Sean Dyche

[kingfox]

32 minutes ago, LFox99 said:

Would have taken him in the summer but not now. 

You just know that there is no chance Monga/ Evans/ Alves/ Nelson will get any significant minutes under him because he has and will always prefer experience. 

As much as I’ve bashed him regarding experienced squads, it’s not like he’s completely disregarded younger players, to say he relies on experience alone is just a false statement.

 

Branthwaite was 20/21 years old when Dyche gave him a chance. Tarkowski was 23 when Dyche signed him for Burnley. Collins was 20 when Dyche signed him for Burnley. 
 

I’d be nervous of how he’d perceive the likes of Monga and Evans especially, but even though his history of developing younger players is sporadic, I’m willing to admit that history suggests that he doesn’t completely disregard younger talent. 

[SecretPro]

No.

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, kingfox said:

As much as I’ve bashed him regarding experienced squads, it’s not like he’s completely disregarded younger players, to say he relies on experience alone is just a false statement.

 

Branthwaite was 20/21 years old when Dyche gave him a chance. Tarkowski was 23 when Dyche signed him for Burnley. Collins was 20 when Dyche signed him for Burnley. 
 

I’d be nervous of how he’d perceive the likes of Monga and Evans especially, but even though his history of developing younger players is sporadic, I’m willing to admit that history suggests that he doesn’t completely disregard younger talent. 

Branthwaite had a season at PSV before Dyche played him. Tarkowski had played over 100 games for Oldham & Brentford. Collins had done nearly 40 for Stoke. 

 

He would be exactly like our youth policy is now - ie. these players need to do a season or two elsewhere before Dyche would play them. 

[Nolucklcfc]

Understandably people want whoever the new manager is to bring through the academy lads considering it’s a bit of a golden generation. Then we are probably looking at keeping Ruud because he’s the only manager (maybe bar Brendan) that’s given minutes (not enough) to our young lads. Problem is, you then completely sacrifice results because Ruud is shit. Finding a manager that can do both is key. 

[HankMarvin]

4 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Branthwaite had a season at PSV before Dyche played him. Tarkowski had played over 100 games for Oldham & Brentford. Collins had done nearly 40 for Stoke. 

 

He would be exactly like our youth policy is now - ie. these players need to do a season or two elsewhere before Dyche would play them. 

Or maybe if he was at a club that produced the talent he would play them if they were ready for first team football.

I didn’t hear many people moaning about the likes of Chillwell, Harvey Barnes and KDH under various managers gaining experience on loan. It’s generally what happens to youth prospects. It’s only because the squad is in dire need of freshening up that people are flapping about youngsters being played. 
I don’t remember the same scrutiny on other managers in the past.

[The_77]

That RvN seems so personally invested in Jeremy Monga and that contract situation makes me think he’s preparing to stay another season.

[HankMarvin]

10 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

Then we are probably looking at keeping Ruud because he’s the only manager (maybe bar Brendan) that’s given minutes (not enough) to our young lads. Problem is, you then completely sacrifice results because Ruud is shit

Let’s not give him credit for the quickest relegation we have suffered in the top flight, to the point where it doesn’t matter who he starts.

He wasn’t so keen on youth when he walked in the door and results mattered 

[kingfox]

6 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Branthwaite had a season at PSV before Dyche played him. Tarkowski had played over 100 games for Oldham & Brentford. Collins had done nearly 40 for Stoke. 

 

He would be exactly like our youth policy is now - ie. these players need to do a season or two elsewhere before Dyche would play them. 

But the fact is they were all of a pretty young age when Dyche used them. People talk as if he’s addicted to playing two 30+ year olds at centre half, when I’ll even admit that’s just not the case. 
 

Plenty of players go out on loan first before being thrusted into the first team, it’s helped the likes of KDH in the past and Nelson this season. Look at bloody Harry Kane for example, he needed four loan spells before coming the striker he is today. 
 

It doesn’t matter who the manager is, a select few youngsters are always bound to go out on loan, it’s just the nature of football. 

[Pliskin]

2 hours ago, Wink84 said:

In the long term Maresca has done more damage to the club. He implemented a style that's so specific that if the next manager isn't similar then the squad we have, would struggle. Him being poached hindered us so much too.

 

Now I'm not blaming Maresca, but the board. They were caught off guard by him going to Chelsea resulting in this horrendous season. We're in a much worse state than when Maresca arrived.

 

I'm not saying I want Dyche but I understand why the club and some fans would be keen on him. We need to reinvent ourselves. We need players to show some fight and passion again, not just pass pass pass football. I feel Dyche would make us hard to beat and instill some backbone that we need.

 

But I do worry about the progression of our youth. He doesn't have a good record with this. Much of that could be down to not have the right quality to bring into the first team. Where our youth are at a decent level to our current first team. 

 

Style of play won't be fun but it depends what's more important, having a higher chance of getting promoted and staying up. Or someone else that has less of a chance to go up AND stay up. That's the gamble and the trade off. We're in such a position financially that we might have to prioritise going straight back up and build again.

 

Maresca had his flaws, but he did what he was told to do, Top was the one who said to him “I want us to play like Man City”…. So who’s really the one to question? 
 

What was beneficial was Enzo’s personality, people go on about having a manager who took no shit, well he didn’t, he was quite clear what he wanted and what his expectations were, and said multiple times he would clear off if people weren’t buying into it. 
 

Dyche isn’t the only man in football who would set good principles, Ruud arguably does, he’s punished Winks for selfish behaviour, but many on here don’t want Ruud to stay. 
 

I get the idea of trying to build a stable base, but Dyche really isn’t the man to do this, he would build a team capable of a scrap, but it won’t score many goals, and won’t be good to watch. What’s the point in appointing him, to go straight up, to then have to reset the whole project again when he eventually falls on his sword. He’s a vastly limited manager, I’m not saying he’s a poor manager, he just isn’t a good fit for us. The fans would soon grow tired of his boring football, and they would soon get fed up of his constant winging. 
 

I’d much rather we give a Danny Rolh, or Miron Muslic a go, and a chance to build…. Even if it means a season or two in the championship to properly rebuild, not a Dyche fix up, which will eventually fall apart in a few years anyway. 

[ClaphamFox]

8 minutes ago, The_77 said:

That RvN seems so personally invested in Jeremy Monga and that contract situation makes me think he’s preparing to stay another season.

No doubt RVN would stay if given the choice. The fact that the club is still avoiding talking to him about next season means one of two things: 1) They’ve decided to replace him but haven’t told him yet; or 2) They’ve haven’t made a decision yet.

 

If it’s the latter and we beat Ipswich next week and then put in a decent performance against Bournemouth, the club might just give him a another stab at it next season - especially if we’re cutting it fine again with PSR, which it sounds like we may be.

[Phenom]

Only under KP and Rudkin are RVN and Dyche are our top two options

[kingfox]

This is an interview with Dyche from 2022, in it he talks about youth development https://trainingground.guru/podcast/sean-dyche-building-burnley-and-beyond/

 

[Nolucklcfc]

20 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Let’s not give him credit for the quickest relegation we have suffered in the top flight, to the point where it doesn’t matter who he starts.

He wasn’t so keen on youth when he walked in the door and results mattered 

Very true. But unless he’s blatantly lying he is wanting to use the younger lads for the future. Says it in every interview, probably just trying to get the fans onside. 

[Nolucklcfc]

2 minutes ago, kingfox said:

This is an interview with Dyche from 2022, in it he talks about youth development https://trainingground.guru/podcast/sean-dyche-building-burnley-and-beyond/

 

I think this notion that he won’t give any of the young lads a chance is harsh. Obviously we won’t know till he’s here but there’s no guarantees with any manager. 

[indierich06]

34 minutes ago, Nolucklcfc said:

Understandably people want whoever the new manager is to bring through the academy lads considering it’s a bit of a golden generation. Then we are probably looking at keeping Ruud because he’s the only manager (maybe bar Brendan) that’s given minutes (not enough) to our young lads. Problem is, you then completely sacrifice results because Ruud is shit. Finding a manager that can do both is key. 

To be honest there's every chance Monga and Evans are both gone by the end of the summer, which is not inconceivable given the rumours that are flying around about both of them already.

[CosbehFox]

24 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Or maybe if he was at a club that produced the talent he would play them if they were ready for first team football.

I didn’t hear many people moaning about the likes of Chillwell, Harvey Barnes and KDH under various managers gaining experience on loan. It’s generally what happens to youth prospects. It’s only because the squad is in dire need of freshening up that people are flapping about youngsters being played. 
I don’t remember the same scrutiny on other managers in the past.

He’s approximately fifteen years in management and shown zero trend of taking players from the 17/18/19 bracket into first team football. Generally when you have that amount of time at a club it’s become self fulfilling. Young players don’t see the path way, so why join a club managed by Dyche?

 

The same scrunity hasn’t been afforded to managers correct. That’s because for the first time in umpteen years we have numerous players capable of the jump up and therefore you’d think you want a manager whom has a history of taking a risk developing players from that 17-19. Even more so attacking ones given that’s where we are a lot stronger in the academy currently 
 

[CosbehFox]

8 minutes ago, kingfox said:

This is an interview with Dyche from 2022, in it he talks about youth development https://trainingground.guru/podcast/sean-dyche-building-burnley-and-beyond/

 

The sort of soft puff piece managers do when they are out of work trying to get their name about for a job 

[CosbehFox]

5 minutes ago, indierich06 said:

To be honest there's every chance Monga and Evans are both gone by the end of the summer, which is not inconceivable given the rumours that are flying around about both of them already.

In which case we have Motsi, Page and Alves also. Page selected for England under 17s euro squad today and apparently a superb attitude on the lad as well 

[dsr-burnley]

6 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Well, it doesn’t matter if you care or not, the club wants a specific style, so that’s what they will look to achieve. 
 

Has he? I stand to be corrected by @dsr-burnley but I have never known Dyche to be a promoter of youth to the extent we have been? Nor do I recall Burnley having a model of selling home grown assets to then sell on….

 

He did, but he had a squad that suited him, they were scrappers and that where Dyche thrives…. But there’s no long term future with him, what we need is someone with a long term vision, Dyche would change everything about the club, in terms of playing style, and then once his time eventually runs out, we would need another overhaul and restart. 
 

It’s more concerning that Dyche’s track record doesn’t seem to extent beyond being a “fixer upper”. I’m of the opinion we don’t need that, what we need is someone with the capability of presenting a long term plan. Inexperience doesn’t mean you can’t do the job, and neither does experience…. Anyone who suggests Maresca didn’t prove anything is just being facetious, he was exactly what we needed, yes he was stubborn and that probably held us back, but he would have learnt as he has done this season with Chelsea. But he came in and basically said, “I run the show, it’s my way or the highway”…. He proved that you can get things moving in the right direction again fairly quickly. 
 

If Dyche was to come here I’d give him a chance, but I’m extremely dubious about him, and concerned about what his forward planning would be…. I don’t agree he is a man who can rebuild the squad, he is capable of building a solid team, but I’m still not convinced he would be the man to lead the club into the future….. but I’d be happily proved wrong. 

I wouldn't call him a promoter of youth either.  Dwight McNeil was the exception, not the norm.  On the other hand, he did sign young players like Michael Keane, Ben Mee, Kieran Trippier for relative peanuts and bring them on.

 

What he does do is find the gaps in the squad and fill them if possible, but he prefers to leave them unfilled if the right man isn't available.  You should have more leeway than Burnley ever had for player signings because of parachute money, which Dyche didn't have first time.  First time round, he performed the impossible of taking a mid table side, selling the top scorer, and getting promotion on the signing of free transfers (though having Danny Ings helped more than a little).  Second time round, he signed Andre Gray to replace Ings and signed Joey Barton for the midfield - and whatever we say about Barton (and who doesn't!) he was a model pro in his time at Burnley, such is (or was then, at least) the power of Dyche's man management.

 

As for stopping up, it's more or less impossible now IMO.  To stop up this year, any promoted club would have had to finish above one of Spurs, Man U, West Ham, Wolves, Everton.  Everyone else is 49 points plus.  Regardless of who the manager is, we'll wave at you as we swap places again next summer!

[CosbehFox]

30 minutes ago, kingfox said:

But the fact is they were all of a pretty young age when Dyche used them. People talk as if he’s addicted to playing two 30+ year olds at centre half, when I’ll even admit that’s just not the case. 
 

Plenty of players go out on loan first before being thrusted into the first team, it’s helped the likes of KDH in the past and Nelson this season. Look at bloody Harry Kane for example, he needed four loan spells before coming the striker he is today. 
 

It doesn’t matter who the manager is, a select few youngsters are always bound to go out on loan, it’s just the nature of football. 

They were young but the point is that right now we need to show a clear pathway of players from 17 to 19 yr old bracket (like many clubs do).
 

Asking Monga, Evans, Page to go on three loans until they are 22 won’t keep them. They’ll be gone. 

It’s long time the club changing its strategy in way Arsenal have recently for example. 

 

[Fox85]

1 hour ago, SecretPro said:

No.

Yes

[MPH]

It doesn’t matter who is in charge next season in some ways,  because Monga and Evans will definitely be getting more minutes. Managers hand will probably be forced by the lack of transfer investment. Not saying they’ll be regular starters, but they won’t be 4-5 minute cameos either.

[dsr-burnley]

Just a point about his last couple of years at Burnley - the then owner (Mike Garlick) was keeping very close control of the transfer budget, in the sense of not allowing it to be spent.  By the time Dyche finished, Garlick had sold up and taken the £80m cash in the bank with him.  So not only did Dyche have the club with the smallest income, it was a club that wouldn't let him spend the relatively few funds available. 

[Guest Bilo]

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[kingfox]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

They were young but the point is that right now we need to show a clear pathway of players from 17 to 19 yr old bracket (like many clubs do).
 

Asking Monga, Evans, Page to go on three loans until they are 22 won’t keep them. They’ll be gone. 

It’s long time the club changing its strategy in way Arsenal have recently for example. 

 

But people talk as if all our better academy players are ready for the first team, when it’s highly likely that may not be the case. 
 

Take Will Alves for example, I wanted him in the first team this season, like many others did. His loan spell at Cardiff has perhaps proved, that he wasn’t actually ready for first team Premier League football. Even next season regardless of who the manager is, do I expect Will Alves to be in the starting 11 week in week out, possibly not. 
 

We just don’t know how the likes of Monga, Evans and Page will continue to develop. Some of our youngsters are probably ready to feature in the first team, some may need a loan spell or two in League 1 & 2. 
 

Academy players develop differently, some are always bound to go out on loan, it’s an inevitable process mate.