Plan to become well run again.

[Skidmark]

Put a proper structure in place at the top underneath top. 

 

It's that simple. Choose football minded people, ship out those responsible for farces like Rudkin and Whelan. 

 

 

[Chelmofox]

When it comes to contracts we have to play the market. Its no good saying 'pay them £10k a week and only give them bonuses' when even the likes of Palace will pay Eduoard 90k a week. You simply won't sign anyone.  Right now, we are not playing in Crystal Palaces market, but the principle is the same. The market is dominated by shitty agents, player power and PSR dictating longer amortised contracts. Any of these PL teams paying big money can find themselves where we are if it goes wrong. Arguably, Spurs, West Ham and Man U have got it horribly wrong but just not as bad as we did, but they are suffering from poor recruitment and big wages.

 

I like to think we got caught out going for top 4. By caught out, i think everyone bought into Brendan's 'Rough Diamond' approach and paid over the odds for players they thought could be good enough if the great coach () could work his magic. We are still paying the price for that recruitment.

 

We have to accept that to be successful with both recruitment and the academy, we have to be a feeder club and be seen as a good feeder club, which we aren't really at the moment. Players like Macallister, Trossard, Cucurella and Caicedo (to name a few), didn't go to Brighton for the trappings of success. They went because it was the best route to a bigger club and bigger wages. 

 

It's a cliche, but a reset is needed and i would like to see that in the board as well. I'd like to see a more data driven approach and one that bucks the current trend that uses the Academy more and ensuring recruitment is based around resale. No more buying old 'leaders' on big wages, or keeping people for longer than we should (Vardy, Ndidi and Vesty). Identify the next generation of leaders and nurture them.  We can still play the market doing this, we just have to admit that we aren't going to be a top 4 club again (unless we can pull a Forest style season together, but i think they are going to miss out on that).

 

 

[pmcla26]

6 hours ago, Sooper Steve's shin said:

It all falls apart as soon as the Board follows point 1 and refuses to pay a star player over the cap. Fans would go mad. Same for most of the points, really - good in theory but not rooted in the reality of a competitive business. 

We would have lost Kasper, Mahrez and Vardy in addition to Kante after winning the league if we had this method. Never would have signed Tielemans permanently, either. 

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

We would have lost Kasper, Mahrez and Vardy in addition to Kante after winning the league if we had this method. Never would have signed Tielemans permanently, either. 

I remember when Tielemans had a purple patch (scoring bangers frequently) that many on here would say 'just write the cheque and pay him what he wants'. We cant have it both ways, but i think everything knows that our approach to recruitment needs to change.

Edited Tuesday at 11:35 by Chelmofox

[Pliskin]

They need to look back to the structure of the club int he early years, because that’s what made us a success. 

[CrispinLA in Texas]

12 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

They need to look back to the structure of the club int he early years, because that’s what made us a success. 

Virtually impossible for them, it would mean offering Steve Walsh and Nigel Pearson some kind of senior advisory rule at the club. And can't see that happening with Rudkin running the show

[Pliskin]

3 minutes ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

Virtually impossible for them, it would mean offering Steve Walsh and Nigel Pearson some kind of senior advisory rule at the club. And can't see that happening with Rudkin running the show

Not necessarily, they just need to look at what we had as a club then, and start to put those elements back in. What Nigel and his team instilled has been replicated elsewhere. But, I think they’re clueless….. they wouldn’t know how, so like you say they would need to bring back old guard in to implement it.

[Winstonthedog]

14 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Welease Wudkin 

Is that you Jonathan Woss

[Winstonthedog]

45 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

They need to look back to the structure of the club int he early years, because that’s what made us a success. 

Doubt they will have anybody with a football brain and opposes the hierarchy of Rudkin and Whelan.... only yes men need apply 

[HybridFox]

Sell the club. The only clean slate we'd get

[Chrysalis]

21 hours ago, Terraloon said:

Sorry but I find this type of discussion futile for a variety of reasons but above all you can’t under estimate the power the players have in all this.

 

For instance the suggestion that you can put a player who refuses to sign a new contract onto a “ transfer list” and in effect consign them to the reserves is nothing more than folly. Players will simply know that if they are treated in such a way they will apply to the FA at seasons end to have their contract cancelled or just as likely they will leave on a Webster.

 

The suggestion a a club cap is fine in theory but what happens if one of the real gems you uncover wants to stay but won’t sign his new deal do you consign them to the reserves to see them walk for free ? 

Player identification and trading  is an incredibly complex process fraught with risks.
 

Players loose form, get injured have mental issues the same as any other employee but because of FIFAs rules you can’t sack them, can’t force them to move to another club in effect you sign them and keep them till either their contract runs out or the player decides to move on. Very few clubs, if any, will be prepared to consign their best players ( because that’s what they are if you want them to sign extensions to their contracts) to the reserves.

 

Of course LCFC want to unearth the best players, develop academy players work within a defined budget but so do  just about every other club who don’t have unlimited resources but the key sorry isn’t just about what you spend it’s about what you earn and there LCFC trails probably circa 75% of the current PL clubs and unfortunately I can’t see how a club which yes has won a few things over the last few years who  hasn’t grown its income streams  will get out of this promotion/ relegation cycle . LCFC  has relied , like many clubs who usually end up in the bottom half of the PL , far too heavily on TV monies. 
 

It is hard to see how any players recruited for the 25/26 season will be on close to £45k a week indeed I am thinking that it’s quite possible that the problems and consequences of the excesses going back to 21/22 are going to bite big time.

 

I can’t see any way that  there won’t be an imposed business plan from the EFL  which will cause untold problems when it comes to getting in any players let alone players that have other viable options who would make a real difference .

 

Clubs relegated  need to get promotion in the following season put quite simply  the benefit of parachute payments is obviously the most lucrative in year one but I am absolutely convinced that next season is going to be the most challenging with the club needing to generate circa £70 million in the transfer market before 30/6 and know that they can’t realistically increase the sums amortised.

 

Sadly I see a very difficult few years and the challenge will be trying to identify and recruit from a limited pool and if you add in almost unique approach to how you manage players then sorry I can’t see anything else other than failure

 

If its not possible then how was most of the EPL with a lower wage bill than us when we got relegated?  With a better scouting system we have the luxury of saying no to players who just want too much.  Otherwise the tide turns and our desperation makes us over pay.  The way forward is a performance incentivised data driven system, which more and more clubs are gradually adopting.

 

A lot is also where the players are recruited from, buy 25+ year old players from the EPL yes salary will be high, buy 20 year old from league one, or French 2nd division you could offer 10k a week and its an increase, 20k a week is like they won the jackpot.

 

Top tier DoF - How is 40k a week.

Player - umm Leeds offered me 60k mate, , just wanted to say its a pleasure to meet you.

Top tier DoF - Yeah but Leeds dont have my contacts, and they not in the top 5 of the EPL, play for us and within a few years , you will be getting scouted by the giants in world football and I can get you moves there on 200k a week.  Here is proof from all of my previous transfers, (lists a bunch of players).  So you can be at Leeds for the rest of your career for 60k, or take a few years with us, and be at Real Madrid before you 25.  Plus you get to meet me every week if you want if you sign.

Player - oh yeah,. where do I sign dude.

Agent - I know you had a better offer, but he got **** a move to barca, **** a move to real, *** and *** are both at liverpool, all on triple the money you asking for, its just a few years, keep your head down and play well, he is a magician trust me.

 

Same negotiation Rudkin.

 

Rudkin - Can offer you 100k.

Player - Leeds offered me 60k.  Who are you by the way.

Rudkin - Umm never mind that, 120k , done deal?

Player - chill dude, just I never heard of you.

Rudkin - dammit!!! slamming the table, why is every player obsessed with my status in the game, is it such a big deal I dont know anyone.  Please if you dont mention it again 150k.

Player - done.

Agent - told you it would work, works every time with this guy, he gets mad when you mention no one knows who he is.

Edited Wednesday at 05:06 by Chrysalis

[Leeds Fox]

Let’s give Nicky Summerbee and Billy McKinkey a call. They would just about fit into the proposed plans by the OP. 

[sdb]

We should look at teams like Brighton and Brentford for inspiration. And try not to get too depressed when realising that basically means going back to where we were 10 years ago, when teams used us as a model. 

 

In short, we need to stop buying crap players and appointing crap managers, for excessive fees and on excessive contracts. But it's hard to imagine anything changing.

[Claudio Fannieri]

I do wonder if the decision makers at the club, Top, Rudkin, Whelan, Glover and the manager discuss player valuations and maximum wage caps for transfer targets, because it all seems so scattergun and disconnected  

 

I recall the story of Islam Slimani where Steve Walsh said do not pay anymore than £15m for Rudders to go out and spend double that on the player. 
 

it does make me wonder if this is still the case, £20m + on Skipp, £100k per week to Coady, £80k per week to Soumare and Daka, there are countless examples of where we have seemingly overpaid on fees and/or wages to secure a player at almost any cost and you have to question how much joined up thinking is going into our negotiations or is Rudkin just left to negotiate and land targets with no guidance from elsewhere as to placing ceilings on valuations etc and prioritising how we best spend the budget we have. 
 

Which is why we always get to January and realise the cupboard is bare and we are then floundering around in June to sell a player to try and recover our PSR position. It’s like we are literally winging it. 

[Kasey Keller]

player recruitment has been absolute shite since Steve Walsh left.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

23 hours ago, Skidmark said:

Put a proper structure in place at the top underneath top. 

 

It's that simple. Choose football minded people, ship out those responsible for farces like Rudkin and Whelan. 

 

 

I listened to Jonathan Northcroft on the BLSB pod recently and he says Nigel Pearson was more like a DoF and a manager. He built the backroom structures, or at least was integral to them, that were so successful. I’ve never been more convinced that we should go heaven and earth to get him back as a defined DoF, or if he doesn’t want that then a consultant or in the boardroom -

just something where he can direct and oversee building the structures and getting the right people back given that most have left over the years. Perhaps alongside Nigel we’d also need someone who knows the modern game as well, just to compliment the wily old Fox that Nige is.

[Chrysalis]

3 hours ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

I do wonder if the decision makers at the club, Top, Rudkin, Whelan, Glover and the manager discuss player valuations and maximum wage caps for transfer targets, because it all seems so scattergun and disconnected  

 

I recall the story of Islam Slimani where Steve Walsh said do not pay anymore than £15m for Rudders to go out and spend double that on the player. 
 

it does make me wonder if this is still the case, £20m + on Skipp, £100k per week to Coady, £80k per week to Soumare and Daka, there are countless examples of where we have seemingly overpaid on fees and/or wages to secure a player at almost any cost and you have to question how much joined up thinking is going into our negotiations or is Rudkin just left to negotiate and land targets with no guidance from elsewhere as to placing ceilings on valuations etc and prioritising how we best spend the budget we have. 
 

Which is why we always get to January and realise the cupboard is bare and we are then floundering around in June to sell a player to try and recover our PSR position. It’s like we are literally winging it. 

Another post in a different thread I think summed it up well, in short no.

[Noahfence]

How many decisions that have worked out well have basically come down to them being lucky? 

[Chelmofox]

I suggest a 2 point plan.

 

• Only make good decisions
• Stop making bad decisions

 

We do have a habit of overcomplicating things.

[LCFCCHRIS]

4 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

Let’s give Nicky Summerbee and Billy McKinkey a call. They would just about fit into the proposed plans by the OP. 

 

[Terraloon]

13 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

If its not possible then how was most of the EPL with a lower wage bill than us when we got relegated?  With a better scouting system we have the luxury of saying no to players who just want too much.  Otherwise the tide turns and our desperation makes us over pay.  The way forward is a performance incentivised data driven system, which more and more clubs are gradually adopting.

 

A lot is also where the players are recruited from, buy 25+ year old players from the EPL yes salary will be high, buy 20 year old from league one, or French 2nd division you could offer 10k a week and its an increase, 20k a week is like they won the jackpot.

 

Top tier DoF - How is 40k a week.

Player - umm Leeds offered me 60k mate, , just wanted to say its a pleasure to meet you.

Top tier DoF - Yeah but Leeds dont have my contacts, and they not in the top 5 of the EPL, play for us and within a few years , you will be getting scouted by the giants in world football and I can get you moves there on 200k a week.  Here is proof from all of my previous transfers, (lists a bunch of players).  So you can be at Leeds for the rest of your career for 60k, or take a few years with us, and be at Real Madrid before you 25.  Plus you get to meet me every week if you want if you sign.

Player - oh yeah,. where do I sign dude.

Agent - I know you had a better offer, but he got **** a move to barca, **** a move to real, *** and *** are both at liverpool, all on triple the money you asking for, its just a few years, keep your head down and play well, he is a magician trust me.

 

Same negotiation Rudkin.

 

Rudkin - Can offer you 100k.

Player - Leeds offered me 60k.  Who are you by the way.

Rudkin - Umm never mind that, 120k , done deal?

Player - chill dude, just I never heard of you.

Rudkin - dammit!!! slamming the table, why is every player obsessed with my status in the game, is it such a big deal I dont know anyone.  Please if you dont mention it again 150k.

Player - done.

Agent - told you it would work, works every time with this guy, he gets mad when you mention no one knows who he is

No one is suggesting that Rudkin has done a top quality job nor can the sort of money being paid currently be sustained 

 

 

If we are looking at costs then yes there has to be a radical re think but the suggestion that you can somehow treat the players in a similar way to how the were “ managed “ 10-20-30 years ago is simply not realistic.

 

A modern scouting and data driven recruitment regime is a significant drain financially and as I keep pointing out the excesses of the last few years are going to significantly impact going forward.The club can’t afford a two year stay in the Championship but almost certainly any benefit that should be gained by way of parachute payments will be mitigated and them some from the storm that brewing FfP wise.

 

Two years ago the relegated squad was favourites for an instant return to the PL . What is vastly different this time is that the club is staring down the barrel because for years it has been spending way above its means . Of course the wages as disclosed are far too high but you can’t just look at the sums in the accounts and gain perspective without looking at the number of staff employed. LCFC have circa 400 staff who aren’t players add to that on a match day employs around 500 casual staff.

 

The club simply can’t spend money it isn’t close to generating there has to be a root and branch review and yes wages of players need to be reduced but look at the accounts money is bleeding everywhere and when you think that equivalent close to 50% of total game receipts generated is spent servicing debt and close to 60% of all other income streams is spent on other operating costs.

If the recruitment is focussed on young players plying their trade in say French Div 2 because they are cheap and are signing on the hope they develop then be prepared for either a long stay in the Championship or possibly even further relegation.

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 18:07 by Terraloon

[coolhandfox]

I think we will see a change this summer......

[Nolucklcfc]

We can start by not letting a man make football decisions who doesn’t understand much about football …