Will Alves - Loan to Cardiff City

[An Away Move]

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Whilst I don't disagree with you, being surrounded by great players helps.

 

 

Agree. I reckon Alves would shine in that team and would probably be badly exposed in ours currently. 

[An Away Move]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Those two arsenal boys are likely generational talents.  Probably see them picked by Tuchel and play in the next WC. They’re light years ahead of will atm. 

Could be the same narrative for Will. You can only know by giving the lad an actual chance. 

[st albans fox]

Just now, An Away Move said:

Could be the same narrative for Will. You can only know by giving the lad an actual chance. 

Those two boys are in arsenals first team squad cos they gave the coach no option but to pick them - they are just miles better than the other U21 players.(even though they’re 17 and 18).   Will is decent when he plays U21 but you wouldn’t say that he looks way too good to be asked to play that level.  He may have been pre ACL but he hasn’t looked that way since. 

[OntarioFox]

1 hour ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Why are we weakening our squad?

LCFC is a social experiment to see the breaking point of the human mind

[funkyrobot]

3 hours ago, Viva said:

Maybe he’s just not as good as people hope yet? Classic case of anybody not playing in a losing team seem better than what they are. 

We don’t really know because he’s not getting a chance. The point is, he’s not likely to be any worse than what we are playing in Ayew, BDCR, McAteer etc. For Cardiff to want him shows they must see a player that can help them stave off relegation in The Championship.
 

Currently we’ve got a classic case of players playing in a losing team showing us what we already know - that they aren’t good enough to keep us up. 

[Tuna]

3 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Why are we weakening our squad?

Hardly. Made one sub appearance in the league. He's wasting his development here seeing out the season.

[iancognito]

This is the route most of our academy lads should go down. Barnes, KDH, Chilwell, Hamza, Stolarcyk to name but a few all got better by spending time with sides playing twice a week, building their strength and conditioning against bigger players week in week out. The exception is probably Thomas who needed a loan but got thrown in the deep end.

 

The lad will struggle to get game time past BEK and Buonanotte and if we do go down we'll need him physically bigger than he looks right now.

[funkyrobot]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Those two boys are in arsenals first team squad cos they gave the coach no option but to pick them - they are just miles better than the other U21 players.(even though they’re 17 and 18).   Will is decent when he plays U21 but you wouldn’t say that he looks way too good to be asked to play that level.  He may have been pre ACL but he hasn’t looked that way since. 

He’s not in the U21’s this year as he’s with the first team squad now. He’s in the same position as the Arsenal lads, difference is Arteta often plays youth over the older players. RVN does the opposite (as did Cooper.) 

[funkyrobot]

5 minutes ago, iancognito said:

This is the route most of our academy lads should go down. Barnes, KDH, Chilwell, Hamza, Stolarcyk to name but a few all got better by spending time with sides playing twice a week, building their strength and conditioning against bigger players week in week out. The exception is probably Thomas who needed a loan but got thrown in the deep end.

 

The lad will struggle to get game time past BEK and Buonanotte and if we do go down we'll need him physically bigger than he looks right now.

In an interview RVN stated that he sees Alves as a winger (I don’t agree) so he’s competing for game time with Mavididi, Ayew, BDCR and K-Mac rather than the number 10’s. Although I think he’s naturally more of a 10 I’d still rather have Alves in that option of four wingers at the expense of one of the latter 3 I’ve listed! 

[Grebfromgrebland]

1 hour ago, Tuna said:

Hardly. Made one sub appearance in the league. He's wasting his development here seeing out the season.

Still one less body we can use. Facundo could be off we might need him

[Viva]

7 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

We don’t really know because he’s not getting a chance. The point is, he’s not likely to be any worse than what we are playing in Ayew, BDCR, McAteer etc. For Cardiff to want him shows they must see a player that can help them stave off relegation in The Championship.
 

Currently we’ve got a classic case of players playing in a losing team showing us what we already know - that they aren’t good enough to keep us up. 

People were wanting Braybrooke to be given a chance too. He went to Dundee and couldn’t even get a kick there.
Just because we are struggling, it still doesn’t mean Alves is a better player than McAteer or Ayew.  

[funkyrobot]

5 minutes ago, Viva said:

People were wanting Braybrooke to be given a chance too. He went to Dundee and couldn’t even get a kick there.
Just because we are struggling, it still doesn’t mean Alves is a better player than McAteer or Ayew.  

But when those players are failing and no signings are being made, it makes little sense to rid ourselves of a potential game changer. As I say, Cardiff are willing to take a punt on him helping fight relegation. We’d rather not even give him a go.  For me he would’ve been in the first 11 against Man U in the cup. It’s blatantly obvious that Ayew, McAteer, BDCR aren’t going to keep us up. None have the ability to beat a man. Alves has that ability. 

[Viva]

Just now, funkyrobot said:

But when those players are failing and no signings are being made, it makes little sense to rid ourselves of a potential game changer. As I say, Cardiff are willing to take a punt on him helping fight relegation. We’d rather not even give him a go.  For me he would’ve been in the first 11 against Man U in the cup. It’s blatantly obvious that Ayew, McAteer, BDCR aren’t going to keep us up. None have the ability to beat a man. Alves has that ability. 

Cardiff are playing in a league that is massively inferior to the league we are in. It’s not comparable. 
Enzo, Cooper, Ruud all saw Alves every day in training and didn’t play him. We are now struggling and in desperate need of points. Do you really think Ruud would send him away if he thought he was ready or had the quality to play in the Premier League? 
He obviously hasn’t shown the required level yet and therefore needs to gain some experience at a much lower level. 

[st albans fox]

8 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

He’s not in the U21’s this year as he’s with the first team squad now. He’s in the same position as the Arsenal lads, difference is Arteta often plays youth over the older players. RVN does the opposite (as did Cooper.) 

There are plenty that arteta doesn’t play 

nwanieri played for the first team at 15 - he’s an exceptional player.  Lewis-skelley was bookmarked some time ago as being ready and more than able. 

alves was with the first team squad because they’ve decided it’s best for his development - but he clearly hasn’t shown enough in training to gain the trust of either cooper ot RVN that hes up to it.  Now he may do at Cardiff if the deal goes through. 
 

as with Sammi, we are yet to see evidence that they’ve come through their injuries at the same levels that they were before.   sad but that’s how it seems for now.  without the ACL’s we may have seen both playing first team football by now. 

[funkyrobot]

Just now, st albans fox said:

There are plenty that arteta doesn’t play 

nwanieri played for the first team at 15 - he’s an exceptional player.  Lewis-skelley was bookmarked some time ago as being ready and more than able. 

alves was with the first team squad because they’ve decided it’s best for his development - but he clearly hasn’t shown enough in training to gain the trust of either cooper ot RVN that hes up to it.  Now he may do at Cardiff if the deal goes through. 
 

as with Sammi, we are yet to see evidence that they’ve come through their injuries at the same levels that they were before.   sad but that’s how it seems for now.  without the ACL’s we may have seen both playing first team football by now. 

I’d genuinely rather be relegated with Alves, playing in the first team than be relegated playing with Ayew, BDCR etc. Those two definitely aren’t going to save us, so why keep repeating this embarrassment week in and week out. Play some of the kids like Alves, like Monga. 

[coolhandfox]

4 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

I’d genuinely rather be relegated with Alves, playing in the first team than be relegated playing with Ayew, BDCR etc. Those two definitely aren’t going to save us, so why keep repeating this embarrassment week in and week out. Play some of the kids like Alves, like Monga. 

I'd rather Alves get use to the Championship and get some confidence and be ready for next year.

 

Monga isn't going to play in the until we can secure him on a contract.

 

 

[funkyrobot]

15 minutes ago, Viva said:

Cardiff are playing in a league that is massively inferior to the league we are in. It’s not comparable. 
Enzo, Cooper, Ruud all saw Alves every day in training and didn’t play him. We are now struggling and in desperate need of points. Do you really think Ruud would send him away if he thought he was ready or had the quality to play in the Premier League? 
He obviously hasn’t shown the required level yet and therefore needs to gain some experience at a much lower level. 

I don’t trust the judgement of Cooper and I’m losing all trust in RVN’s judgement too. Cooper thought Skipp, BDCR, Ayew, Edouard had the quality and that’s visibly not the case. RVN sticks with some of those despite being let down by their ability and their effort! Enzo didn’t play him because we had a better squad available in The Championship than we do now (thanks Rudkin) and because he was still recovering from his knee. 

[funkyrobot]

2 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I'd rather Alves get use to the Championship and get some confidence and be ready for next year.

 

Monga isn't going to play in the until we can secure him on a contract.

 

 

I’d rather Alves got experience at the highest level possible and be ready for next year irrespective of what league we are in. 

[Viva]

1 minute ago, funkyrobot said:

I don’t trust the judgement of Cooper and I’m losing all trust in RVN’s judgement too. Cooper thought Skipp, BDCR, Ayew, Edouard had the quality and that’s visibly not the case. RVN sticks with some of those despite being let down by their ability and their effort! Enzo didn’t play him because we had a better squad available in The Championship than we do now (thanks Rudkin) and because he was still recovering from his knee. 

Right, just for an example, let’s assume maybe that Kristiansen and Thomas get the better of Alves in training. Would that make you want to chuck Alves in against much better defenders, or maybe make you think he’s not quite ready for that yet? 
We are not in the training pitch so can’t give you that answer, but the people that make the decisions are. 

[coolhandfox]

5 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

I’d rather Alves got experience at the highest level possible and be ready for next year irrespective of what league we are in. 

Player development isn't about play at the highest level available it's about play at the right one.

 

Just don't think he's ready for the PL, he may not be ready for the Championship.

 

All our success academy products had spells on loan at lower leagues Chilwell, Barnes and KDH.

[Tommy Fresh]

52 minutes ago, Viva said:

People were wanting Braybrooke to be given a chance too. He went to Dundee and couldn’t even get a kick there.
Just because we are struggling, it still doesn’t mean Alves is a better player than McAteer or Ayew.  

 

4 minutes ago, Viva said:

Right, just for an example, let’s assume maybe that Kristiansen and Thomas get the better of Alves in training. Would that make you want to chuck Alves in against much better defenders, or maybe make you think he’s not quite ready for that yet? 
We are not in the training pitch so can’t give you that answer, but the people that make the decisions are. 

Braybrooke not getting a look in at Dundee doesn't mean he couldn't make a difference for us, it's not as simple as he's not played so mustn't be good enough.

 

Also you're placing a lot of emphasis on training, heard quite a lot of ex pros talk about certain players being shit or not caring that much during the week but then being unplayable during matches.

[Viva]

11 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

 

Braybrooke not getting a look in at Dundee doesn't mean he couldn't make a difference for us, it's not as simple as he's not played so mustn't be good enough.

 

Also you're placing a lot of emphasis on training, heard quite a lot of ex pros talk about certain players being shit or not caring that much during the week but then being unplayable during matches.

I’d say in 9 cases out of 10 it’s as simple as that for Braybrooke. You don’t perform well enough for Dundee, in most cases that wouldn’t mean you are ready to start in the Premier League. 
 

Those players that might not do it in training have probably proven themselves either at that club or at their previous clubs.
Alves hasn’t proved anything.

[funkyrobot]

27 minutes ago, Viva said:

Right, just for an example, let’s assume maybe that Kristiansen and Thomas get the better of Alves in training. Would that make you want to chuck Alves in against much better defenders, or maybe make you think he’s not quite ready for that yet? 
We are not in the training pitch so can’t give you that answer, but the people that make the decisions are. 

I don’t trust the people that make the decisions as over the last few years they’ve got the majority wrong tbh. I’m not sure loaning out Alves to a team in disarray that just got stuffed 7-0 is going to help his development much more than playing him for his parent club also in disarray!
 

I guess instead of taking a punt on youth, we’ll just keep playing old Jordan Ayew, dribbling backwards, falling over and giving up on tracking back. 

[Ric Flair]

11 minutes ago, Viva said:

I’d say in 9 cases out of 10 it’s as simple as that for Braybrooke. You don’t perform well enough for Dundee, in most cases that wouldn’t mean you are ready to start in the Premier League. 
 

Those players that might not do it in training have probably proven themselves either at that club or at their previous clubs.
Alves hasn’t proved anything.

McAteer barely got a sniff at Forest Green Rovers in League Two. 6 months later he was starting in the Championship for us. We can debate individual cases but the culture at this club does not currently promote the confidence and belief of blooding academy players.

 

 

[Viva]

3 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

I don’t trust the people that make the decisions as over the last few years they’ve got the majority wrong tbh. I’m not sure loaning out Alves to a team in disarray that just got stuffed 7-0 is going to help his development much more than playing him for his parent club also in disarray!
 

I guess instead of taking a punt on youth, we’ll just keep playing old Jordan Ayew, dribbling backwards, falling over and giving up on tracking back. 

The simple difference is we are up against world class defenders and Cardiff aren’t.