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Parafox

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By Parafox, in General Chat

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blabyboy

blabyboy

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sampson said:

There were people in this very forum arguing Trump was “the candidate of peace”  during the election campaign. Not even sure who they were trying to convince. Setting fire to the institutions, checks and balances that were created after WW2 at both national and international level to help stop authoritarianism and the constant threat of both economic and military action against multiple countries doesn’t feel like how you go about creating peace to me.

 

What is going to happen to those who don’t want to leave Gaza as it’s their home in Trump’s plan, forcefully arrest them and deport them from their own country?

I guess the question for me is.... was there peace in the equilibrium that is being upset now?

.

.

looking around, I would say "no", and technically he hasn't started a war... yet.

 

He's asking questions and offering opinions which ppl diagree with sure, but any World leader is going to have the same problems when they ask they same types of questions... at least he is talking about Gaza rather then letting it drift off the news agenda.

Do you believe that he is really is going to deport all the residents from Gaza?

* NOTE: I am merely asking the question for debate, I do not endorse or condone any of Trump's utterances, but I think it's useful to look at the reality of situations and ask the 'What If?' questions.

  • Like 2
Lionator

Lionator

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sampson said:

There were people in this very forum arguing Trump was “the candidate of peace”  during the election campaign. Not even sure who they were trying to convince. Setting fire to the institutions, checks and balances that were created after WW2 at both national and international level to help stop authoritarianism and the constant threat of both economic and military action against multiple countries doesn’t feel like how you go about creating peace to me.

 

What is going to happen to those who don’t want to leave Gaza as it’s their home in Trump’s plan, forcefully arrest them and deport them from their own country?

Well I guess there’s two things at play here. Currently there is a ceasefire in Gaza so technically he has achieved some level of peace and stopped people from dying (given most people have indicated it was his man Witkoff that brokered the deal). 

 

Your second point is also correct, and I highly highly doubt that he’s going to actually send the US military to Gaza to do this. So there’s very likely something else at play. I’ve seen some speculate that this is all a ruse to get Saudi Arabia to the table to normalise their relations with Israel, which would be a very Trump way of getting that to happen. Maybe I’m just in denial because the forced removal and ethnic cleansing of Gaza is too sickening to even consider. 

Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Hasn't that always been the case... or rather over in the shadier areas of a pub or the car park...

 

When I used to work in the Blaby Co-Op we had ppl coming in nicking bacon and the sozzies fairly regularly who we then saw nipping into the Egyptian Queen with a bag over their shoulder.  It often got written off as Wastage, police not interested unless you had the tea leaf held on site... and this was in the late 80's and 90's.

Indeed, but this is further up the chain. Bit of difference to smuggling in low quality, dubiously sourced, meat to filtched flitch from fleet-fingered Frank.

Edited by Trav Le Bleu
  • Like 2
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Back in 2024, you could Google "Project 2025" and see it unfolding.

 

Trump did say in the run-up to the Election that he knew who he could trust, who he could not and where they needed to make changes asap. He obviously did learn a few things in his first term which he is applying with relish now.

Exactly.

 

And, purely for the record, that's not a good thing.

 

Not good for anyone outside very specific groups short term, and not good for anyone at all long term.

 

11 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

I guess the question for me is.... was there peace in the equilibrium that is being upset now?

.

.

looking around, I would say "no", and technically he hasn't started a war... yet.

 

He's asking questions and offering opinions which ppl diagree with sure, but any World leader is going to have the same problems when they ask they same types of questions... at least he is talking about Gaza rather then letting it drift off the news agenda.

Do you believe that he is really is going to deport all the residents from Gaza?

* NOTE: I am merely asking the question for debate, I do not endorse or condone any of Trump's utterances, but I think it's useful to look at the reality of situations and ask the 'What If?' questions.

I'm not sure where the man has earned the benefit of any doubt whatsoever and the upheaval is barely beginning, but fair enough.

  • Like 1
jgtuk

jgtuk

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, blabyboy said:

Hasn't that always been the case... or rather over in the shadier areas of a pub or the car park...

 

When I used to work in the Blaby Co-Op we had ppl coming in nicking bacon and the sozzies fairly regularly who we then saw nipping into the Egyptian Queen with a bag over their shoulder.  It often got written off as Wastage, police not interested unless you had the tea leaf held on site... and this was in the late 80's and 90's.

This is meat smuggled in though, no food standards checks. 
 

@Trav Le Bleu beat me to it 

Edited by jgtuk
Late to the party
  • Like 1
FoxesDeb

FoxesDeb

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

Lol clearly I was just messing about but that's my point the guy is a nutcase. 

I saw him referred to as Mango Mussolini earlier, I would have smiled more if he wasn't actually crazy

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Lionator said:

Well I guess there’s two things at play here. Currently there is a ceasefire in Gaza so technically he has achieved some level of peace and stopped people from dying (given most people have indicated it was his man Witkoff that brokered the deal). 

 

Your second point is also correct, and I highly highly doubt that he’s going to actually send the US military to Gaza to do this. So there’s very likely something else at play. I’ve seen some speculate that this is all a ruse to get Saudi Arabia to the table to normalise their relations with Israel, which would be a very Trump way of getting that to happen. Maybe I’m just in denial because the forced removal and ethnic cleansing of Gaza is too sickening to even consider. 

But "everyone loves the idea" he said.

 

What's not to love?

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

But "everyone loves the idea" he said.

 

What's not to love?

Those who see certain groups of people as things will love it.

 

And sadly there appear to be enough of those with power around for this idea to not be immediately seen and rejected as the ethnic cleansing it is.

Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Those who see certain groups of people as things will love it.

 

And sadly there appear to be enough of those with power around for this idea to not be immediately seen and rejected as the ethnic cleansing it is.

I'd err towards him being surrounded by yes-men and lickspittles.

  • Like 1
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I'd err towards him being surrounded by yes-men and lickspittles.

Agreed.

 

But there also has to be a baseline of approval from people out in the world of these rather terrible things for them to be in any way viable.

blabyboy

blabyboy

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Agreed.

 

But there also has to be a baseline of approval from people out in the world of these rather terrible things for them to be in any way viable.

Not really, starting to see more and more countries denouncing the suggestion. I think it is mainly just him and his cabal of yes men who thinks it's viable.

 

You have to remember his M.O. Say lots of sh1t, some of it will stick, make policy based on the sticky sh1t.

blabyboy

blabyboy

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, jgtuk said:

This is meat smuggled in though, no food standards checks. 
 

@Trav Le Bleu beat me to it 

There were checks before? ...as in the same style of checks that aren't being checked in the article you referred to about no checks. 😏

leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Not really, starting to see more and more countries denouncing the suggestion. I think it is mainly just him and his cabal of yes men who thinks it's viable.

 

You have to remember his M.O. Say lots of sh1t, some of it will stick, make policy based on the sticky sh1t.

You may be right, but personally I'm not going to assume slapstick incompetence over malice here when firstly it's rather difficult to tell which it is and secondly the former has the same effect as the latter when applied on an advanced and a widespread scale anyway.

 

The policy decisions of the man are going to needlessly (bloded for emphasis) cost lives, that is obvious. It will just be a question of how many and how many can somehow be prevented.

Parafox

Parafox

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Those who see certain groups of people as things will love it.

 

And sadly there appear to be enough of those with power around for this idea to not be immediately seen and rejected as the ethnic cleansing it is.

 

Is it any wonder BN was smiling and his statement that America (aka Trump) was the greatest ally Israel has ever had.

 

The plan probably will never reach reality. But it clearly is BN's dream come true if it did.

 

Get rid of Palestine/Gaza via Trump and BN has no case to answer. Win win for him.

 

But, Trump being Trump, there has to be something in it for him. The question is, what.

Edited by Parafox
  • Like 1
leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

Is it any wonder BN was smiling and his statement that America (aka Trump) was the greatest ally Israel has ever had.

 

The plan probably will never reach reality. But it clearly is BN's dream come true if it did.

 

Get rid of Palestine/Gaza via Trump and BN has no case to answer. Win win for him.

 

But, Trump being Trump, there has to be something in it for him. The question is, what.

Building contracting and property rights in the redeveloped area once the ethnic cleansing is done and the Israeli settlers move into their new "resort". The big payoff.

  • Thanks 1
Parafox

Parafox

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Building contracting and property rights in the redeveloped area once the ethnic cleansing is done and the Israeli settlers move into their new "resort". The big payoff.

 

This.

 

Bastard.

blabyboy

blabyboy

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Building contracting and property rights in the redeveloped area once the ethnic cleansing is done and the Israeli settlers move into their new "resort". The big payoff.

I would also be amazed if they did not somehow land at least part of the bill back onto the Palestinian state in the form of loans that would take years to pay off and effectively hold the country in hock to the US and Israel.

 

It's worked for China and Russia and for the U.S before 

Lionator

Lionator

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Parafox said:

 

Is it any wonder BN was smiling and his statement that America (aka Trump) was the greatest ally Israel has ever had.

 

The plan probably will never reach reality. But it clearly is BN's dream come true if it did.

 

Get rid of Palestine/Gaza via Trump and BN has no case to answer. Win win for him.

 

But, Trump being Trump, there has to be something in it for him. The question is, what.

Having read some reactions today, it seems somewhat likely that it’s to strong arm Bin Salman to ‘normalise’ relations with Israel without meeting Saudi’s minimal expectations for this aka complete deoccupation of the West Bank and reparations in Gaza. 

jgtuk

jgtuk

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, kenny said:

Presumably there were no checks at all when we were in the EU. 

 

1 hour ago, blabyboy said:

There were checks before? ...as in the same style of checks that aren't being checked in the article you referred to about no checks. 😏

I presume so, just going on what the article says. 
 

“Under the post-Brexit system, checks on commercial vehicles do not take place at Dover itself.

Instead, drivers are ordered to travel 22 miles (35km) away to a border control post at Sevington.

But critics have warned that many lorries are simply failing to turn up for the checks, due to a lack of enforcement.”

 

 

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