General News Thread

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

A lot of people are just a bit thick and lack any kind of critical thinking. 

 

Just now, Foxdiamond said:

It would seem a lot of the people you mention are out of step with a lot of the public. 

... or it's someone who knows exactly what they're doing. 

 

I guess we'll all find out in time. 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

This is closer than the truth.

Perception trumping (and I use that phrase very deliberately) yet again. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 hour ago, kenny said:

If was a reform voting teacher, thats exactly the action I would take to stir up a storm.

Well I suppose they might exist, but in vanishingly small numbers, I'd have thought

 

1 hour ago, bovril said:

Her written piece is very insightful and quite true I think - because our culture and language (also via the US) has become so dominant globally over the last century or so, many people here have stopped seeing it as culture at all. 'Culture' for a lot of people in this country is simply foreign food or traditions. 

I've said on here before that I'm not really sure what "British Culture" actually is, mainly because the things that I would call culture - tradition, history, the arts, institutions seem to leave most people cold and be seen as being of little or no value.

 

It feels like we're left in this rather odd place where we struggle to define what it actually is (or care) but are absolutely certain that it's being undermined and taken away from us at every turn. The danger with this, and I think this is already happening, is that this becomes culture itself - we're perpetual victims, everything is shite, everything is broken, appreciating nothing. I've always been incredibly proud to be British and consider myself to be VERY fortunate to be so, but this is just horrible and a trend we'd do very well to fight against

 

 

 

 

[Clogger_]

1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said:

Is this an example of those in authority being fearful of celebrating anything British and self loathing. 

Personally speaking, I have no self loathing as a Brit, but I have *massive* loathing of fascists who seek to exploit our 'identity' to whip up trouble

[bovril]

14 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

It would seem a lot of the people you mention are out of step with a lot of the public. 

The public mostly fall into line though. 

[leicsmac]

Just now, Clogger_ said:

Personally speaking, I have no self loathing as a Brit, but I have *massive* loathing of fascists who seek to exploit our 'identity' to whip up trouble

Quite. 

 

For a variety of reasons. 

[bovril]

11 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Well I suppose they might exist, but in vanishingly small numbers, I'd have thought

 

I've said on here before that I'm not really sure what "British Culture" actually is, mainly because the things that I would call culture - tradition, history, the arts, institutions seem to leave most people cold and be seen as being of little or no value.

 

It feels like we're left in this rather odd place where we struggle to define what it actually is (or care) but are absolutely certain that it's being undermined and taken away from us at every turn. The danger with this, and I think this is already happening, is that this becomes culture itself - we're perpetual victims, everything is shite, everything is broken, appreciating nothing. I've always been incredibly proud to be British and consider myself to be VERY fortunate to be so, but this is just horrible and a trend we'd do very well to fight against

 

 

 

 

Culture is also attitudes and beliefs.

 

British culture is tricky because it's a composite, but it exists to some extent. There's definitely for example a kind of social culture on the whole of this island that doesn't exist anywhere else. 

 

English/Anglo culture definitely exists and has been highly influential in world history. Just because the English are ignorant of that, and because we've mostly sacrificed it on the altar of global capital, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And typically English attitudes and beliefs are still very prevalent here, as you allude to in your penultimate sentence.

 

I would also say that a lot of what you mention - lit., history, art - are deliberately shunned because of cultural cringe. 

Edited 15 July 2025 by bovril

[Sampson]

Yeah there’s plenty of great things about British culture im proud of - modern parliamentary liberal democracy, the separation of powers and institutions that we modernised: industrialisation and engineering of the railway systems and bridges etc. we gave to the world, self-effacing humour, that we have a certain tongue-in-cheek attitude I don’t see from many other countries, and I’ve definitely become a fan of the monarchy and constitutional monarchy as I’ve got older in a way I would’ve scoffed at when I was younger.

 

My issue isn’t the displaying of flags or being proud of your country. It’s when it spillls over into hiding behind patriotism and waving the flag and signing the national songs to actually attack your country and others to get what you want which is what Farage has spent the past 15 years doing, in that claims he is a patriot by flying the flag and signing Rule Britannia at the top of his voice, but he never has a good word to say about Britain and all he ever does is talk the country down and go on about what a shithole it is in order to argue only *he* can make it great by leaving x institution.

 

This isn’t a uniquely British problem btw. It’s happening all over the west.

Edited 15 July 2025 by Sampson

[bovril]

17 minutes ago, Sampson said:

This isn’t a uniquely British problem btw. It’s happening all over the west.

There is a greater tension here though between the nation and the forces of globalization because of our language and culture. Which ironically is our own fault from history. 

[when_you're_smiling]

21 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Yeah there’s plenty of great things about British culture im proud of - modern parliamentary liberal democracy, the separation of powers and institutions that we modernised: industrialisation and engineering of the railway systems and bridges etc. we gave to the world, self-effacing humour, that we have a certain tongue-in-cheek attitude I don’t see from many other countries, and I’ve definitely become a fan of the monarchy and constitutional monarchy as I’ve got older in a way I would’ve scoffed at when I was younger.

 

My issue isn’t the displaying of flags or being proud of your country. It’s when it spillls over into hiding behind patriotism and waving the flag and signing the national songs to actually attack your country and others to get what you want which is what Farage has spent the past 15 years doing, in that claims he is a patriot by flying the flag and signing Rule Britannia at the top of his voice, but he never has a good word to say about Britain and all he ever does is talk the country down and go on about what a shithole it is in order to argue only *he* can make it great by leaving x institution.

 

This isn’t a uniquely British problem btw. It’s happening all over the west.

Many don’t seem to know the difference between patriotism and nationalism, and why the latter tends to lead to issues.

[Foxdiamond]

1 hour ago, Clogger_ said:

Personally speaking, I have no self loathing as a Brit, but I have *massive* loathing of fascists who seek to exploit our 'identity' to whip up trouble

Who was the fascist involved?

[bovril]

21 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Many don’t seem to know the difference between patriotism and nationalism, and why the latter tends to lead to issues.

I don't think that distinction in this country is always as clear as people believe. I think it's more that England historically is a country that has dominated others and so patriotism is seen as more unsavoury here than in a country like Bulgaria or Poland for example. 

[Foxdiamond]

48 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Yeah there’s plenty of great things about British culture im proud of - modern parliamentary liberal democracy, the separation of powers and institutions that we modernised: industrialisation and engineering of the railway systems and bridges etc. we gave to the world, self-effacing humour, that we have a certain tongue-in-cheek attitude I don’t see from many other countries, and I’ve definitely become a fan of the monarchy and constitutional monarchy as I’ve got older in a way I would’ve scoffed at when I was younger.

 

My issue isn’t the displaying of flags or being proud of your country. It’s when it spillls over into hiding behind patriotism and waving the flag and signing the national songs to actually attack your country and others to get what you want which is what Farage has spent the past 15 years doing, in that claims he is a patriot by flying the flag and signing Rule Britannia at the top of his voice, but he never has a good word to say about Britain and all he ever does is talk the country down and go on about what a shithole it is in order to argue only *he* can make it great by leaving x institution.

 

This isn’t a uniquely British problem btw. It’s happening all over the west.

I think you have summed up how I feel too.

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, bovril said:

I don't think that distinction in this country is always as clear as people believe. I think it's more that England historically is a country that has dominated others and so patriotism is seen as more unsavoury here than in a country like Bulgaria or Poland for example. 

There's something in that. 

 

That being said, if history doesn't show very clearly just how damaging a supremacist belief can be - regardless whether it's written across demographic, national or whatever line - then I'm not sure how much clear it can be. 

[Foxdiamond]

9 minutes ago, bovril said:

I don't think that distinction in this country is always as clear as people believe. I think it's more that England historically is a country that has dominated others and so patriotism is seen as more unsavoury here than in a country like Bulgaria or Poland for example. 

If we are talking about the British Empire then plenty of non English prominent military and political leaders 

[bovril]

3 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

If we are talking about the British Empire then plenty of non English prominent military and political leaders 

Of course. Lots of Scottish names in the Caribbean and amongst African Americans. 

 

It is associated with England though, and Great Britain as a state is in some ways an extension of England on to the other nations. 

[bovril]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

There's something in that. 

 

That being said, if history doesn't show very clearly just how damaging a supremacist belief can be - regardless whether it's written across demographic, national or whatever line - then I'm not sure how much clear it can be. 

Nationalism has been an anti-imperial, modernising force plenty of times throughout history. 

[fox_up_north]

Kind of general news, kind of sport but Barcelona golden boy has been accused of insensitivity for hiring dwarves to perform at his 18th birthday party and may be investigated by prosecutors. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn5kpd4y2yvo

 

This is just bonkers. They got a statement from one of the entertainers who said they did a show for an hour and then enjoyed the party. 

 

I've seen prominent dwarf actors complain Peter Dinklage set them back by shaming Disney for Snow White, to the point where they took out the dwarves. 

 

Did nobody think to ask the dwarves if they were happy doing their job and getting paid to be at a lad's 18th? 

[Foxdiamond]

18 minutes ago, bovril said:

Of course. Lots of Scottish names in the Caribbean and amongst African Americans. 

 

It is associated with England though, and Great Britain as a state is in some ways an extension of England on to the other nations. 

I suppose a lot of people in other nations do not always know that Great Britain is not just England and the English

[Sampson]

1 minute ago, Foxdiamond said:

I suppose a lot of people in other nations do not always know that Great Britain is not just England and the English

Tbh many British and Irish people can’t tell you the difference between the UK, Great Britain and England, let alone where stuff like the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands fit into it all. I don’t know why we expect people not from the British Isles to know.

 

[bovril]

5 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I suppose a lot of people in other nations do not always know that Great Britain is not just England and the English

Let's be honest you're talking about Americans

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, bovril said:

Nationalism has been an anti-imperial, modernising force plenty of times throughout history. 

Sadly, however, I'm not sure how many of the instigators of those "modernising" actions through history have remained uncorrupt when they won and gained a measure of power. 

 

It's a difficult circle to square, I know, because a corollary of this is that there doesn't seem to be many other ways to destroy an imperialist power that is abusing that power without the mindset that ends up abusing power itself. 

 

No idea how we deal with that, but it clearly does need to be dealt with. 

[Sampson]

3 minutes ago, bovril said:

Let's be honest you're talking about Americans

Nah let’s be fair, most people outside the British Isles know England, Scotland and Ireland (as in the island of Ireland) and think they are either 3 independent nations or just one big nation coving the entire British Isles. Most people outside of UK & Ireland couldn’t tell you what Wales, Northern Ireland or the Isle of Man are. 
 

It’s understandable though. Most Brits couldn’t tell you where Catalonia or Bavaria are either, most people just aren’t that interested in these things.

Edited 15 July 2025 by Sampson

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Tbh many British and Irish people can’t tell you the difference between the UK, Great Britain and England, let alone where stuff like the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands fit into it all. I don’t know why we expect people not from the British Isles to know.

 

GB is like the US.

 

England is New York State, Ireland is Hawaii, Scotland is Alaska and Wales is the deep south.

[Spudulike]

16 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Kind of general news, kind of sport but Barcelona golden boy has been accused of insensitivity for hiring dwarves to perform at his 18th birthday party and may be investigated by prosecutors. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cn5kpd4y2yvo

 

This is just bonkers. They got a statement from one of the entertainers who said they did a show for an hour and then enjoyed the party. 

 

I've seen prominent dwarf actors complain Peter Dinklage set them back by shaming Disney for Snow White, to the point where they took out the dwarves. 

 

Did nobody think to ask the dwarves if they were happy doing their job and getting paid to be at a lad's 18th? 

Don't know about Happy but at least one was probably Grumpy.