost five home league games in a row without scoring. No top-flight English club has ever done so six games in a row in the same season.

Van Nistelrooy said: “We have to look to be ruthless, but ruthless is in both boxes. So a clearance or a block in your own last third always has to be ruthless. A tackle there is vital, concede a penalty or not, whether you clear the ball off the line or not.

“So that's where the games get decided, in both boxes. It's not a button you can switch on for a game.

“I think you have to demand that in every training session. In every finishing drill, in every attack versus defence drill, score, score, score.

“For me it's a process that I'm in with the team. To keep improving we're trying to do that on a daily basis, trying to improve.”

 

[Noahfence]

10 minutes ago, davieG said:

 

 

Doubt he would’ve been involved anyway but that’s annoying 

[filbertway]

2 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

What is the purpose of the academy if not to improve the first team then? 

I'd argue it's 2 fold

 

- Provide talent for first team

- Provide regular income into club by being able to sell players on

 

With the current crop coming through we should hopefully start to see more of these. We got CAT 1 status in 2013 by the looks of it, so 12 years later now, we should really start seeing the fruits of that coming through on a yearly basis. Does that sound a fair way of looking at it @Kilworthfox?

 

For me, a fair target would be that we are producing 3+ Championship and above standard players a year (not necessarily, champ standard at 17/18 but players who can go on to be that level.

 

For a club with Cat 1 status for over a decade, that feels like a fair target and one that could generate significant income for the club, if not improvement for the squad

 

If we can build a reputation as one of the top clubs for young talent to develop and be given opportunities, either in our squad or out on loan then we're going to become more attractive to players and clubs who would like to develop our players.

[Kilworthfox]

6 hours ago, bmt said:

Why is it? Because you decided?

 

Anyway to your point, which was about Seagrave. There's a really good chance in the next few years we could have multiple we sell for fees and multiple that make it in our first team - in fact people are talking about a few of our under 18s as the best generation we have had - and Monga as an exceptional talent. It's only been there 4 years. How long does it take an academy player to come through?

Honestly at least 10 years. You'd have to be exceptional. Your currently seeing this.

 

Probably the more accurate expectation / projection is probably 12 to 14 years.

Edited 20 February by Kilworthfox

[Kilworthfox]

4 hours ago, deep blue said:

I'm aware of that. Do you not think it's a failing of the club that we didn't find a way to keep him happy and eventually get him to progress in his best position?  His current club managed to do that, but we didn't.

Are you suggesting the club should make statements they know to be false in order to retain an academy player?

[kenny]

5 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Provide saleable assets and them playing in the first team is surely mutually exclusive if the profit you aspire to generate is vast. Bottom line is, we got £50m for Chilwell, £35-40m for Barnes and £30-35m for KDH and yet are on the precipice of the outer limits on PSR. 

 

We simply have to have academy development as one of, if not our single biggest priority. Seagrave was surely built for this purpose and we have spent many years working tirelessly behind the scenes building this ethos and we need to carry it through. It's why I respect European teams with a long track record of bringing through academy players and how they buy low and sell high over the juggernauts clubs. That's our only hope.

The word is use is hype. The bigger clubs hype their youngsters up early on and give them first team minutes in televised games.

 

Even if they know they are getting sold it raises what clubs will pay no end. As a minimum it means better quality clubs take them on loan. Alves and braybrooke struggling to get a loan is ridiculous.

[indierich06]

3 hours ago, filbertway said:

I'd argue it's 2 fold

 

- Provide talent for first team

- Provide regular income into club by being able to sell players on

 

With the current crop coming through we should hopefully start to see more of these. We got CAT 1 status in 2013 by the looks of it, so 12 years later now, we should really start seeing the fruits of that coming through on a yearly basis. Does that sound a fair way of looking at it @Kilworthfox?

 

For me, a fair target would be that we are producing 3+ Championship and above standard players a year (not necessarily, champ standard at 17/18 but players who can go on to be that level.

 

For a club with Cat 1 status for over a decade, that feels like a fair target and one that could generate significant income for the club, if not improvement for the squad

 

If we can build a reputation as one of the top clubs for young talent to develop and be given opportunities, either in our squad or out on loan then we're going to become more attractive to players and clubs who would like to develop our players.

Yes this, Man City basically fund most of their purchases now by selling a few fringe players, and academy lads, it's mental. For them, it's fully part of their financial model.

[Kilworthfox]

2 hours ago, filbertway said:

I'd argue it's 2 fold

 

- Provide talent for first team

- Provide regular income into club by being able to sell players on

 

With the current crop coming through we should hopefully start to see more of these. We got CAT 1 status in 2013 by the looks of it, so 12 years later now, we should really start seeing the fruits of that coming through on a yearly basis. Does that sound a fair way of looking at it @Kilworthfox?

 

For me, a fair target would be that we are producing 3+ Championship and above standard players a year (not necessarily, champ standard at 17/18 but players who can go on to be that level.

 

For a club with Cat 1 status for over a decade, that feels like a fair target and one that could generate significant income for the club, if not improvement for the squad

 

If we can build a reputation as one of the top clubs for young talent to develop and be given opportunities, either in our squad or out on loan then we're going to become more attractive to players and clubs who would like to develop our players.

OK so there is a lot of vagueness written on FT and some facts get clouded, I will always try to explain what I believe to be factual, and leave the conjecture to the other contributors.

 

@filbertway You could have an expectation of a player a year. I think it is ill advised to have such expectations, as not all groups are the same. These groups are individuals who are all different, however with similar skillsets.

Is the Academy player who is currently not playing, (because Monga, Evans, Alves & the rest, are at the academy) going to be of value to the club?

Progression is not linear. Development happens for the individual at their rate, at some point they become of value, or they don't.

 

I think you can have expectations to analyse, but over a larger period of time. So we can take the decade (not a season) between 2000 - 2010 then 2010 to 2020 and review. I don't know the answers, but I would suggest that the local talent pool has not changed dramatically in that period, so the results should be similar, but I bet they are not. In the last decade, the academy has become better funded, and staffed, hence results should be better.

 

The academy exists for the 2 main reasons above yes. The club is looking to extract value, from their local talent pool. Value is as stated, improving the first team, and making money through player sales. 

 

However the academy also provides a service to the local community & local regions. The academy holds events where local non academy teams come to play at Seagrave. The academy hosts the local schools finals. The academy invites in the local footballing community to share knowledge, and for example upskill coaches. The Academy can be open and welcoming to the community, in a manner that the first team can not. The academy is used to develop positive links with the local & regional community. This is self serving, but it is a positive by product of its activity. The academy also has satellite centres in local neighbouring towns & cities, which operate the same functions as the academy, but at a local level. 

 

The eye catching work the academy does, is where the local player plays, and contributes, for the first team success. I understand why the rest gets lost because for the majority of the fans its not interesting, and not what they see. I assure you that this more interesting part is a minor % of the activity done at the academy. There are anything from 10 to 25 players in each age group. So 1 player is naturally a minor percentage of the age group let alone the overall academy. 

 

I listed players previously who are all at a minimum playing at The Championship level or higher, but sadly that didn't impress a few. 

 

The Academy isn't actively looking to develop players who will be championship players. We are looking for the England internationals, Champions League players, the very best.  Naturally the championship players will be a by product of the nature of competition, not every player here can play for England. The intent however is to produce the best players at the highest level. Be patient, you will see them come through, and not all of them will leave for a top 6 team. 

[deep blue]

Just now, Kilworthfox said:

Are you suggesting the club should make statements they know to be false in order to retain an academy player?

What I clearly suggested is that if his current club managed to convince him to settle for a CB position then it's a failing on our fault that we didn't manage earlier to reach a similar agreement with him.

[filbertway]

1 minute ago, Kilworthfox said:

OK so there is a lot of vagueness written on FT and some facts get clouded, I will always try to explain what I believe to be factual, and leave the conjecture to the other contributors.

 

@filbertway You could have an expectation of a player a year. I think it is ill advised to have such expectations, as not all groups are the same. These groups are individuals who are all different, however with similar skillsets.

Is the Academy player who is currently not playing, (because Monga, Evans, Alves & the rest, are at the academy) going to be of value to the club?

Progression is not linear. Development happens for the individual at their rate, at some point they become of value, or they don't.

 

I think you can have expectations to analyse, but over a larger period of time. So we can take the decade (not a season) between 2000 - 2010 then 2010 to 2020 and review. I don't know the answers, but I would suggest that the local talent pool has not changed dramatically in that period, so the results should be similar, but I bet they are not. In the last decade, the academy has become better funded, and staffed, hence results should be better.

 

The academy exists for the 2 main reasons above yes. The club is looking to extract value, from their local talent pool. Value is as stated, improving the first team, and making money through player sales. 

 

However the academy also provides a service to the local community & local regions. The academy holds events where local non academy teams come to play at Seagrave. The academy hosts the local schools finals. The academy invites in the local footballing community to share knowledge, and for example upskill coaches. The Academy can be open and welcoming to the community, in a manner that the first team can not. The academy is used to develop positive links with the local & regional community. This is self serving, but it is a positive by product of its activity. The academy also has satellite centres in local neighbouring towns & cities, which operate the same functions as the academy, but at a local level. 

 

The eye catching work the academy does, is where the local player plays, and contributes, for the first team success. I understand why the rest gets lost because for the majority of the fans its not interesting, and not what they see. I assure you that this more interesting part is a minor % of the activity done at the academy. There are anything from 10 to 25 players in each age group. So 1 player is naturally a minor percentage of the age group let alone the overall academy. 

 

I listed players previously who are all at a minimum playing at The Championship level or higher, but sadly that didn't impress a few. 

 

The Academy isn't actively looking to develop players who will be championship players. We are looking for the England internationals, Champions League players, the very best.  Naturally the championship players will be a by product of the nature of competition, not every player here can play for England. The intent however is to produce the best players at the highest level. Be patient, you will see them come through, and not all of them will leave for a top 6 team. 

Great reply, I was going to touch on the community aspect funnily enough, but I was focusing on what benefits the club.

 

Really good insight into what the club offers the local community at that level though so I appreciate it.

 

Agreed as well on having to look at things over a period of time rather than judging each year individually. So if we were looking at 2023-2033 grads. I'd hope to see in excess of 30 players that have come through our academy plying their trade in the top 2 tiers and/or top divisions around Europe.

 

Appreciate the insight anyway. All of mine comes from no knowledge and purely theoretical based on podcasts, articles, footie manager  So it's really good to here actual facts from someone who is actually in the know.

 

I think the number of internationals we're seeing recently is a real testament to the operation at the younger levels. Identifying the top talent and giving them top coaching. I'd just love us to nail that final piece between 17-20 and become one of the best in the country at helping quality players make transition from youth to senior.

[Kilworthfox]

5 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Provide saleable assets and them playing in the first team is surely mutually exclusive if the profit you aspire to generate is vast. Bottom line is, we got £50m for Chilwell, £35-40m for Barnes and £30-35m for KDH and yet are on the precipice of the outer limits on PSR. 

 

We simply have to have academy development as one of, if not our single biggest priority. Seagrave was surely built for this purpose and we have spent many years working tirelessly behind the scenes building this ethos and we need to carry it through. It's why I respect European teams with a long track record of bringing through academy players and how they buy low and sell high over the juggernauts clubs. That's our only hope.

If we could combine, the academy successes, with a planned and well executed senior player recruitment strategy and stick to it, Leicester City would be a footballing force. 

 

 

 

 

[Kilworthfox]

4 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Great reply, I was going to touch on the community aspect funnily enough, but I was focusing on what benefits the club.

 

Really good insight into what the club offers the local community at that level though so I appreciate it.

 

Agreed as well on having to look at things over a period of time rather than judging each year individually. So if we were looking at 2023-2033 grads. I'd hope to see in excess of 30 players that have come through our academy plying their trade in the top 2 tiers and/or top divisions around Europe.

 

Appreciate the insight anyway. All of mine comes from no knowledge and purely theoretical based on podcasts, articles, footie manager  So it's really good to here actual facts from someone who is actually in the know.

 

I think the number of internationals we're seeing recently is a real testament to the operation at the younger levels. Identifying the top talent and giving them top coaching. I'd just love us to nail that final piece between 17-20 and become one of the best in the country at helping quality players make transition from youth to senior.

The community aspect benefits the club.

 

Without wanting to contradict myself, I'd rather have a few internationals, than 20+ champ players. Non top division players are the by product, not the aim. I don't want to diminish the achievement by writing that. It would be an amazing achievement to be a professional let alone a championship player. The club however should be operating on that elite European level.

 

Don't know about ITK. Not my claim.

 

The work done by all the staff and players deserves credit at this point, its early days still, lots more to come.

 

17 -20 competition isn't the focus. The point is to win the senior competitions. I appreciate the point, yet I believe the way England has the younger competitions isn't benefitting the players but its all subjective.

[filbertway]

29 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

The community aspect benefits the club.

 

Without wanting to contradict myself, I'd rather have a few internationals, than 20+ champ players. Non top division players are the by product, not the aim. I don't want to diminish the achievement by writing that. It would be an amazing achievement to be a professional let alone a championship player. The club however should be operating on that elite European level.

 

Don't know about ITK. Not my claim.

 

The work done by all the staff and players deserves credit at this point, its early days still, lots more to come.

 

17 -20 competition isn't the focus. The point is to win the senior competitions. I appreciate the point, yet I believe the way England has the younger competitions isn't benefitting the players but its all subjective.

If we can have 20+ internationals then even better, I apologise for setting the standards so low

 

I'm not talking about winning competitions in the 17-20 age range, results are largely irrelevant (although more talent will naturally lead to winning more stuff), I'm talking about seeing those high performers in the youth ranks make the transition to men's football without stagnating for 2/3 years.

[Lesta2014]

Good to see Nelson back training with first team after injury. Think he’s still on loan with Oxford officially so hopefully manages some game with them before end of season and comes back fit and healthy ready for pre season where he should be in the running for a starting spot next season, especially with us likely relegated. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

2 minutes ago, Lesta2014 said:

Good to see Nelson back training with first team after injury. Think he’s still on loan with Oxford officially so hopefully manages some game with them before end of season and comes back fit and healthy ready for pre season where he should be in the running for a starting spot next season, especially with us likely relegated. 

Surely he starts for us next season. I would be gutted if not and we roll out the same overpaid cloggers again. 

[Lesta2014]

Just now, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Surely he starts for us next season. I would be gutted if not and we roll out the same overpaid cloggers again. 

I’d like to think so, solid enough when played last season and was playing well at Oxford before injury I believe. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

5 minutes ago, Lesta2014 said:

I’d like to think so, solid enough when played last season and was playing well at Oxford before injury I believe. 

I'm in a weird place that I genuinely would enjoy next season more if we were put under a transfer embargo and were forced into using youth. I have no desire to be watching the same faces again. 

[Ric Flair]

18 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

I'm in a weird place that I genuinely would enjoy next season more if we were put under a transfer embargo and were forced into using youth. I have no desire to be watching the same faces again. 

100% where I'm at. I'd love to see us have to carry out what we should already be doing and that the young players recognised we'll give them a chance to build their careers here and stuck by us. If that happened I'd be genuinely so happy as a fan ans couldn't give a flying fcuk if we didn't win anything.