Wes Burns (signed, official)

[boosmanana]

1 minute ago, CosbehFox said:

 

So what we going 33% cut? Still be a decent sum of £14k a week in a division where the average wage is £4k

But IF we then get promoted this season and his salary remains the same in the Championship where the average wage is higher and he's still competitive both in our squad and the league does that then mean that it's good value? That's if your speculated/estimated figures are anywhere near correct of course.

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, CosbehFox said:

 

So what we going 33% cut? Still be a decent sum of £14k a week in a division where the average wage is £4k

None of us know for certain. But £10k a week over three years would bring him 50% more in total than £20k per week over a year, so it could be around that or even slightly lower.

[CosbehFox]

Just now, boosmanana said:

But IF we then get promoted this season and his salary remains the same in the Championship where the average wage is higher and he's still competitive both in our squad and the league does that then mean that it's good value? That's if your speculated/estimated figures are anywhere near correct of course.

Probably not cos then we are paying a 33 year old that sum of money with very little chance of offloading 

[Stadt]

33 minutes ago, bald reynard said:

You've forgotten Watson in that lineup, I would guess he'd be likely starter - more likely than Alves, especially playing on the left, with Burns on the right.

If I'm Alves and I don't start first game of the season I'm handing in a transfer request - that's the cub saying we are never going to believe in you as a first team player.

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, ClaphamFox said:

None of us know for certain. But £10k a week over three years would bring him 50% more in total than £20k per week over a year, so it could be around that or even slightly lower.

And even £10k a week is quite a decent whack for a player who year 1 is in League 1 and hopefully years 2/3 in the championship at the age of 33/34. 
 

If we take say Lloyd Dyer who got on a free from MK Dons, last time we were in third tier. You can see the value for money point being made 

[boosmanana]

Just now, CosbehFox said:

Probably not cos then we are paying a 33 year old that sum of money with very little chance of offloading 

Not every experienced player needs offloading. We're not bringing him in with the view to flipping a profit on him down the line. We should be doing that with the bulk of our other signings though admittedly. If you bring someone in with his remit being experience, proven quality, recent promotion experience and renown for being brilliant for team spirit and the dressing room, would paying him the amount you quoted on a weekly basis not be reasonable value were we to be in the PL again at the end of his contract if it were to be 3 years?

[Stadt]

7 minutes ago, boosmanana said:

It was you that stated that the 31 year old was on a big wage, I didn't comment on the amount that he's earning as I don't know what he earns currently or what he'd earn were he to join us. Neither do you. 

I didn't like the signings of Skipp, Okoli, Ayew or Reid as I don't rate them as footballers, but again, neither of us know what they're being paid so it's all conjecture.

Well conjecture is the point - it's a fans forum.

 

We don't know the specifics on wages, we do know we historically overpay 

[ktfoxes]

Just now, Stadt said:

If I'm Alves and I don't start first game of the season I'm handing in a transfer request - that's the cub saying we are never going to believe in you as a first team player.

I'm sure Alves is not stupid enough to take competition/depth in his position as an insult, nor does he think he's 100% owed a starting spot

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, CosbehFox said:

And even £10k a week is quite a decent whack for a player who year 1 is in League 1 and hopefully years 2/3 in the championship at the age of 33/34. 
 

If we take say Lloyd Dyer who got on a free from MK Dons, last time we were in third tier. You can see the value for money point being made 

Do we know what wages we offered Dyer and how they stood in relation to the League One average at that time? We had comfortably the best squad in the division that season, so it's likely we also had the highest wage bill. I don't think Burns' transfer fee is much of an issue as it will be very small. 

[Stadt]

Just now, ktfoxes said:

I'm sure Alves is not stupid enough to take competition/depth in his position as an insult, nor does he think he's 100% owed a starting spot

If he can't get a game when we're at our lowest ever level when can he expect to play? He was Cardiff's best player at the back end of 24/25

 

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

This is it, if we aren't going to blood several academy players when we're at League One level and in a mess financially then we likely never will.

There's nothing (apart from recent historical managerial precedent) to suggest these players won't get game time - even the most pessimistic of fans has to believe that if he's giving Joseph and Aluko the armband in pre-season, he has every intention of using them.

 

Even last year under cifuentes, whilst he started with the experienced players he was gradually phasing in the younger players (ironically when our form started to dip).

 

I know we've been here, year in year out, hoping this year will be different.  I think what gives me hope is just the sheer numbers of young players with L1, L2 or EFL experience, available to him, that the risk, especially at this level is not so great.

[Ian S]

I bet a lot of the posters who are saying play loads of academy players are the same posters who have slaughtered the likes of Stolarcyk and Nelson after their confidence hit rock bottom and performed poorly playing in a s**t show for a couple of years.

Edited 6 August by Ian S

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, boosmanana said:

Not every experienced player needs offloading. We're not bringing him in with the view to flipping a profit on him down the line. We should be doing that with the bulk of our other signings though admittedly. If you bring someone in with his remit being experience, proven quality, recent promotion experience and renown for being brilliant for team spirit and the dressing room, would paying him the amount you quoted on a weekly basis not be reasonable value were we to be in the PL again at the end of his contract if it were to be 3 years?

First point, Leicester city needs to work on a model of offloading and flipping a profit because currently it’s financially screwed. The carrot of promotion to the Championship is simply not enough to turn around. Admittedly if we are talking PL by the end of his contract that’s a different story. 

 

You can add a lot of those qualities without having to spend a transfer fee or five figures wages. As pointed out to me today, Lincoln and Cardiff both had players off that ilk. Similar in our last foray into the third, we signed three older pro’s all of which came in on a free and a one year deal. 
 

I’ll also mention on that final point Connor Coady

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, Ian S said:

I bet a lot of the posters who are saying play loads of academy players are the same posters who have slaughtered the likes of Stolarcyk and Nelson after their confidence hit rock bottom and performed poorly playing in a s**t show for a couple of years.

Proof 

[boosmanana]

2 minutes ago, Stadt said:

If he can't get a game when we're at our lowest ever level when can he expect to play? He was Cardiff's best player at the back end of 24/25

 

He can never EXPECT to play. That's likely been a problem for a little while in that there's been zero competition for places. If he's good enough both in training and in match days then he'll play. I hope he does, he's fun to watch and he's obviously really talented. I actually preferred him as one of the attacking 8's earlier in pre-season as it was refreshing to see someone so direct and comfortable on the ball driving through the centre of the pitch. 

[CosbehFox]

6 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Do we know what wages we offered Dyer and how they stood in relation to the League One average at that time? We had comfortably the best squad in the division that season, so it's likely we also had the highest wage bill. I don't think Burns' transfer fee is much of an issue as it will be very small. 

Probably more than average but given Dyer’s previous club, it wouldn’t have been anyway near what we are paying Burns by comparison 

 

Not withstanding Dyer had age on his side and improved to the point where pretty much Burns is at now 

Edited 6 August by CosbehFox

[ktfoxes]

 

1 minute ago, Stadt said:

If he can't get a game when we're at our lowest ever level when can he expect to play? He was Cardiff's best player at the back end of 24/25

 

Where are you getting this idea that he's not going to play? 

[boosmanana]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

First point, Leicester city needs to work on a model of offloading and flipping a profit because currently it’s financially screwed. The carrot of promotion to the Championship is simply not enough to turn around. Admittedly if we are talking PL by the end of his contract that’s a different story. 

 

You can add a lot of those qualities without having to spend a transfer fee or five figures wages. As pointed out to me today, Lincoln and Cardiff both had players off that ilk. Similar in our last foray into the third, we signed three older pro’s all of which came in on a free and a one year deal. 
 

I’ll also mention on that final point Connor Coady

 We absolutely do, yes. But that doesn't mean you don't bring in suitable, sensible experience to accompany that. Without the suitable experience to help the younger players develop and to help us see out a long slog of a league season, we wouldn't be flipping the younger players for profit anyway. 

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, Fox-LMA said:

Looking at the squad as it shapes up, I expect there will be plenty of opportunities for Aluko, JJ, Page, Braybrooke & Alves. But they have to take those chances as they come. I think the rest would require more U21 football whilst training with the first team, or good loans. I'm worried about Evans. RM has said that he is struggling to keep up in training. Never a good sign. If he can't train well then he won't give RM a reason to give him first team minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

I think the other factor here that is crucial to remember is that all those players are versatile: 

 

Aluko - can play RB, LB, CB, RW.

JJ - RB, LB, RW

Page & Braybrooke can play #6 or #8

Alves - can play as an #8 , RW possibly even up front.

 

It's not like any of them are waiting for one specific first team to drop out.

[honeybradger]

6 minutes ago, boosmanana said:

Not every experienced player needs offloading. We're not bringing him in with the view to flipping a profit on him down the line. We should be doing that with the bulk of our other signings though admittedly. If you bring someone in with his remit being experience, proven quality, recent promotion experience and renown for being brilliant for team spirit and the dressing room,  the PL again at the end of his contract if it were to be 3 years?

The same was said about how signing Ayew for £5mil was good value because he could be the difference maker for keeping us in the Prem.

 

In football you simply can't make decisions purely on the best case scenario.

 

If Wes Burns does not work out we will be stuck with him on upper end championship wages. No one will want to sign him because of the wages either.

[Lillehamring]

With regards to the supposed three year contract - would i be right in thinking that it would mean, from a PSR POV, we can spread the cost of his fee over three years?  isn't that a good thing?

[Jobyfox]

4 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

The same was said about how signing Ayew for £5mil was good value because he could be the difference maker for keeping us in the Prem.

 

In football you simply can't make decisions purely on the best case scenario.

 

If Wes Burns does not work out we will be stuck with him on upper end championship wages. No one will want to sign him because of the wages either.

Nobody said that about Ayew did they? 
 

He looked a sh1te signing from the outset 

[coolhandfox]

17 minutes ago, Stadt said:

If I'm Alves and I don't start first game of the season I'm handing in a transfer request - that's the cub saying we are never going to believe in you as a first team player.

Surely he starts both Northampton and Nott C, same with Braybrooke and Joseph. 

 

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, Lillehamring said:

With regards to the supposed three year contract - would i be right in thinking that it would mean, from a PSR POV, we can spread the cost of his fee over three years?  isn't that a good thing?

We're not operating under PSR any more—it's now SCMP, which works differently. But yes, spreading a player's wages over three years at a lower annual rate make it easier to comply with the rules than paying a huge salary over shorter period.

[TJB-fox]

Happy with this, surprised at the negativity I’ve seen. Seems exactly the sort of character we need back at the club.