Feedback from the Kelly evening - nicked from another forum

[Ric Flair]

Thing is boys and girls, if Kelly does pick Tiatto and Maybury and we struggle then Kelly has 2 choices. He'll have to change things or he'll seriously have the crowd on his back. I know we'd all rather this not happen, but managers have to learn by their mistakes just like the rest of us. If we are doing well with these two in our team then although we still might not like it, you can't argue with results too much.

I'm not happy about it, but i'll let Kelly get on with it to start with. All managers do things that annoy the fans, even O'Neill did with his insistance on playing Impey.

I firmly believe that if Porter, Low or Gradel excel themselves and Maybury and Tiatto don't (as expected) then Kelly will have no choice but to change it. Let's not forget that Tiatto hardly played under Kelly last season, I know he was injured but when he was fit Kelly didn't always play him. Sadly Maybury seems a permanent fixture at right wing.

[The People's Hero]

I'm **** fed up of people at the club harping on about being hard to bear.

Fu ck that. We should be hard/impossible not to lose to.

Yeah.

[Manwell Pablo]

Just a quick question Thracian.

You moan about watching a team with no skill which does'nt excite you, which if fair enough. Do you honestly think the inclusion Max Gradel, Levi Porter, Louis Dodds, and Alan Sheehan will change this?

Oh actually one more question, do you think these players are capable of being part of team that can score the magical 70 goals you keep going on about?

[Thracian]

As far as I can make out Danny Tiatto has scored a total of 8 goals in his career of 199 games in England and just two League goals for Leicester.

Alan Maybury has scored seven times in 215 appearances for various clubs including three for City.

Does that point to us getting a glut of goals from midfield?

Both are capable defenders with spriit aplenty but the two of them in midfield will just blunt our attacks.

[Thracian]

Just a quick question Thracian.

You moan about watching a team with no skill which does'nt excite you, which if fair enough. Do you honestly think the inclusion Max Gradel, Levi Porter, Louis Dodds, and Alan Sheehan will change this?

Oh actually one more question, do you think these players are capable of being part of team that can score the magical 70 goals you keep going on about?

I don't think they have no skill. I think all our players have skill, including Sylla, Maybury, Tiatto, you name them. It is effect on the game which some of them lack.

Do you not think we need 70 goals minimum to be successful?

It is perhaps possible with George Graham style defending but recent history says we concede something over a goal and game and therefore need two goals a game to win.

As to the players you mention I've said long ago we need an attacking left-back, whether it be Sheehan or not.

Apart perhaps from Williams (who's been unconvincing) Porter is the only player we have who constantly probes the opposition defence with his passes (as opposed to being safe and simply efficient)

Gradel has an exceptional goalscoring record from the right wing and is forever having a pop at goal but might still be a bit lightweight.

And Dodds is as natural a goalscorer as we've got (according to Kelly) and, Chambers apart, I agree.

All would increase our scoring potential but that doesn't mean I'd play them all at once.

Simply that I'd have complete faith in any one of them and also in O'Grady and Hammond.

[Manwell Pablo]

I don't think they have no skill. I think all our players have skill, including Sylla, Maybury, Tiatto, you name them. It is effect on the game which some of them lack.

Do you not think we need 70 goals minimum to be successful?

It is perhaps possible with George Graham style defending but recent history says we concede something over a goal and game and therefore need two goals a game to win.

As to the players you mention I've said long ago we need an attacking left-back, whether it be Sheehan or not.

Apart perhaps from Williams (who's been unconvincing) Porter is the only player we have who constantly probes the opposition defence with his passes (as opposed to being safe and simply efficient)

Gradel has an exceptional goalscoring record from the right wing and is forever having a pop at goal but might still be a bit lightweight.

And Dodds is as natural a goalscorer as we've got (according to Kelly) and, Chambers apart, I agree.

All would increase our scoring potential but that doesn't mean I'd play them all at once.

Simply that I'd have complete faith in any one of them and also in O'Grady and Hammond.

Im not actually having a pop im a geuninley intrested, for all your preaching I relised I still dont full understand how you want the team set up. I wouldnt set 70 goals as a minimum no if we scored 69 I wouldnt be to upset the way you say it it all seems a bit precise.

I can't honestly agree that Louis Dodds is a better finisher then Matty Fryatt but we shall see.

So slightly altering my orginal question, and we will keep to yes or no answer before you go off on your speal. If we bring all of those players through this season, say all of them get at least 15 - 20+ appearnces each, do you think this team will be top 6 +

[The People's Hero]

I've not seen much of this Louis Dodds but he seems to have been in and around the youngsters/reserves sides for a while and fairly consistently getting on the team sheet...

I know RK seems to think fairly highly of him...

What do we reckon boys and girls?

[Ricey]

The thought of Tiatto and Maybury on either wing is a scary thought, however I'm taking a positive slant on it....

*Clutches straws*

When Maybury played there last season we won games and there was period 2 seasons a go when Tiatto played brilliantly in midfield.

Anybody feel any better?

How about when I point out both players will no doubt serve several suspensions which will give Porter and Low a chance, also Porter and Low can be our secret weapons to be used later on in games.

Better?

[Phube]

I'll just add my 2 pennies worth by slightly agreeing with Thracian on this. A whole season with Maybury and Tiatto on the wings doesn't fill me with confidence at all. Making us hard to beat is not going to work, for whatever reason (over 3 different managers) we have been conceding too many last 10 minute goals, even RK's victories at the end of the season were ALL tight, 1 goal in it affairs. And with two defensive 'wingers' I can see too much pressure being heaped on our back line in the last 15 minutes of a match, even if we're 2 goals up!!

Very worrying indeed. But like I've said elsewhere I'll judge the team in May - whether it's too late then or not we'll all see!!

[Janx]

I'll just add my 2 pennies worth by slightly agreeing with Thracian on this. A whole season with Maybury and Tiatto on the wings doesn't fill me with confidence at all. Making us hard to beat is not going to work, for whatever reason (over 3 different managers) we have been conceding too many last 10 minute goals, even RK's victories at the end of the season were ALL tight, 1 goal in it affairs. And with two defensive 'wingers' I can see too much pressure being heaped on our back line in the last 15 minutes of a match, even if we're 2 goals up!!

Very worrying indeed. But like I've said elsewhere I'll judge the team in May - whether it's too late then or not we'll all see!!

Defensive = Failure... Leveins downfall

[The People's Hero]

Defensive = Failure... Leveins downfall

Too right.

[Graz]

To be fair when Tiatto first got here, everyone loved him for the first couple of months...

You don't HAVE to have attacking wingers to score goals. Maybe RK prefers us to play more through the centre, where Weso, Williams, AJ and Hughes can get forward a bit and play through balls into the strikers to score the goals. More than one way to play football. I'd rather not have Tiatto and Maybury on the wing, but we don't have that many options and just because they are playing, I don't think that means we're doomed before we begin.

And your midfielders don't need to get 10 goals each to get promoted..

Last season our midfield got 16 goals between them (admittedly most of those came from Joey) and our defence should be capable of 10-15 goals between them as well if we've worked on our set pieces. Be optimistic and that's 30 goals between them. The average goals scored to get in the playoffs was 65 last year, although Leeds only scored 57 and Preston 59. So if we only need between 25-35 goals from elsewhere, our strikers should be capable of getting that. Fryatt and Hume should be capable of getting at least 10 each, and our other strikers should get a few each as well as they'll get chances to score, they just need to carry on their pre season forrm.

Be optimistic, and the goals aren't impossible to get. We scored 51 goals last year, and for a lot of the time it seemed like we couldn't score in a brothel, and yet we only scored a few goals less than 2 of the playoff teams.. We don't need that much of an improvement in the goal scoring department really..

[filbertway]

AT least give Kelly till christmas before we decide he's doing it the wrong or right way?

[The People's Hero]

In this division, you have to be strong on both flanks and at the least one in order to open games up. So many teams will try to make the game scrappy and in that case width comes in handy.

I just hope we're not one of those teams full of cloggers who constantly try to make things difficult for others.

[Manwell Pablo]

In this division, you have to be strong on both flanks and at the least one in order to open games up. So many teams will try to make the game scrappy and in that case width comes in handy.

I just hope we're not one of those teams full of cloggers who constantly try to make things difficult for others.

Yes normally becuase you have a lump up front, were as we have to umpalumpers up front. Through balls are the way foward.

[The People's Hero]

Yes normally becuase you have a lump up front, were as we have to umpalumpers up front. Through balls are the way foward.

I agree, but there is a lot to be said for 'getting in behind' down the flanks too. Through balls can also be played from the wings, often with better results than straight through the middle. I don't dispute what you're saying Manwell - we do have to play to our strengths, and you're quite right swinging in high balls from the flanks isn't going to be very effective with Fryatt and Hume up front. Having said that, even though we'll probably be playing a patient passing game with through balls the end result, I don't think this requires having two fairly steady, unadventurous wide players.

I have been known to talk complete shi te though.

[Manwell Pablo]

I agree, but there is a lot to be said for 'getting in behind' down the flanks too. Through balls can also be played from the wings, often with better results than straight through the middle. I don't dispute what you're saying Manwell - we do have to play to our strengths, and you're quite right swinging in high balls from the flanks isn't going to be very effective with Fryatt and Hume up front. Having said that, even though we'll probably be playing a patient passing game with through balls the end result, I don't think this requires having two fairly steady, unadventurous wide players.

I have been known to talk complete shi te though.

Compared to some on here your Alan Hansen.

Indeed through balls can be played from the wing with great affect, and I think if Maybury bucks his ideas up he's up to the task, he's always suppouse to of had good vision, even though it wasn't exactly evident last season. Still I tad unfair to tar Maybury with the fairly steady and unadventurous brush, he can do a job. As said by Mr Kelly we have what we have. Left wing of course if a very differnt kettle of bold Austrlian fish, however discussing it is pointless as we already know our saviour wants him to play 30+ games this season. Hopefully after Mr Kelly relises his team isnt creative enough if/when it happens he will try and sort it out. Hughes AJ and Williams all playing at top form in midfield sounds extremly tasty, bit of a dream mind.

[Fez of Mahrez]

It's not as simple as just chucking attacking youth team players at the problem.

Evidence: RYAN SMITH.

Exciting, pacy, attacking, young, vibrant, enthusiastic, energetic, good dribbler blah blah blah.

Hardly ever made us any goals. We lost all the time with him in the team and we won all the time when he left.

But of course that's not his fault, that's bad management...

[Fez of Mahrez]

Shame Kelly seems dead set on Maybury at RM and Stearman at RB. If we have to handicap ourselves by playing a full-back on the right wing then I would prefer to see Stearman at RM and Kenton at RB.

[The People's Hero]

Compared to some on here your Alan Hansen.

Indeed through balls can be played from the wing with great affect, and I think if Maybury bucks his ideas up he's up to the task, he's always suppouse to of had good vision, even though it wasn't exactly evident last season. Still I tad unfair to tar Maybury with the fairly steady and unadventurous brush, he can do a job. As said by Mr Kelly we have what we have. Left wing of course if a very differnt kettle of bold Austrlian fish, however discussing it is pointless as we already know our saviour wants him to play 30+ games this season. Hopefully after Mr Kelly relises his team isnt creative enough if/when it happens he will try and sort it out. Hughes AJ and Williams all playing at top form in midfield sounds extremly tasty, bit of a dream mind.

As an aside, and I don't want to veer this completely on to being yet another is he good/isn't he good? player thread.. but...

I never saw much of LCFC last season, probably 5 games at the most. Maybe 8 when you consider tv as well.. but I never thought that Maybury looked that bad. He seemed to lose his man a bit when asked to play at left back and he's always likely to drift infield which is a probably we've had with countless full backs (meaning the leave their man completely unmarked)... but.. was he really that bad? He seemed to me to have a decent first touch, decent range of passing, average pace and strength and a fairly good workrate. Sure, he's not likely to set the world alight but then he doesn't strike me as the sort to let you down.

So what has it with him last season which has attracted criticism at times? I'm not arguing for a moment, I'm just interested.

[newms]

As an aside, and I don't want to veer this completely on to being yet another is he good/isn't he good? player thread.. but...

I never saw much of LCFC last season, probably 5 games at the most. Maybe 8 when you consider tv as well.. but I never thought that Maybury looked that bad. He seemed to lose his man a bit when asked to play at left back and he's always likely to drift infield which is a probably we've had with countless full backs (meaning the leave their man completely unmarked)... but.. was he really that bad? He seemed to me to have a decent first touch, decent range of passing, average pace and strength and a fairly good workrate. Sure, he's not likely to set the world alight but then he doesn't strike me as the sort to let you down.

So what has it with him last season which has attracted criticism at times? I'm not arguing for a moment, I'm just interested.

I actually felt that Maybury did well when Kelly moved him to the right wing. Perhaps not the most effective winger but he and Stearman seemed to build a rapport. It is good that Stearman could get forward and know that if the attack breaks down Maybury is defensively aware and can deal with whatever problem arises. When a Sylla or Low is in the team we would lose this luxury.

[Fez of Mahrez]

As an aside, and I don't want to veer this completely on to being yet another is he good/isn't he good? player thread.. but...

I never saw much of LCFC last season, probably 5 games at the most. Maybe 8 when you consider tv as well.. but I never thought that Maybury looked that bad. He seemed to lose his man a bit when asked to play at left back and he's always likely to drift infield which is a probably we've had with countless full backs (meaning the leave their man completely unmarked)... but.. was he really that bad? He seemed to me to have a decent first touch, decent range of passing, average pace and strength and a fairly good workrate. Sure, he's not likely to set the world alight but then he doesn't strike me as the sort to let you down.

So what has it with him last season which has attracted criticism at times? I'm not arguing for a moment, I'm just interested.

The Tiatto/Maybury thing is, in my opinion, mainly because we end up effectively playing with two left-backs and two right-backs. They don't get forward enough and when they do, they aren't very good at doing anything constructive with the ball. That's just from games I've seen anyway.

[Ric Flair]

As far as I can make out Danny Tiatto has scored a total of 8 goals in his career of 199 games in England and just two League goals for Leicester.

Alan Maybury has scored seven times in 215 appearances for various clubs including three for City.

Does that point to us getting a glut of goals from midfield?

Both are capable defenders with spriit aplenty but the two of them in midfield will just blunt our attacks.

I totally agree. It scares me to think of another season with a piss poor midfield. Wesolowski can't run it all on his own and even he isn't known as a goalscoring midfielder.

Why the **** are we going to play 6 defenders? It's horrifying, it really is.

In the past 2 seasons our 6 midfielders (Tiatto, Maybury, Wesolowski, Hughes, Williams, Johnson) have scored a combined 17 goals including cup games for Leicester and any other club they've played for in the past 2 years. So split that down the middle per season equals say 9 goals per season.

Wesolowski and Johnson have hardly played in the past 2 years, so if we allow them both a 3 goal feast each, perhaps that's being kind to Jognson and unkind on Weso but they realistically aren't going to total more than 6 or 7 between them. That's going to be 15 goals from midfield including cup games and me must take in to consideration that not all of them can play at the same time for 90 minutes so that figure could be even less.

That puts awful pressure on our strikers and our amazing set piece scorers to score 40+ goals between them. If you score less than 50 in this division then your in for a long hard battle to stay up.

My honest prediction from the entire squad (league goals) is:

Stearman 3

McCarthy 2

Kisnorbo 2

McCauley 1

Kenton 0

Nisse 1

Gerrbrand 0

Sheehan 0

Maybury 2

Tiatto 2

Johnson 1

Williams 3

Hughes 3

Wesolowski 2

Low 1

Sylla 0

Porter 0

Hamill 0

O'Grady 4

Hammond 3

Fryatt 15

Hume 12

Dodds 0

Grand total: 57

I'm actually surprised at that total and that shouldn't be hard to achieve, would 57 goals be enough to drastically improve on last season? We'd need to be defensively very sound I think and although we have some excellent defenders for this level, we still make some very costly errors at set pieces and from regular bouts of crapness from our goalies.

[Collymore]

Stearman 3

McCarthy 2

Kisnorbo 2

McCauley 1

Kenton 0

Nisse 1

Gerrbrand 0

Sheehan 0

Maybury 2

Tiatto 2

Johnson 1

Williams 3

Hughes 3

Wesolowski 2

Low 1

Sylla 0

Porter 0

Hamill 0

O'Grady 4

Hammond 3

Fryatt 15

Hume 12

Dodds 0

Grand total: 57

Where's your optimism? He is your Official Leicester City player of the Season Sweepstake player

[breaker7]

As an aside, and I don't want to veer this completely on to being yet another is he good/isn't he good? player thread.. but...

I never saw much of LCFC last season, probably 5 games at the most. Maybe 8 when you consider tv as well.. but I never thought that Maybury looked that bad. He seemed to lose his man a bit when asked to play at left back and he's always likely to drift infield which is a probably we've had with countless full backs (meaning the leave their man completely unmarked)... but.. was he really that bad? He seemed to me to have a decent first touch, decent range of passing, average pace and strength and a fairly good workrate. Sure, he's not likely to set the world alight but then he doesn't strike me as the sort to let you down.

So what has it with him last season which has attracted criticism at times? I'm not arguing for a moment, I'm just interested.

I saw City about 10 times last season and obviously all the games on TV. My opinion is Maybury is not very good. Average pace ????????? If its the average of Gerry Taggart, Lee Philpott and Gary Coatsworth maybe !