Jamaal Lascelles joins on deal until end of season - Official

[honeybradger]

1 minute ago, ClaphamFox said:

Isn't it possible that our collapse in form has something to do with Vestergaard being out and having to rely on Okoli and Nelson?

Okoli and Nelson was a semi regular centre back pairing before Cifuentes got sacked and they were fine at averaging over a point per game.

 

For comparison cifuentes's last 9 games:

 

With vestergaard: Played 4 Won 1 drawn 1 lost 2 PPG 1

 

Nelson and Okoli: Played 5 Won 2 lost 3 PPG 1.2

 

Vestergaard being out isn't the problem, it's the terrible way the club approached sacking and replacing Cifuentes. We should have either had someone ready to come in immediately or kept him.

[Stadt]

We've seen enough from Vestergaard to know he's not personally responsible for preventing us conceding an additional 0.5 goals per game. This is a chronic and structural problem and we could test out all combination of CBs and the results would be pretty similar.

 

Our earlier 'better' form was before our fitness/coaching/motovation/injury issues had manifested, we were still shit as the underlying metrics suggested.

[ClaphamFox]

5 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

Okoli and Nelson was a semi regular centre back pairing before Cifuentes got sacked and they were fine at averaging over a point per game.

 

For comparison cifuentes's last 9 games:

 

With vestergaard: Played 4 Won 1 drawn 1 lost 2 PPG 1

 

Nelson and Okoli: Played 5 Won 2 lost 3 PPG 1.2

 

Vestergaard being out isn't the problem, it's the terrible way the club approached sacking and replacing Cifuentes. We should have either had someone ready to come in immediately or kept him.

Over the season as a whole, the PPG stats for the games in which Vestergaard played vs those he didn't are stark. There is a huge difference.  I don't think that can be glossed over by narrowing down the frame of reference to Cifuentes' last nine games.

Okoli is not good enough for this level. Nelson is talented but is extremely inconsistent. We need at least one experienced head in there, whether that be Vestergaard, Lascelles or Souttar. I suspect when everyone is fit Nelson will be on the bench and Okoli will struggle to make the squad.

[Chelmofox]

32 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Isn't it possible that our collapse in form has something to do with Vestergaard being out and having to rely on Okoli and Nelson?

It also aligns with JJ injury.

 

Working out PPG stats based on single players is flawed.

[honeybradger]

11 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Over the season as a whole, the PPG stats for the games in which Vestergaard played vs those he didn't are stark. There is a huge difference.  I don't think that can be glossed over by narrowing down the frame of reference to Cifuentes' last nine games.

Okoli is not good enough for this level. Nelson is talented but is extremely inconsistent. We need at least one experienced head in there, whether that be Vestergaard, Lascelles or Souttar. I suspect when everyone is fit Nelson will be on the bench and Okoli will struggle to make the squad.

Games where Winks started: 0.95 PPG

 

Games where Winks didn't start: 1.35 PPG

 

Yet you still adore Winks.

 

It feels to me that you are picking and choosing which players you consider to be at fault for our downfall.

 

Our low points per game without Vestergaard is massively weighted by the games that King was in charge and where we looked rudderless.

 

As @Chelmofox just mentioned Vestergaard's injury also aligns with Jordan James being injured.

 

You can't just conclude the cause of our woes when there are so many variables.

Edited 18 March by honeybradger

[Chelmofox]

11 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Over the season as a whole, the PPG stats for the games in which Vestergaard played vs those he didn't are stark. There is a huge difference.  I don't think that can be glossed over by narrowing down the frame of reference to Cifuentes' last nine games.

Okoli is not good enough for this level. Nelson is talented but is extremely inconsistent. We need at least one experienced head in there, whether that be Vestergaard, Lascelles or Souttar. I suspect when everyone is fit Nelson will be on the bench and Okoli will struggle to make the squad.

Everyone wont be fit. Souttar hasn't played for about 1.5 years. He doesnt just slot in an everything is magically ok. There appears to be significant issues with Lascelles fitness, and he stood there watching goal after goal go in against Southampton.

 

Cant wait for Vesty to come back, and for people to remember he cant jump and cant run, gets beaten by players 1/3 his size, and spends most of the game standing on the ball.

 

This is all coupled with the coaches strategy to play a high line (see the equaliser against us Saturday).

 

Our CB situation is desperate.  The only option we haven't seen enough of is Lascelles who has been suspiciously absent during a period where Okoli literally pi55es himself every time the ball comes near him, and a period where Nelson and Jakub needed experience around them.

 

Thought Skipp and Aluko played quite well there the games they had ..... 

[FoxinNotts]

Imagine if Lascelles and Daka suddenly stepped up and did their jobs properly until the end of the season, and became undroppable!

 

Bare clean sheets and bare goals !!!!!! 

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, honeybradger said:

Games where Winks started: 0.95 PPG

 

Games where Winks didn't start: 1.35 PPG

 

Yet you still adore Winks.

 

It feels to me that you are picking and choosing which players you consider to be at fault for our downfall.

 

Our low points per game without Vestergaard is massively weighted by the games that King was in charge and where we looked rudderless.

The responsibility for our downfall is collective. I just think that trying to navigate a relegation scrap with two very raw centre-halves, one of whom is terrified of the football, puts us at something of a disadvantage. I'm no fan of Vestergaard and have slated him relentlessly in the past, but at the moment I'd prefer him alongside Nelson than Okoli.

 

I'm also not a particular fan of Winks, but there have been games under Rowett when he has looked closer to the version we saw under Maresca. He's also one of the few players we have who are vocal on the pitch, which is a quality we will likely need over the next eight games. Did you calculate those PPG stats yourself, by the way? Kudos for the effort if so...

 

7 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

Everyone wont be fit. Souttar hasn't played for about 1.5 years. He doesnt just slot in an everything is magically ok. There appears to be significant issues with Lascelles fitness, and he stood there watching goal after goal go in against Southampton.

 

Cant wait for Vesty to come back, and for people to remember he cant jump and cant run, gets beaten by players 1/3 his size, and spends most of the game standing on the ball.

 

This is all coupled with the coaches strategy to play a high line (see the equaliser against us Saturday).

 

Our CB situation is desperate.  The only option we haven't seen enough of is Lascelles who has been suspiciously absent during a period where Okoli literally pi55es himself every time the ball comes near him, and a period where Nelson and Jakub needed experience around them.

 

Thought Skipp and Aluko played quite well there the games they had ..... 

Yes, it is desperate. It's a shame that Souttar has been out for so long as he's the one CB we have on our books who I think might actually make a real difference if fully fit. 

[Chelmofox]

Just now, ClaphamFox said:

The responsibility for our downfall is collective. I just think that trying to navigate a relegation scrap with two very raw centre-halves, one of whom is terrified of the football, puts us at something of a disadvantage. I'm no fan of Vestergaard and have slated him relentlessly in the past, but at the moment I'd prefer him alongside Nelson than Okoli.

 

I'm also not a particular fan of Winks, but there have been games under Rowett when he has looked closer to the version we saw under Maresca. He's also one of the few players we have who are vocal on the pitch, which is a quality we will likely need over the next eight games. Did you calculate those PPG stats yourself, by the way? Kudos for the effort if so...

 

Yes, it is desperate. It's a shame that Souttar has been out for so long as he's the one CB we have on our books who I think might actually make a real difference if fully fit. 

I never saw that previously for Leicester. He fell out of favour with Brendan, Smith and Enzo pretty quickly. There is nothing to suggest that he fits in to our (misguided) system and changes anything.

[ClaphamFox]

3 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

I never saw that previously for Leicester. He fell out of favour with Brendan, Smith and Enzo pretty quickly. There is nothing to suggest that he fits in to our (misguided) system and changes anything.

The best individual central defensive performance from a Leicester player in recent years was Souttar away at Newcastle in the penultimate game of 2022/23 under Smith when we drew 0-0. He was immense that night and was the official MotM. He clearly wasn't Enzo's kind of player but he was very good at Sheff Utd before he got injured. I think a fully fit Harry Souttar as one of our CBs would be an upgrade on what we've got now.

[Chelmofox]

2 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

The best individual central defensive performance from a Leicester player in recent years was Souttar away at Newcastle in the penultimate game of 2022/23 under Smith when we drew 0-0. He was immense that night and was the official MotM. He clearly wasn't Enzo's kind of player but he was very good at Sheff Utd before he got injured. I think a fully fit Harry Souttar as one of our CBs would be an upgrade on what we've got now.

We played with 3 CB. Are we going to do that to accommodate Souttar?

 

[Stadt]

1 minute ago, Chelmofox said:

We played with 3 CB. Are we going to do that to accommodate Souttar?

 

That XI wasn’t a natural fit for 3atb but Castagne was a better wingback fit than anything we have now. Plus the strikers complemented each other.

 

Now only the midfield 3 would suit that and possibly the CBs. One of Fatawu/Mavaidi up front or at WB would be silly.

 

The one occasion we played two up top this season was with Ayew and Carranza  

[FoxinNotts]

2 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

The best individual central defensive performance from a Leicester player in recent years was Souttar away at Newcastle in the penultimate game of 2022/23 under Smith when we drew 0-0. He was immense that night and was the official MotM. He clearly wasn't Enzo's kind of player but he was very good at Sheff Utd before he got injured. I think a fully fit Harry Souttar as one of our CBs would be an upgrade on what we've got now.

100% agree with every word

[FoxinNotts]

10 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

We played with 3 CB. Are we going to do that to accommodate Souttar?

 

No, but I'd have a fit Souttar, in a back four over any of our other centre backs.

 

I'd love to see Souttar and Lascelles pairing if they were both fit.

[Gazza M]

7 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

No, but I'd have a fit Souttar, in a back four over any of our other centre backs.

 

I'd love to see Souttar and Lascelles pairing if they were both fit.

Long term if Souttar was fit I would pair with Nelson. 

[foxpodder]

Saw Vesty on the Sheffield - London train this afternoon (he got on at Loughborough). Asked if he was back for Watford ... he said might possibly make the bench, but not a starter. So probably after the international break ... and Preston? 

[Sly]

10 hours ago, filbertway said:

Vesty has turned into Maldini during his time away from the pitch

 

I never thought I’d ever been out of the minority that called for his inclusion in the team 

[Lambert09]

“Lascelles will save us “

 

19 seconds into the watford game …

 

 

[Ric Flair]

13 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

We played with 3 CB. Are we going to do that to accommodate Souttar?

 

We should try to it to see if it at least marginally improves a team that 3 managers this season have gone with the exact same set up and all 3 have faced chronic defensive issues and a midfield that seems ill equipped to protect the defensive weaknesses either. Also, our full backs are appalling at supporting our wingers so the entire structure is piss weak.

 

Vestergaard, Lascelles and Souttar would all suit a back 3 (not as a 3 though, i'd want at least Nelson in there if all 3 ever actually get fit).

 

We need athletism at wing back which is where Aluko and Fatawu would be perfect for the roles and then deploy a dual 10 of James/Musaka/Ramsay/Reid behind Daka.

[Chelmofox]

48 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

We should try to it to see if it at least marginally improves a team that 3 managers this season have gone with the exact same set up and all 3 have faced chronic defensive issues and a midfield that seems ill equipped to protect the defensive weaknesses either. Also, our full backs are appalling at supporting our wingers so the entire structure is piss weak.

 

Vestergaard, Lascelles and Souttar would all suit a back 3 (not as a 3 though, i'd want at least Nelson in there if all 3 ever actually get fit).

 

We need athletism at wing back which is where Aluko and Fatawu would be perfect for the roles and then deploy a dual 10 of James/Musaka/Ramsay/Reid behind Daka.

Oh I agree. I’ve posted several times that I’m astonished Rowett is just doing the same thing. I’m not sure he’ll do it just to accommodate Souttar when he could have already done it.