Cifuentes OUT

[pmcla26]

1 hour ago, nnfox said:

Maresca would not have kept us up.  We didn't have the players for his brand of football.  Chelsea coming in for him was exactly what he needed.

Recruitment would have been a lot different with Maresca in 24/25. 
 

Ayew, Skipp, Reid, Edouard - none of them would have been signed. Nearly £40m (including Edouard’s loan fees) that would have gone elsewhere. 
 

So there’s the possibility we would have got the next Hermansen, Fatawu etc. through the door. 

[BrilliantFox]

2 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

Know a couple of their fans and they hate the way he plays as much as we did.

Chelsea fans are thick as mince and only understand kick it long hoofball. 

 

Chelsea have had 5 red cards this season.

Their best player Palmer has been injured.

Their best ball playing CB Colwill has been injured.

They failed to buy a top striker in the summer.

There is a lack of experience in the squad.

They have a poor Centreback pairing in Chalobah and Tosin. 

 

Despite all of this,

 

Maresca has Chelsea scoring the 2nd most goals in the league even above Arsenal.

Maresca has Chelsea generating the highest Shots on Target in the league.

Maresca has Chelsea overperforming with the highest xG created in the league.

Maresca has Chelsea committing the 3rd best press in the league.

Edited 16 November 2025 by BrilliantFox

[SafewayFox]

6 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Alex Ferguson transformed Man Utd into Aberdeen.

 

Arsene Wenger turned Arsenal into Grampus Eight.

 

Bill Shankly turned Liverpool into Huddersfield Town.

 

Vincent Company turned Bayern Munich into Burnley.

 

Rocket science.

Marti literally talks about growing up in Barcelona as his biggest managerial achievement.

 

Yet the managers that you listed either played for the elite (Kompany) or had an elite mindset/leadership quality (the other three), all you have to do is read up on Shankly, Fergie and Wenger, they were ahead of their times/motivators that saw players running through walls for them/their ideas.

 

Do I list off 100’s of other managers who failed because they just don’t have “it”, which is sadly what Marti is proving as falling into.

 

I totally agree with the OP who said about shopping in the QPR window for a distinctly average manager and you’ll get average results.

[LCFCJohn]

5 hours ago, BrilliantFox said:

Chelsea fans are thick as mince and only understand kick it long hoofball. 

 

Chelsea have had 5 red cards this season.

Their best player Palmer has been injured.

Their best ball playing CB Colwill has been injured.

They failed to buy a top striker in the summer.

There is a lack of experience in the squad.

They have a poor Centreback pairing in Chalobah and Tosin. 

 

Despite all of this,

 

Maresca has Chelsea scoring the 2nd most goals in the league even above Arsenal.

Maresca has Chelsea generating the highest Shots on Target in the league.

Maresca has Chelsea overperforming with the highest xG created in the league.

Maresca has Chelsea committing the 3rd best press in the league.

I haven’t seen anything of Chelsea, but if those stats at the bottom of your post are correct, they obviously sound good. I don’t know how they compare to where we would have sat in the same stats for the Championship that season (I know we scored the most goals with 89). 
 

But the eye test was that we were a hard watch a lot of the time which is what Chelsea fans probably find. We were regularly poor and all over the place defensively and were easy to beat (simply ball down our right defensive channel). 
 

Don’t get me wrong, there were times we looked very good, particularly the October/November time. Teams started to figure us out towards the new year. Had we been good defensively, and played with more tempo and moved the ball faster, I’d have been easier to watch.

[nnfox]

I've been watching football for a lot of years now.  All I can say is that some managers work out, and some don't.  Why that is, is a bit of an unknown.  If it were known, then no professional club would ever select a "bad" manager.

 

For me, Marti on paper ticks a lot of boxes.  I'm disappointed that we haven't won a few more games, but then I remind myself of how the club is run...

 

1.  Marti was brought in late into pre season.

 

2.  We still had many of the players that have been poor performers for multiple seasons and multiple managers.

 

3.  We spent zero pounds bring new players in.

 

4.  We don't have a goalscorer and we don't have a creative midfielder.

 

5.  There's a crap atmosphere hanging over the club, both from a bunch of relegated players and frustrated fans.

 

6. Points deduction incoming adding to uncertainty.

 

I'm prepared to give Marti time.  IF he's given funds to spend in January, then let's see what difference that makes.  If he isn't given funds, then I say keep for the rest of the season (providing we're not flirting with relegation).

 

We can't keep changing managers every 20 games, at some point you have to stick with one.  It appears that we're about to enter a period of change at the strategic level of the club and who knows what that's going to look like.  Maintaining a bit of stability on the training ground is, right now, of the highest importance.

[Richmondfox]

2 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

Marti literally talks about growing up in Barcelona as his biggest managerial achievement.

 

Yet the managers that you listed either played for the elite (Kompany) or had an elite mindset/leadership quality (the other three), all you have to do is read up on Shankly, Fergie and Wenger, they were ahead of their times/motivators that saw players running through walls for them/their ideas.

 

Do I list off 100’s of other managers who failed because they just don’t have “it”, which is sadly what Marti is proving as falling into.

 

I totally agree with the OP who said about shopping in the QPR window for a distinctly average manager and you’ll get average results.

He’s a crap manager with little to no attacking instinct, tactics or in game management to break down a team. 
 

During his 2 seasons at QPR, goals per game worked out just over 1. He’s already showing that here at 1.2. He is just continuing a trend, not breaking through and standing out with better resources, albeit with chaos above and noise from the fans. 
 

He lost me when he said everyone gets a clean sheet and played Soumare for two games in a row.  He just rotates the shit players who continue the mistakes and doesn’t change the tactics.  How can a manager watch Ayew every week break down an attack and actively avoid bringing his team mates into the game, yet still think it’s a good idea to play him. 
 

Are the players too scared, thick or don’t care enough to speak up and say, this isn’t working?  

[Richmondfox]

2 hours ago, nnfox said:

I've been watching football for a lot of years now.  All I can say is that some managers work out, and some don't.  Why that is, is a bit of an unknown.  If it were known, then no professional club would ever select a "bad" manager.

 

For me, Marti on paper ticks a lot of boxes.  I'm disappointed that we haven't won a few more games, but then I remind myself of how the club is run...

 

1.  Marti was brought in late into pre season.

 

2.  We still had many of the players that have been poor performers for multiple seasons and multiple managers.

 

3.  We spent zero pounds bring new players in.

 

4.  We don't have a goalscorer and we don't have a creative midfielder.

 

5.  There's a crap atmosphere hanging over the club, both from a bunch of relegated players and frustrated fans.

 

6. Points deduction incoming adding to uncertainty.

 

I'm prepared to give Marti time.  IF he's given funds to spend in January, then let's see what difference that makes.  If he isn't given funds, then I say keep for the rest of the season (providing we're not flirting with relegation).

 

We can't keep changing managers every 20 games, at some point you have to stick with one.  It appears that we're about to enter a period of change at the strategic level of the club and who knows what that's going to look like.  Maintaining a bit of stability on the training ground is, right now, of the highest importance.

Here is a view point from someone who was never Marti in.  Our players are good enough to carry the ball across the half way line, run into space and cross the ball first time, basics.  As shown with the winner in the last game.  But this isn’t happening and always seems like it’s against how the manager has set us up, otherwise we would see it constantly, not during the panic and chaos of chasing to a dog shit team. We get undone all the time by the opposition making a simple 1-2 cross, repeat until they score. Yet we barely try it. 
 

Would giving Marti funds make him change his style of football?  The improvements can be made by him.  Stop JV slowing everything down and passing into a crowded area. Look for space, support, over lap, chill out on the step overs and cross or shoot. 
 

A striker is needed but that is no question. 
 

Regarding Daka.  There comes a point when you really have to stop calling yourself something, if you haven’t done it for a few years and unable to do when asked to. 

[BrilliantFox]

4 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

and all over the place defensively

I canot fault Maresca for the fact that he had to deal with 3 of his back 4 consisting of Faes, James Justin and Vestergaard.

 

In hindsight, Maresca was turning water into wine when you look at us defensively during th 23/24 season.

 

He only had 1 good defender and that was Ricardo, who had to invert into midfield anyway. The rest of our defence individually had glaring flaws.

[westernpark]

4 minutes ago, BrilliantFox said:

I canot fault Maresca for the fact that he had to deal with 3 of his back 4 consisting of Faes, James Justin and Vestergaard.

 

In hindsight, Maresca was turning water into wine when you look at us defensively during th 23/24 season.

 

He only had 1 good defender and that was Ricardo, who had to invert into midfield anyway. The rest of our defence individually had glaring flaws.

As much as we might dislike them, they are all good defenders at this level.

[BrilliantFox]

58 minutes ago, westernpark said:

good defenders at this level.

But not the right profiles for his system.

 

Vestegaard - too slow to play a high line

Faes - no composure and frequently has bozo moments

James Justin - no technical ability, relies only on his pace

[westernpark]

1 minute ago, BrilliantFox said:

But not the right profiles for his system.

 

Vestegaard - too slow to play a high line

Faes - no composure and frequently has bozo moments

James Justin - no technical ability, relies only on his pace

So, Vestegaard had the technical ability and Justin was quick enough. Faes had a bit of both and was very decent that season.

[Pliskin]

On 15/11/2025 at 11:51, BrilliantFox said:

You buy from QPR, you become QPR.

 

Its not rocket science.

 

Maresca came from the world class infrastructure of Man City, who have the best footballing structure on the planet.

 

If Maresca was treated right here, given the tools he needed and had a sensible DoF, he would have got this club back to winning silverware.

 

There is no doubt in my mind about that.

I agree. Enzo learnt his craft under the best. Marti hasn’t got the right to sniff the sweat from Enzo’s bollocks. 

[Pliskin]

6 hours ago, Richmondfox said:

Here is a view point from someone who was never Marti in.  Our players are good enough to carry the ball across the half way line, run into space and cross the ball first time, basics.  As shown with the winner in the last game.  But this isn’t happening and always seems like it’s against how the manager has set us up, otherwise we would see it constantly, not during the panic and chaos of chasing to a dog shit team. We get undone all the time by the opposition making a simple 1-2 cross, repeat until they score. Yet we barely try it. 
 

Would giving Marti funds make him change his style of football?  The improvements can be made by him.  Stop JV slowing everything down and passing into a crowded area. Look for space, support, over lap, chill out on the step overs and cross or shoot. 
 

A striker is needed but that is no question. 
 

Regarding Daka.  There comes a point when you really have to stop calling yourself something, if you haven’t done it for a few years and unable to do when asked to. 

I agree. 
 

It’s okay if you just want to argue that ‘we’re shit’, and end the argument at that. It’s not entirely the case…. There are fragilities within the squad, but this squad should be competing at the top end of the championship. 
 

We don’t create chances because our build up play is far too slow, and unimaginative, whose responsibility is this? Marti’s.

 

We concede poor goals because our build up play through the middle of the pitch is slow, and susceptible to being overrun in an aggressive press, then we get caught because we’re stepped too high up the pitch. Whose responsibility is this? Marti’s….

 

Our wingers aren’t getting into enough 1v1 situations, because our buildup play is too slow, again, who’s responsibility? Marti……. 
 

We don’t create chances because of our slow buildup play, like you say, there’s ability in this team, Fatawu is the best winger in the league, but he’s being strangled by the slow turgid build up play…. We generally play with no forward momentum at all, so we’re not dangerous in transition….. the only players who can give us any forward momentum are James and Fatawu, we need to do better as a team. 
 

What Marti is doing, is trying to play a system that suits him, not a system that benefits the players….. and this is what we need.

 

We won’t improve under Marti, Norwich is a red herring and one that will cost us, because this was the period to sack him. 
 

I know the bigger problems are at the top of the club, but that isn’t going to be rectified any time soon, so the least they can do is hire a manager who will be able to work with this squad. 
 

Eventually Marti will be sacked, it will just now get to the stage where the season just drifts away, and he gets sacked to facilitate a potential late play off charge. 

Edited 16 November 2025 by Pliskin

[trooky]

6 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

Marti literally talks about growing up in Barcelona as his biggest managerial achievement.

 

Yet the managers that you listed either played for the elite (Kompany) or had an elite mindset/leadership quality (the other three), all you have to do is read up on Shankly, Fergie and Wenger, they were ahead of their times/motivators that saw players running through walls for them/their ideas.

 

Do I list off 100’s of other managers who failed because they just don’t have “it”, which is sadly what Marti is proving as falling into.

 

I totally agree with the OP who said about shopping in the QPR window for a distinctly average manager and you’ll get average results.

That's utter rubbish about shopping at QPR, you've basically dismissed any lower level managers ability to progress and that we should always appoint from bigger clubs. 

[LCFCJohn]

2 hours ago, BrilliantFox said:

I canot fault Maresca for the fact that he had to deal with 3 of his back 4 consisting of Faes, James Justin and Vestergaard.

 

In hindsight, Maresca was turning water into wine when you look at us defensively during th 23/24 season.

 

He only had 1 good defender and that was Ricardo, who had to invert into midfield anyway. The rest of our defence individually had glaring flaws.

Well for a start, he loved Vestergaard and built the side around him. Faes to a lesser extent. The only reason Vestergaard got a new deal and will be stinking the place out until the 2027 summer is down to Maresca. 
 

His system also caused us to be vulnerable. As well as playing ourselves into trouble, we were punished time and time again with Ricardo inverted into midfield and essentially having no right back. Opposition sides had the freedom of their left hand side to bypass us defensively. That was a tactical choice. 
 

He was also backed heavily and chose Coady as his defensive option. 

[BrilliantFox]

12 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

and chose Coady

You think Maresca "chose" a defender that only had experience playing in a low block and sitting deep at Everton and Wolves? Think logically please.

 

No, signings like Coady and Cannon were club signings forced upon Maresca due to PSR issues. 

 

Vestergaard was a card that Maresca was dealt, he was not granted the opportunity to bring in a CB that suits his system.

 

There was a transfer rumour about a Brazilian CB in January called Lucas Beraldo, that was Maresca's guy. 

PSG hijacked the deal and still managed to get him on the cheap for 20 mil euros.

[Lcfcwatto]

7 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

Marti literally talks about growing up in Barcelona as his biggest managerial achievement.

This cracked me up 😂

 

When I saw some of his initial interviews, I thought he spoke a lot about Barcelona and playing the barca way. I thought, it's alright having that philosophy when you've got world class talent, doesn't really work when you've got bang average players at your disposal. 

[LCFCJohn]

20 minutes ago, BrilliantFox said:

You think Maresca "chose" a defender that only had experience playing in a low block and sitting deep at Everton and Wolves? Think logically please.

 

No, signings like Coady and Cannon were club signings forced upon Maresca due to PSR issues. 

 

Vestergaard was a card that Maresca was dealt, he was not granted the opportunity to bring in a CB that suits his system.

 

There was a transfer rumour about a Brazilian CB in January called Lucas Beraldo, that was Maresca's guy. 

PSG hijacked the deal and still managed to get him on the cheap for 20 mil euros.

Given our ‘manager led’ approach, I think it is reasonable to think most signings are, at least approved by, the manager. He has enough sway to have vetoed it at least. 
 

And not granted a centre back that suited. Again, we brought in a very expensive centre back for that level on huge wages. If Maresca has other targets in mind, why didn’t they happen? 
 

And as I said, he built the side around Vestergaard and signed off on a contract extension before jumping to Chelsea and leaving us lumbered with him.

 

He was clearly a good coach. And he did speak out about standards at the club. But there is no evidence to suggest he had a good eye for a player. Our recruitment that summer was bang average overall. Better than completely shit before and after granted, but hardly good. Even the signings who have been overall good from that summer, Hermansen, Fatawu and Mavididi, still have question marks over their mentality and character. 

[whoareyaaa]

17 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

Disagree. We still wouldn’t have had positive recruitment and wouldn’t have had anywhere near the squad needed to make his style work as a newly promoted club into the PL. And he hadn’t shown himself to be adaptable in that he would have tried a different approach.

 

Enzo would have got 10x more out of Facundo and Bilal, standards would have got even higher the team morale would be high off the back of winning the Championship title.. We wouldn't have had Soumare Kristensen, Thomas, Skipp or Ayew who all contritubed to us going down Winks, Vesterguard and even Faes would have been more switched on etc.. and the team would have a year wiser.

 

I don't think we would have gone down honestly.

[Collymore]

Think Marti will be glad of all this background noise. Attention will be deflected away from him for bit. 

 

It looks like he probably isn't being held to account by the club anyway if that interview by Top is anything to go by - realise more than ever Top doesn't know his arse from his elbow. 

 

The fans are the true jury here. We hold the power to apply the pressure on Marti and Top and it must continue. 

 

 

[SafewayFox]

2 hours ago, trooky said:

That's utter rubbish about shopping at QPR, you've basically dismissed any lower level managers ability to progress and that we should always appoint from bigger clubs. 

I’d genuinely suggest re-reading my post, it’s not about QPR but the average nature of everything that he displayed at QPR and before.

 

Imagine defending Marti’s record at any club and saying it’s been anything other than bottom half Championship at best.

 

There is a difference between commenting on that and an up and coming young manager who has actually proven a track record of winning at a lower level.

 

 

Edited 16 November 2025 by SafewayFox

[ajthefox]

45 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

I’d genuinely suggest re-reading my post, it’s not about QPR but the average nature of everything that he displayed at QPR and before.

 

Imagine defending Marti’s record at any club and saying it’s been anything other than bottom half Championship at best.

 

There is a difference between commenting on that and an up and coming young manager who has actually proven a track record of winning at a lower level.

 

 

That's fair enough, I wouldn't disagree with any of this.

 

But I dont think the bolded bit came across that much in your previous post, it read to me like a big part of the reason for not wanting Marti was because he was at an 'average' club.

[SafewayFox]

22 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

That's fair enough, I wouldn't disagree with any of this.

 

But I dont think the bolded bit came across that much in your previous post, it read to me like a big part of the reason for not wanting Marti was because he was at an 'average' club.

Point taken TBF.

 

I thought that comparing Marti to Fergie/Shankly etc was just a bit OTT, I should have stated that Marti’s track record has been average and QPR were in an extremely average position after leaving them.

[Chelmofox]

10 hours ago, BrilliantFox said:

I canot fault Maresca for the fact that he had to deal with 3 of his back 4 consisting of Faes, James Justin and Vestergaard.

 

In hindsight, Maresca was turning water into wine when you look at us defensively during th 23/24 season.

 

He only had 1 good defender and that was Ricardo, who had to invert into midfield anyway. The rest of our defence individually had glaring flaws.

He was the reason why we resigned Vestergaard, and a build up play was built around him. Massive revisionism.

 

 

[Ric Flair]

What will Marti have achieved over these two weeks? Our record after the 1st and 2nd international breaks have been nothing short of a disgrace and so surely it's 3rd time lucky we put a few wins together when we resume? Otherwise we might as well put him on gardening leave each time there's a break to stop him making a pigs ear of it.