US Presidential Election 2024

[RoboFox]

What is America's obsession with plastering their beliefs all over their cars? 

 

[chuddy8]

I disagree, when you consider that 95% of abortions in the USA are due to personal choice (i.e. unwanted pregnancy) rather than medical necessity, you literally have a situation where people are effectively terminating life as a form of birth control. 

 

Again, I'm not anti-abortion, but something clearly needs to be done, it also disproportionately affects ethnic minorities, with 65% of terminations being amongst black and hispanic women.

[chuddy8]

51 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Fair point on the first paragraph, I would just add that I have my own take solely because there are so many other situations (organ donation etc) where a life is reliant on another person's bodily autonomy and yet there freedom of choice seems entirely decisive there, so just focusing on abortion seems hypocritical and controlling.

 

WRT the second paragraph, I get where the thought process of those folks is coming from, but it's a mistake that will cost other people a lot short term and everyone, including them, long term. It's deeply frustrating to know that, and have people choose their short term self interest and things go bad anyway.

 

And put l yet people are still trying to nail Starmer to the wall regardless of how cool and calm and policy based he has tried to be.

 

We've talked about this before and I know your point is good, but in this era I'm really not sure how effective "going high" is as a solution. But then going gutter as Trump is is no solution either, so I've no idea of a solution. I just hope that there is a solution, so that the future isn't inevitably very dark.

Did things go bad in the short term for a lot of people during Trump's last presidency? He's brash and crass, but he has a vision for the USA that I think will impact positively on the majority, of course there will always be those that don't benefit, but that's life.

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, chuddy8 said:

I disagree, when you consider that 95% of abortions in the USA are due to personal choice (i.e. unwanted pregnancy) rather than medical necessity, you literally have a situation where people are effectively terminating life as a form of birth control. 

 

Again, I'm not anti-abortion, but something clearly needs to be done, it also disproportionately affects ethnic minorities, with 65% of terminations being amongst black and hispanic women.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the choice every time, but I would seriously advocate for the choice to exist. That's important IMO.

 

9 minutes ago, chuddy8 said:

Did things go bad in the short term for a lot of people during Trump's last presidency? He's brash and crass, but he has a vision for the USA that I think will impact positively on the majority, of course there will always be those that don't benefit, but that's life.

Economically I don't think there's much evidence that things went bad.

 

Socially and environmentally is a different story, but then those things often play into economics anyway.

 

Long term though, I have to be honest, his policy on green matters will only end disastrously and that needs to be considered more.

[Jattdogg]

Just going to ignore America for the next 3 years until the next election cycle

 

Make sure our own gardens are tidy (Trudeau needs to go but the other candidates leave much to be desired. Sighhhhhhh.)

 

 

[RoboFox]

35 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the choice every time, but I would seriously advocate for the choice to exist. That's important IMO.

 

Economically I don't think there's much evidence that things went bad.

 

Socially and environmentally is a different story, but then those things often play into economics anyway.

 

Long term though, I have to be honest, his policy on green matters will only end disastrously and that needs to be considered more.

Arguably Trump's biggest legislative achievement was The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act — which was intended, per Trump, to super-charge the economy yet increased the federal debt as well as after-tax incomes disproportionately for the most affluent. U.S. corporations got to keep more of their money, and the U.S. government got less. Economic growth and median wages were way smaller than expected. 

 

Policy skewed towards the rich and so-called "trickle down economics" failing like it has pretty much for the last half a century. Colour me surprised. 

 

But hey, Trump will get God to stop making people want to become drag queens or something 

 

Edited 24 October 2024 by RoboFox

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

Arguably Trump's biggest legislative achievement was The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act — which was intended, per Trump, to super-charge the economy yet increased the federal debt as well as after-tax incomes disproportionately for the most affluent. U.S. corporations got to keep more of their money, and the U.S. government got less. Economic growth and median wages were way smaller than expected. 

 

Policy skewed towards the rich and so-called "trickle down economics" failing like it has pretty much for the last half a century. Colour me surprised. 

 

But hey, Trump will get God to stop making people want to become drag queens or something 

 

Appreciate the additional info.

 

I guess the point is that the economic policies might be ones that the debate can be clouded just enough on because of the complexity. When it comes to social and scientific policies, there is no such clouding - they are objectively negative and that cannot really be argued against.

 

Unfortunately, economics and xenophobic dog whistling on immigration have dominated the policy debate.

Edited 24 October 2024 by leicsmac

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

 

 

Definitely, definitely not a cult. 

This was during a prayer meeting at a church. Evangelicals and Christians barely vote, the sneering at their way of life and prayer is probably why.

[chuddy8]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Appreciate the additional info.

 

I guess the point is that the economic policies might be ones that the debate can be clouded just enough on because of the complexity. When it comes to social and scientific policies, there is no such clouding - they are objectively negative and that cannot really be argued against.

 

Unfortunately, economics and xenophobic dog whistling on immigration have dominated the policy debate.

you DON'T think immigration is a legitimate concern?

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, chuddy8 said:

you DON'T think immigration is a legitimate concern?

I think it's a legitimate concern, I don't think it's anywhere as high on the list as it's been placed and also that those who consider it a major concern also vastly overlook a problem that will result in that immigration "problem" becoming at least an order of magnitude larger in the future, which shows a lack of appreciation for actually solving the problem by looking at root cause.

 

But evidently the narrative disagrees there.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

This was during a prayer meeting at a church. Evangelicals and Christians barely vote, the sneering at their way of life and prayer is probably why.

They certainly sway legal and political opinion though, if recent Supreme Court and Congress decisions and discussions regarding equal rights are any judge.

 

Speaking personally, if they want to still believe it's pre 1950s with all the social repercussions that entails then that's their choice, it would just be nice if they didn't attempt to legislate their own morality for everyone else.

 

NB. And if the above is sneering, so be it - groups that would inhibit equal rights for women and LGBT people without consent have no place in a modern society.

[EnderbyFox]

It looks a lot less like a prayer meet & a lot more like Trump has just shit his pants and is being told it's nothing to be embarrassed about at his age

 

EDIT: Bloke on the far left just caught his first whiff

Edited 24 October 2024 by EnderbyFox

[grobyfox1990]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

They certainly sway legal and political opinion though, if recent Supreme Court and Congress decisions and discussions regarding equal rights are any judge.

 

Speaking personally, if they want to still believe it's pre 1950s with all the social repercussions that entails then that's their choice, it would just be nice if they didn't attempt to legislate their own morality for everyone else.

 

NB. And if the above is sneering, so be it - groups that would inhibit equal rights for women and LGBT people without consent have no place in a modern society.

That is a completely different subject, you've moved from 0-100 into an ideological debate. Trump is appealing to a core demographic, who could swing this election, by praying with his party in a church. Unless you believe covid was faked, Lucy Letby is a saint and Hurricane Helene was due to cloud seeding, there is nothing more sinister in that picture. And the belittling of it will only swing the core away from the Dims.

Furthermore, this is the West. We legislate our morality across the world on a daily basis. See Starmer in Samoa.

[chuddy8]

1 hour ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

 

 

Definitely, definitely not a cult. 

 

fixed it.

[leicsmac]

Just now, grobyfox1990 said:

That is a completely different subject, you've moved from 0-100 into an ideological debate. Trump is appealing to a core demographic, who could swing this election, by praying with his party in a church. Unless you believe covid was faked, Lucy Letby is a saint and Hurricane Helene was due to cloud seeding, there is nothing more sinister in that picture. And the belittling of it will only swing the core away from the Dims.

Furthermore, this is the West. We legislate our morality across the world on a daily basis. See Starmer in Samoa.

I'm sorry, I thought the topic was how influential the evangelical bloc was in the US? Pardon if that's not the case. I think they have a lot of pull.

 

The matter of the following of Trump (evangelical or otherwise) being cult-like is clearly a matter of debate and everyone will have their own take on that.

 

You're absolutely right with the last paragraph, it happens all the time. I'd just rather not have that particular moral compass setting the agenda for everyone else though. For the sake of a great many people now and everyone later.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, chuddy8 said:

 

fixed it.

That's more fvcking like it.

[grobyfox1990]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm sorry, I thought the topic was how influential the evangelical bloc was in the US? Pardon if that's not the case. I think they have a lot of pull.

 

The matter of the following of Trump (evangelical or otherwise) being cult-like is clearly a matter of debate and everyone will have their own take on that.

 

You're absolutely right with the last paragraph, it happens all the time. I'd just rather not have that particular moral compass setting the agenda for everyone else though. For the sake of a great many people now and everyone later.

Yeh I get where you are coming from. The initial post reminded me of internet idiots saying things like 'the Jews run the world' because of their positions of power in public and private life, despite their lower overall mass and voting number.

I thought that was what your post was hinting at, but replacing Jews with evangelicals, now I see your username I apologise and realise that is defo not your stance! Void the comment.

[Detroit Blues]

4 hours ago, chuddy8 said:

Have you seen the state of a lot of American cities these days? Let's hope for the sake of the US, that Trump does win. 

 

Fine, i'll bite. What's wrong with our cities? 

[jgtuk]

2 hours ago, chuddy8 said:

I disagree, when you consider that 95% of abortions in the USA are due to personal choice (i.e. unwanted pregnancy) rather than medical necessity, you literally have a situation where people are effectively terminating life as a form of birth control. 

 

Again, I'm not anti-abortion, but something clearly needs to be done, it also disproportionately affects ethnic minorities, with 65% of terminations being amongst black and hispanic women.

That’s blatantly not true, Elective and unspecified reasons: 95.9% is the reason given, not quite the same as “unwanted pregnancy” 

Any woman should have the right to choose what happens to her body for whatever reason she chooses, as long as it’s within health guidelines. 
Very often it’s things like poverty, lack of housing or a decent support network which cause women to seek abortions. 
Most often, the reasons given against abortion are based around religious teachings. 

 

[bovril]

53 minutes ago, Detroit Blues said:

 

Fine, i'll bite. What's wrong with our cities? 

Much higher murder rates than European cities for a start. A lot uglier and impersonal too, from what I've seen, although admittedly that's only from second hand experience.

[Robo61]

3 hours ago, bovril said:

Much higher murder rates than European cities for a start. A lot uglier and impersonal too, from what I've seen, although admittedly that's only from second hand experience.

The poster was suggesting that a) it is a recent phenomenon b) trump  would improve things.

[davieG]

5 hours ago, EnderbyFox said:

It looks a lot less like a prayer meet & a lot more like Trump has just shit his pants and is being told it's nothing to be embarrassed about at his age

 

EDIT: Bloke on the far left just caught his first whiff

I just shit my pants laughing at that. (not really)

[Mark_w]

5 hours ago, chuddy8 said:

 

fixed it.

[Zear0]

1 hour ago, Mark_w said:

Dan Brown's alternate ending.

[The Horse's Mouth]

On 22/10/2024 at 20:04, EnderbyFox said:

Twitter is just a full on propaganda machine these days isn't it. That "For You" tab is completely fabricated, never interacted with any Elon Musk tweets yet the For You page is completely full of his nonsense. 

 

Had a notifcation as soon as I logged in yesterday saying Donald Trump was livestreaming a rally.. couldn't give a toss mate, I log on Twitter for funny tweets about Steve Cooper

Elon has kinda become what he was trying to destroy. Twitter was largely a left wing echo chamber but since he’s become political I do see far too much of that shit.

 

still think it’s better than before, in terms of exposing yourself to different ideas cause I still get some mad lefties and war criminal Campbell keeps popping up.