Cooper - OUT

[orangecity23]

Hmmm - seeing where we are in 4 games + a guarantee we would have been thrashed playing last seasons style.

 

Next 4 games has Bournemouth and Southampton. Last season we beat Bournemouth in the cup with a largely reserve team playing, and thrashed Southampton twice.

Lets see how this seasons "Style" of play (that gets outclassed by league 2 Walsall and has to hang on desperately for a 0-0) gets on in the equivalent fixtures. My prediction - badly.

[Ric Flair]

7 hours ago, Babylon said:

Because it's not what he wants, all his guff about posession and atractive football, or being inspired by x, y, z spanish coach is, from what I can tell so far, a tall tale. 

 

I wrote a long post this morning about my biggest gripe with his is the fact he's sold himself as something he's quite clearly not (which for some reason vanished or didn't post), I fell for it and the board probably fell for it as well. Perhaps I'm too trusting in what people say. 

 

That's not to say his way can't keep us up, it can. But whilst trying to paint himself as some expansive forward thinking coach, he's so far just proved to be your usual bog standard limited british coach. Trading standards should probably have a word about false advertising. 

He's also no pragmatist that adapts his tactics to suit the squad. His explanation for this box midfield that pushes one of the wingers inside and one full back sits whilst the other pushes up is currently alienating one of Mavididi or Fatawu and rendered Ricardo a mere cheerleader.

 

He has a set way of playing and it is not one that logically suits this squad nor has it even remotely worked yet.

[enmac]

Scored 2 more goals against Arsenal than PSG, who according to Petit, never looked like scoring, even if the game had lasted 2 days. 

[Sunbury Fox]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He's also no pragmatist that adapts his tactics to suit the squad. His explanation for this box midfield that pushes one of the wingers inside and one full back sits whilst the other pushes up is currently alienating one of Mavididi or Fatawu and rendered Ricardo a mere cheerleader.

 

He has a set way of playing and it is not one that logically suits this squad nor has it even remotely worked yet.

This is bang on. You have got to fit the system around the best players you have, not vice versa. If he had really studied all of our games from last season, as he claims, then he would know Fatawu, Mavididi and Ricardo were amongst our best players and therefore should all be starting. 

[Sunbury Fox]

4 hours ago, Father Ted said:

Let’s see where we are at in 4 games time. Before the season started, I think all would have taken 17th place, so why should the objective change now? Do none of you remember the total dross served up that saw us stumble over the line at the end of last season? Guarantee that style of football would have us straight back down like Burnley the previous season. 
 

Give Cooper time. 

In 90% of games last season, teams parked the bus against us, so we had no choice but to play a heavy possession game. But against better teams in the PL, Enzo would have adapted the style, as he did twice against Southampton in the league and at Bournemouth in the Cup. In those games we were happy to sit deeper and hit teams on the counter. And we looked bloody brilliant. One thing is for certain, Enzo would not be playing bloody Ayew or Reid over Fatawu or Mavididi, or ostracising our best technical player in Ricardo. 

Edited 2 October 2024 by Sunbury Fox

[GingerrrFox]

14 minutes ago, enmac said:

Scored 2 more goals against Arsenal than PSG, who according to Petit, never looked like scoring, even if the game had lasted 2 days. 

Yeah sound but if we didn’t have the 2nd coming of a Danish goalkeeping king in goal we would have lost about 8-2. 

[enmac]

2 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

Yeah sound but if we didn’t have the 2nd coming of a Danish goalkeeping king in goal we would have lost about 8-2. 

Boring

[funkyrobot]

37 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He's also no pragmatist that adapts his tactics to suit the squad. His explanation for this box midfield that pushes one of the wingers inside and one full back sits whilst the other pushes up is currently alienating one of Mavididi or Fatawu and rendered Ricardo a mere cheerleader.

 

He has a set way of playing and it is not one that logically suits this squad nor has it even remotely worked yet.

I just don’t get Cooper’s system. It requires an almost superhuman fullback who is both able to defend in a 4 but also vacates this position and suddenly attacks like a wingback! Seems much more of a stretch to ask a fullback to perform this role than it was to ask a fullback to slot in as a deep lying centre midfielder in possession like Enzo had Ricardo playing last year. Certainly way more yards to cover, and much more likely to be exposed when the opponents counterattack.

 

Enzo’s system allowed two wingers and still employed a midfield box using 2 number 8’s. Cooper’s system uses only one specialist winger and makes our attack lob sided and our defence lob sided too. The lack of 2 number 8’s also makes the team very reliant on a number 10 and unless they are top level players in that role (e.g. a Maddison) they again can be targeted as opponents know they are the only midfield creative source. I’d argue that we do have creative midfielders (El and Buonanotte) that much more fit the profile of number 8’s. Busy and creative but not yet at the class that they could dominate the game like a true 10 at premier league level. 
 

 

Edited 2 October 2024 by funkyrobot

[MattFox]

Does anyone that’s not a WUM still support this guy?

 

 

[Sunbury Fox]

32 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

I just don’t get Cooper’s system. It requires an almost superhuman fullback who is both able to defend in a 4 but also vacates this position and suddenly attacks like a wingback! Seems much more of a stretch to ask a fullback to perform this role than it was to ask a fullback to slot in as a deep lying centre midfielder in possession like Enzo had Ricardo playing last year. Certainly way more yards to cover, and much more likely to be exposed when the opponents counterattack.

 

Enzo’s system allowed two wingers and still employed a midfield box using 2 number 8’s. Cooper’s system uses only one specialist winger and makes our attack lob sided and our defence lob sided too. The lack of 2 number 8’s also makes the team very reliant on a number 10 and unless they are top level players in that role (e.g. a Maddison) they again can be targeted as opponents know they are the only midfield creative source. I’d argue that we do have creative midfielders (El and Buonanotte) that much more fit the profile of number 8’s. Busy and creative but not yet at the class that they could dominate the game like a true 10 at premier league level. 
 

 

I agree that Cooper’s system just doesn’t work. We end up being lopsided, with no RB when we’re defending and no RW when we’re attacking. 

[hackneyfox]

On 01/10/2024 at 20:37, SixtiesFox said:

You obviously have more insight than our board. That's nothing to shout about!

Not really, just applying common sense and basic maths.

[worthosoriginals]

42 minutes ago, MattFox said:

Does anyone that’s not a WUM still support this guy?

 

 

His mrs

[5waller5]

1 hour ago, Sunbury Fox said:

In 90% of games last season, teams parked the bus against us, so we had no choice but to play a heavy possession game. But against better teams in the PL, Enzo would have adapted the style, as he did twice against Southampton in the league and at Bournemouth in the Cup. In those games we were happy to sit deeper and hit teams on the counter. And we looked bloody brilliant. One thing is for certain, Cooper would not be playing bloody Ayew or Reid over Fatawu or Mavididi, or ostracising our best technical player in Ricardo. 

Maresca?

[5waller5]

57 minutes ago, MattFox said:

Does anyone that’s not a WUM still support this guy?

 

 

I had the misfortune of interacting with a loud, thick, drunk, coked up “football fan” from Notts, in a Norwich bobble hat, who despised “Leicester Sh!tty” because we sacked Ranieri and will do the same again with Cooper - Who is far too good for us. 
 

Apart from him. No.

[The whole world smiles]

51 minutes ago, MattFox said:

Does anyone that’s not a WUM still support this guy?

 

 

Starting to find these kind of posts quite annoying. Having a more balanced view on the situation doesn't meant that you out and out support him. I was gutted when he got the job. I am not pro cooper I am pro giving him another 5 games or so because...

 

- sacking him now would be the 2nd fastest managerial sacking in premier league history in terms of league games. This is probably an indicator it's a bit soon also its is going to hurt us in terms of getting in a decent replacement. We struggled to get anyone in good in the summer so imagine how much harder it will be to get good candidates after sacking someone after just 6 league games we would look like a complete basket case club (even more so)

 

- we just spent the summer bringing in his kind of players to play his kind of football (whatever that is) surely it's worth waiting a little longer to see if it clicks before we start dialing Dean Smiths number (yes those are the waters we are swimming him here)

 

- we don't need to not be shit we just need need to be not quite as shit as 3 other teams currently we are achieving this. People who are expecting free flowing football and mid table comfort are very naive to the gap between the champ and prem and the state of the current squad and of the managers available to us.

 

- he has kept a newly promoted team up in very recent memory. 2023 to be precise. 

 

- the club are absolutely in no way shape or form going to sack him anytime soon. To do so would be an admission they got it very wrong and they aren't about to do without exhausting the possibility of him turning it around. Also you lot are very good at moaning on internet boards, complaining about Rudkin and berrating people who disagree with you but less good at getting organised and putting any kind of pressure on the club to act so in a nutshell he is going nowhere probably at least till late Nov. So if he's going nowhere and you aren't gonna get organised and do anything about it just calm down a bit try and keep the old blood pressure in check and see what happens in the next month.

 

If someone like moyes wanted the job right now I would say sack him post haste but believe me he doesn't so we are where we are.

[funkyrobot]

2 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

Starting to find these kind of posts quite annoying. Having a more balanced view on the situation doesn't meant that you out and out support him. I was gutted when he got the job. I am not pro cooper I am pro giving him another 5 games or so because...

 

- sacking him now would be the 2nd fastest managerial sacking in premier league history in terms of league games. This is probably an indicator it's a bit soon also its is going to hurt us in terms of getting in a decent replacement. We struggled to get anyone in good in the summer so imagine how much harder it will be to get good candidates after sacking someone after just 6 league games we would look like a complete basket case club (even more so)

 

- we just spent the summer bringing in his kind of players to play his kind of football (whatever that is) surely it's worth waiting a little longer to see if it clicks before we start dialing Dean Smiths number (yes those are the waters we are swimming him here)

 

- we don't need to not be shit we just need need to be not quite as shit as 3 other teams currently we are achieving this. People who are expecting free flowing football and mid table comfort are very naive to the gap between the champ and prem and the state of the current squad and of the managers available to us.

 

- he has kept a newly promoted team up in very recent memory. 2023 to be precise. 

 

- the club are absolutely in no way shape or form going to sack him anytime soon. To do so would be an admission they got it very wrong and they aren't about to do without exhausting the possibility of him turning it around. Also you lot are very good at moaning on internet boards, complaining about Rudkin and berrating people who disagree with you but less good at getting organised and putting any kind of pressure on the club to act so in a nutshell he is going nowhere probably at least till late Nov. So if he's going nowhere and you aren't gonna get organised and do anything about it just calm down a bit try and keep the old blood pressure in check and see what happens in the next month.

 

If someone like moyes wanted the job right now I would say sack him post haste but believe me he doesn't so we are where we are.

Not sure what authority you’ve got to tell us Moyes doesn’t want the job tbf. Are you a Moyes ITK specialist? Personally I’m not sure he’s the best option when Cooper is inevitably sacked anyway

[The whole world smiles]

With Rodgers and Enzo the fan base was divided between people who liked them (excluding the last season with Rodgers) and people who hated them. 

 

This time the fan base is divided between people who want to sack him now and people who want to wait a few games.

 

It shouldn't be a radical or controversial decision to not want commit the 2nd quickest sacking in history.

[worthosoriginals]

27 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

I had the misfortune of interacting with a loud, thick, drunk, coked up “football fan” from Notts, in a Norwich bobble hat, who despised “Leicester Sh!tty” because we sacked Ranieri and will do the same again with Cooper - Who is far too good for us. 
 

Apart from him. No.

Sounds much like the average cooper apologist

[The whole world smiles]

7 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

Not sure what authority you’ve got to tell us Moyes doesn’t want the job tbf. Are you a Moyes ITK specialist? Personally I’m not sure he’s the best option when Cooper is inevitably sacked anyway

I don't know for sure you are right but Was he not out of work in the summer? Pretty sure they would have spoken to him if he had any interest in the job and it won't exactly look more appealing after a 6 game basket case sacking. I genuinely hope we can get an established successful manager like moyes but like I said in my post feel like we are shopping in different waters now.

Edited 2 October 2024 by The whole world smiles

[lcfcsnow]

Moyes won't be much different to Cooper, another manager who will choose experienced pros over anything bordering exciting.

[The whole world smiles]

Duplicate post.

Edited 2 October 2024 by The whole world smiles

[The whole world smiles]

3 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

Moyes won't be much different to Cooper, another manager who will choose experienced pros over anything bordering exciting.

Who do you think is realistic and would keep us up? Not being facious, genuine question?

[Filbert Fireworks]

When we lost Enzo and with the potential points deduction the board made a decision. 

 

Carry on with the progressive style of play which with our squad would have been a massive risk. Could have had a Potter type but found ourselves adrift then faced with bringing in a dean smith / big sam type when its all too late.

 

The alternative was to accept we would be in bottom 5 all season but try and avoid relegation playing ugly football and then rebuild next season with premier league survival secured. 

 

For context our striker is 38 years old which says everything about where we are at. 38 and in the most ruthless league in the world. 

 

They went for cooper knowing it would be ugly and as fans it's horrific to watch in comparison but it was a bold decision at the time and based on Cooper keeping Notts up they thought it could work. 

[lcfcsnow]

6 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

Who do you think is realistic and would keep us up? Not being facious, genuine question?

I don't want any dinosaur manager, show some aspiration to be better than what we are or may as well not bother and stick with Cooper and let the inevitable happen.

[GingerrrFox]

7 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

Who do you think is realistic and would keep us up? Not being facious, genuine question?

Kasper Hjulmund would 100% manage us. He has knowledge of our Danish contingent and he would actually play progressive football. We don’t have to play how Enzo wanted us to play but bringing in a manager who will give them a good shape and patterns of play to improvise off then we will have a much better chance of staying up this season. 
 

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/kasper-hjulmand-denmark-nordsjaelland-tactics/