LCFC 2-4 Arsenal - Post Match Thread

[trooky]

Califiori should have had a 2nd yellow at 2-2, even Theo Walcott thought the same on MOTD.

[foxfanazer]

3 minutes ago, trooky said:

Califiori should have had a 2nd yellow at 2-2, even Theo Walcott thought the same on MOTD.

It's an inexcusable mistake and who knows, we may have held on against 10 men 

 

It's clear we're not gonna get decisions go out way this season

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, Filbert Fireworks said:

Minus Everton I think our results have been spot on if not exceeded expectation. 

We were in league one once.

[UniFox21]

Hate how we can't seem to pull a performance out for more than a half. 

Too many times we've needed to have been dreadful to have any sort of go 

[LcFc_Smiv]

13 minutes ago, Iwebema said:

Aren't you the one who called everyone who didn't agree with you a ****? 🤪

 

I dont work with in the game, but the person I referred to when challenged to explain the case for why we shouldn't be critical of him just said you aren't a real fan and we don't want you 🤷‍♀️

 

There are many tactical and analytical outlets today that mean you can inform yourself today which I try and do....we even have one outlet in here who kindly breaks down every game for us to be informed.

 

And so far the give him time crowd are yet to be able to explain their argument with anything other than just believe! Or apparently swearing at others 👍 i am all for hearing the other side of the argument I just haven't seen anyone make the case yet, because above all else I just want us to do well!

 

Analytically, tactically, or just using your eyes, it isn't working so far, there are so many red flags I have lost count, we are essentially hoping he changes how he manages despite years of evidence he isn't going to do that.

 

No one expected us to win yesterday it was all about the performance, which was absolutely terrible, we approached the game like we were Grimsby, and the real problem here is its not an isolated incident, sure we got back to 2-2 but if you take the hyperbole away from it and analyse it which I know the "believe harder and clap louder" crowd absolutely loathe to do, it was a combination of pure luck, which we will need alot of for sure and a brilliant goal keeping performance keeping us within touching distance, but it's another example of us out performing what is happening on the pitch, which just won't continue, so we are already at peak with him with no wins based ok how he continues to set up and manage a game.

 

One thing I have said in his favour is I'm not 100% sure I buy the players hate him, I actually think they are working hard for him which does offer some hope! But it will take more than that which is not showing up.

 

IF he changes his approach, sets us up like we aren't a league two side, changes the double pivot, finds ways to exploit the oppositions obvious weaknesses and manages a full 90 minutes with good subs then yep I'm all in for the cooper experience, but let's be clear so far none of that has happened and his track record suggests it won't.

I am and I was dead in the wrong too. I don't disagree with what you say and I don't think your wrong. Apologies if I misunderstood your original response to another poster.

 

Im pretty much in line with where your at but hold hope he will still turn this around. I think he's gone with a pretty conservative approach to the start of the season and I can understand why. I said  anything less than 4 points from this run of four games would have me wanting some form of change, and with Bournemouth to go pressure is mounting. I still maintain from what I have seen I can see a positive run coming after the international break but, I appreciate why people may have reservations. And if im wrong, we will be in a very very dark place.

[worth_the_wait]

3 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

It’s quite obvious the quality is there because we wouldn’t be scoring the goals. The second goal from us is really good build up play, a pretty bad cross but an incredible finish. 
 

These twenty to thirty minutes often occur when we are losing because the gameplay set up by Cooper is out of the window and the players are simply finding a way to get something. 
 

I don’t want to hear this squad isn’t good enough when for twenty minutes in second half they were really good yesterday - we can’t say at 2/1 Arsenal were particularly in control of the game. 

I understand what you're saying, but there is something that annoys amuses me.   This is a general observation, not a specific criticism of what you've put above, and it's this ...

 

Every time our players do something good, it's because there's quality in the team.   Nothing to do with the manager.   In fact, everything good they do, is despite the manager.

 

But every time one of our players does something stupid, like missing a great chance to score, taking a poor corner, giving the ball away, not tracking back, bad marking, or giving away a penalty ... it's all the manager's fault for team selection, tactics, substitutions, or whatever else we can blame on him.

 

 

[CosbehFox]

3 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

I understand what you're saying, but there is something that annoys amuses me.   This is a general observation, not a specific criticism of what you've put above, and it's this ...

 

Every time our players do something good, it's because there's quality in the team.   Nothing to do with the manager.   In fact, everything good they do, is despite the manager.

 

But every time one of our players does something stupid, like missing a great chance to score, taking a poor corner, giving the ball away, not tracking back, bad marking, or giving away a penalty ... it's all the manager's fault for team selection, tactics, substitutions, or whatever else we can blame on him.

 

 

I see your point but disagree. 
 

the good stuff is happening when the team are behind(which is a trend no one has really spoken about - 5 out of the 6 games we’ve been behind and start poorly) 

 

the bad stuff happens when the team are ahead or level

 

So that suggests to me the failings are largely down to the structure the manager sets them in (ie we start every game level) and ifs only when we are behind that we step out of the structure the manager sets them in 

Edited 29 September 2024 by CosbehFox

[worth_the_wait]

5 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I see your point but disagree. 
 

the good stuff is happening when the team are behind(which is a trend no one has really spoken about - 5 out of the 6 games we’ve been behind and start poorly) 

 

the bad stuff happens when the team are ahead or level

 

So that suggests to me the failings are largely down to the structure the manager sets them in (ie we start every game level) and ifs only when we are behind that we step out of the structure the manager sets them in 

I know what you're saying.

 

But in fairness,  3 of the games where we've done much better in the 2nd half  (Tottenham, Everton and Arsenal) came directly after the half time interval ... and not just the players changing how they were playing mid half.       

 

The point being, possibly what the manager and coaches said at half time was an important factor in the improvement?    dunno.    I'm not in the dressing room, so can't say, but I'm just trying to keep and open mind on the subject. 

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, worth_the_wait said:

I know what you're saying.

 

But in fairness,  3 of the games where we've done much better in the 2nd half  (Tottenham, Everton and Arsenal) came directly after the half time interval ... and not just the players changing how they were playing mid half.       

 

The point being, possibly what the manager and coaches said at half time was an important factor in the improvement?    dunno.    I'm not in the dressing room, so can't say, but I'm just trying to keep and open mind on the subject. 

I don’t think that’s a ringing endorsement for the management . It’s taking 45 minutes on (three occasions) to find a solution and they have all week to do opposition analysis 

 

The trends behind the results are shocking 

[Iwebema]

20 minutes ago, LcFc_Smiv said:

I am and I was dead in the wrong too. I don't disagree with what you say and I don't think your wrong. Apologies if I misunderstood your original response to another poster.

 

Im pretty much in line with where your at but hold hope he will still turn this around. I think he's gone with a pretty conservative approach to the start of the season and I can understand why. I said  anything less than 4 points from this run of four games would have me wanting some form of change, and with Bournemouth to go pressure is mounting. I still maintain from what I have seen I can see a positive run coming after the international break but, I appreciate why people may have reservations. And if im wrong, we will be in a very very dark place.

No worries, I do prefer sensible debate about stuff like this, but sometimes you can't help but get caught up in the slanging of a forum! I'm sure I am no saint either!

 

I think where I am at is that pretty conservative approach, I believe to just be who he is as a manager, and I just don't see anything that will say he will change, and I freely admit I have last days of Rodgers PTSD, fell out with some close friends of mine over that debacle! To be clear if he does change I will be delighted and happily eat humble pie...because the success of the club is more important than point scoring on a forum...I think 🤪

 

[J. James]

17 hours ago, Madelin21 said:

Most corrupt league in the world. Can't have one team runaway with the league, thats bad for business. So we'll screw little old Leicester to keep it competitive. All about money. 

Hmmm.. The problem with this type of conspiracy theory - just like the "Americans faked the moon landing" one, is that hundreds of people would by necessity need to be a part of - in this instance- criminal enterprise.

 

Someone would talk or be caught/killed if this was happening but frankly it's not.

 

Don't get me wrong, yes they are corrupt,

yes money obsessed and along with FIFA turning a beautiful sport into surprise free entertainment, but direct match fixing?

 

No.

 

 

 

[J. James]

35 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

But every time one of our players does something stupid, like missing a great chance to score, taking a poor corner, giving the ball away, not tracking back, bad marking, or giving away a penalty ... it's all the manager's fault for team selection, tactics, substitutions, or whatever else we can blame on him.

 

Spot on, it's yet more confirmation bias, and it is a self sustaining and self propogating effect.

Posters hate an individual, look (and frankly invent) reasons why they are without question correct in their views conveniently omitting contrary evidence and frankly a million variables which may affect outcomes AND without knowledge of the real situation of players fitness/readiness and lots of other nesses!

 

Our apparent inability to hold out in the last few minutes is 1% down to a manager and 99% down to the 22 fabulously wealthy players on the pitch.

 

But this doesn't fit the narrative atm.

[J. James]

2 hours ago, Mark said:

It’s not just a reaction to one game is it, this is following a week where we’ve failed to beat Everton and Walsall and he’s shown nothing to suggest he knows what he’s doing at any point since pre season

Sorry, but the players at this club are ALL top class aren't they?

Any eleven should have beaten Walsall easily if they are indeed a class or two above the lower leagues players.

 

The fact is there is a very small difference between prem and EFL players and an even smaller difference between coaches.

 

Imao both results are mostly down to players and partly to the hopeless running of the club forcing us to sell our best players.

Cooper takes some blame but he is not the main problem - if there even is one!

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, worth_the_wait said:

I know what you're saying.

 

But in fairness,  3 of the games where we've done much better in the 2nd half  (Tottenham, Everton and Arsenal) came directly after the half time interval ... and not just the players changing how they were playing mid half.       

 

The point being, possibly what the manager and coaches said at half time was an important factor in the improvement?    dunno.    I'm not in the dressing room, so can't say, but I'm just trying to keep and open mind on the subject. 

Spurs had 3 or 4 great chances in the 2nd half before we scored out of absolutely nowhere

[Foxdiamond]

54 minutes ago, J. James said:

Hmmm.. The problem with this type of conspiracy theory - just like the "Americans faked the moon landing" one, is that hundreds of people would by necessity need to be a part of - in this instance- criminal enterprise.

 

Someone would talk or be caught/killed if this was happening but frankly it's not.

 

Don't get me wrong, yes they are corrupt,

yes money obsessed and along with FIFA turning a beautiful sport into surprise free entertainment, but direct match fixing?

 

No.

 

 

 

More likely a cock up than a conspiracy. Agree the game is ruined by the money obsession. 

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, foxfanazer said:

It's an inexcusable mistake and who knows, we may have held on against 10 men 

 

It's clear we're not gonna get decisions go out way this season

How times change. Almost exactly 9 years ago we lost 5-2 at home to Arsenal but the good vibe remained and the rest is glorious history. No such good vibes now

[Foxdiamond]

2 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

It's an inexcusable mistake and who knows, we may have held on against 10 men 

 

It's clear we're not gonna get decisions go out way this season

The ref was oh so quick to give our bloke the yellow for his reaction to the foul but strangely did not book the Arsenal player for what was obviously a second yellow.

[The Doctor]

58 minutes ago, J. James said:

Spot on, it's yet more confirmation bias, and it is a self sustaining and self propogating effect.

Posters hate an individual, look (and frankly invent) reasons why they are without question correct in their views conveniently omitting contrary evidence and frankly a million variables which may affect outcomes AND without knowledge of the real situation of players fitness/readiness and lots of other nesses!

 

Our apparent inability to hold out in the last few minutes is 1% down to a manager and 99% down to the 22 fabulously wealthy players on the pitch.

 

But this doesn't fit the narrative atm.

I mean while yes, the players have to take some responsibility, whether we hold out or not can be made drastically more or less likely by the managers tactics. While Cooper isn't telling Justin to kick it out of Hermansens hands, or for Coady to just dive recklessly into tackles, he's creating the situations where that happens by putting the wrong players out there and asking them to approach the game in the wrong way

[LcFc_Smiv]

1 hour ago, Iwebema said:

No worries, I do prefer sensible debate about stuff like this, but sometimes you can't help but get caught up in the slanging of a forum! I'm sure I am no saint either!

 

I think where I am at is that pretty conservative approach, I believe to just be who he is as a manager, and I just don't see anything that will say he will change, and I freely admit I have last days of Rodgers PTSD, fell out with some close friends of mine over that debacle! To be clear if he does change I will be delighted and happily eat humble pie...because the success of the club is more important than point scoring on a forum...I think 🤪

 

It is very easy to get caught up in heat of the moment especially on here. 

 

I think back to where we were under Rodgers and I cant remember ever thinking anything positive in that relegation season. The first 75 minutes against Brentford and the result against forest maybe, everything else I just remember being pain and agony and I feel a long way off that with Cooper at the moment. Haha success of the club is definitely more important but we all like to score a few points on the forum especially when the team aren't picking any up on the pitch 

[ozleicester]

3 hours ago, Mon.is.a.god said:

Wasted energy is moaning on FoxesTalk and not doing anything constructive about it like marching down Filbert Way and chanting your displeasure outside the KP. That’s what I’d be doing if I was angry. Same under Rodger’s, are fan base are spineless moaners.

foxestalk will rip you a new one if you protest anything  

[sishades]

4 hours ago, Mon.is.a.god said:

Wasted energy is moaning on FoxesTalk and not doing anything constructive about it like marching down Filbert Way and chanting your displeasure outside the KP. That’s what I’d be doing if I was angry. Same under Rodger’s, our fan base are spineless moaners.

There is nothing to stop you going down FW and protesting.

[adam95581]

4 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Hate how we can't seem to pull a performance out for more than a half. 

Too many times we've needed to have been dreadful to have any sort of go 

And those good halves have usually been the second halves after we’ve had to start chasing the game.
 

Cooper is wasting the potential we have going forward - Mavididi and Buoanotte have both looked promising. Fatawu has been disappointing but we know what he can do when he’s on it. Then you’ve got Vardy who will take a chance if given it. We’re sleepwalking into a situation where we leave ourselves too much to do 

[Dan]

Think in a way that's the most damaging game that could've played out. Statistically and with the way the match played out we lose that by 3+ 9 times out of 10, but we've ended up still losing the game anyway and created a bit of an illusion that we've played well. Our goalkeeper getting man of the match in a game we let in 4 goals is quite telling.

 

There is fight in this team which you had a bit of a worry about a week ago, but if I'd seen Southampton or Ipswich on the end of that yesterday I'd be quite encouraged to be honest being that hammered.

 

Refereeing does deserve a mention though.

[Weller Wing]

Goalkeeper apart,  we're the worst side in the league with the most useless manager that seems to make the worst team selections and in game management. 

Battling won't save us.

Terrible result yesterday as they'll somehow find positives when really we were out of our depth and got totally battered.

Expect it there but even Everton outplayed us at home.

[inckley fox]

5 hours ago, justfoxes said:

Totally agree with you Mads was amazing kept the cricket score down definitely MOTM, as for Coopers decisions tactics and Subs we’re done for in this league if the powers to be think he’s doing a great job we need to get rid of him sooner rather than later !

The subs were plain bizarre. Four subs from 88 onwards, and we turn a great point into a 4-2 loss! When I saw El Khanouss and Reid I thought that they weren't at all what we needed to see out a point. 

 

I don't, in all honesty, think that they were a critical factor, in the event. But they were odd enough to raise questions where there might not have been too many questions asked.

 

And I do wonder whether the absence of changes on 75-80 minutes might have been more of a factor than the changes we did make. Buonnonote was flagging for several minutes before the change. Mavididi was working hard but struggling to impact. Vardy is 37. We could have changed the attacking three out (but not for BDCR or Bilal) quite easily to freshen up our outlets.