The People's Hero Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Given the ambition shown and the money spent on players like Ka'abi, Clemence and DJ Campbell, I think that's fair enough. You can't expect to spend £1.6million on a striker in this division and then idly talk about sculling around mid-table quite happily all season. I'll scull as much as I like - and I expect my football team to do the same.
Ric Flair Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 ..it's all starting to change now though, eh?!Bit by bit, more and more people are starting to talk in terms of "going up" as if that's what we've been discussing all along. I give it until September until people are vocalising their disquiet because we aren't leading the division. Perhaps Mandaric and Allen should keep their Steve Beaglehole's out of the media then and stop bleating on about us nailing a top 6 finish this season. The gullible fans that lapped up the £25 million takeover will be the same one's who think we'll piss this league because of Mandaric and Co's media antics. They'll only have themselves to blame, even if it would seem negative not to talk up our chances this season.
Daggers Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Given the ambition shown and the money spent on players like Ka'abi, Clemence and DJ Campbell, I think that's fair enough. You can't expect to spend £1.6million on a striker in this division and then idly talk about sculling around mid-table quite happily all season. We knew he was spending money back in May - he'd always said that he would "spend what it takes" along with getting to the Premiership within three years. We all knew that we were starting from a very low base point - I don't see what has changed, but all of a sudden people are setting themselves up for real disappointment when we don't achieve. The odds may be changing on teams but the bookies still have us at a "thereabouts" placing...in line with what most of us were thinking back in June. Maybe I should get a bet on while you are all so upbeat about our chances but before it feeds through to the odds?
Daggers Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Perhaps Mandaric and Allen should keep their Steve Beaglehole's out of the media then and stop bleating on about us nailing a top 6 finish this season. The gullible fans that lapped up the £25 million takeover will be the same one's who think we'll piss this league because of Mandaric and Co's media antics.They'll only have themselves to blame, even if it would seem negative not to talk up our chances this season. It's the same as the Fowler thing though, isn't it Ric. Mandaric has to be seen to say "Yes we are looking at bringing Fowler to the club" otherwise he gets accused of lacking ambition. The same with this - unless, having spent the cash, he says that we are "looking at a top 6 slot" he'd be knocked. Doesn't mean that he seriously expects us to achieve it anymore than he thought he'd see Fowler accept a lower salary package for the privilege of playing for City.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 We knew he was spending money back in May - he'd always said that he would "spend what it takes" along with getting to the Premiership within three years.We all knew that we were starting from a very low base point - I don't see what has changed, but all of a sudden people are setting themselves up for real disappointment when we don't achieve. The odds may be changing on teams but the bookies still have us at a "thereabouts" placing...in line with what most of us were thinking back in June. Maybe I should get a bet on while you are all so upbeat about our chances but before it feeds through to the odds? There's a bit of a discrepancy here between what you think our aim should be and what you think is a realistic expectation. The aim HAS to be promotion. £££.
Daggers Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 There's a bit of a discrepancy here between what you think our aim should be and what you think is a realistic expectation. The aim HAS to be promotion. £££. No. The aim should be to develop a squad of achieving promotion ad then staying in the top flight in order to consolidate the position. The game isn't over simply by winning promotion. Mandaric's aim is to produce a team capable of selling at the very best price - that is one that, if left to itself, could maintain mid-table in the Prem or better.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 So, "what are people's expectations?" Reasonable ones like yours in my case. I'd like to see us potentially able to make play-off zone, to be knocking around there for part of the season...but no one should expect us to be there come the end. If we are then it'd be a real bonus. Everyone citing Derby as an example just seem to miss the point entirely. Scrambling up to fall down again is a pointless exercise...building in order to achieve promotion and stay up is the aim...and that is only done slowly. Consolidate and grow, consolidate and grow. TV deal = get up ASAP or you'll be left behind.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 No.The aim should be to develop a squad of achieving promotion ad then staying in the top flight in order to consolidate the position. The game isn't over simply by winning promotion. Mandaric's aim is to produce a team capable of selling at the very best price - that is one that, if left to itself, could maintain mid-table in the Prem or better. Yes, and the best way of doing that is to get promoted and be able to splash cash around like nobody's business, not stay down and "consolidate" (i.e. finish 8th, lose your best two players to Premiership clubs, spend another £2-3million on half-decent players and finish 8th again).
Sir Fynwy Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Top 6 should be our aim but we are coming into this season after years of neglect and poor football so it'll probably be too soon for a realistic crack at promotion, you just have to look at some of the other teams in this division that haven't got so far to come up from. Milan is giving the manager the money to start to compete with the better teams but building a team takes more than pitching 12-16 new players in and letting them get on with it. Lets hope we're in contention at christmas, not looking at the foot of the table.
Daggers Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Top 10, isn't unreasonable, is it??? Judging by the online bookies, it would be failing if we didn't...but we don't figure in anyone's top 6. 4's or 5's to one place us just outside.
Flynny Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Would anyone honestly be more pleased if we lost out in the playoffs than if we got promoted? Promotion is the aim of every club in this division, whether they honestly expect that they will be or not. I'd be pleased with 10th or above, Blackpool fans would probably settle for 20th, but everyone wants promotion.
Mort Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Judging by the online bookies, it would be failing if we didn't...but we don't figure in anyone's top 6.4's or 5's to one place us just outside. But did anyone rate Derby's chances this time last year... there was some talk after their new board flashed the cash, Davies became manager and they had a strong pre-season... but not a great deal. That said, top-10 and I'd be content, but I'd like us to consistently be pressing for a play-off space over the course of the season if possible (which i think it should be).
Daggers Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 i.e. finish 8th, lose your best two players to Premiership clubs Well, if staying down is the price we have to pay to get shot of Hughes and Hammond then so be it
Daggers Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Would anyone honestly be more pleased if we lost out in the playoffs than if we got promoted? Promotion is the aim of every club in this division, whether they honestly expect that they will be or not. I'd be pleased with 10th or above, Blackpool fans would probably settle for 20th, but everyone wants promotion. We're coming down to definitions - I am using the term 'aim' to mean "the point intended to be hit" If you are target setting when selling umbrellas to the world you don't set your aim as "Everyone will have one". Sales targets are based on previous performance, current promotions among other things...my point was - we were all taking into account recent performance a month ago when stating what we considered to be an achievable aim. I didn't mention what anyone 'wants' to happen. I 'want' to do Girls Aloud on a waterbed...I aim for a quick one off the wrist from the wife if she's not got a headache.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 We're coming down to definitions - I am using the term 'aim' to mean "the point intended to be hit"If you are target setting when selling umbrellas to the world you don't set your aim as "Everyone will have one". Sales targets are based on previous performance, current promotions among other things...my point was - we were all taking into account recent performance a month ago when stating what we considered to be an achievable aim. I didn't mention what anyone 'wants' to happen. I 'want' to do Girls Aloud on a waterbed...I aim for a quick one off the wrist from the wife if she's not got a headache. You're still wrong. The team that starts against Blackpool will probably contain three players who were partially responsible for the mess last season (in my opinion Stearman, Kisnorbo or McAuley and Hume). You can talk about new players needing time to gel but the bottom line is that the likes of Clemence, Kishishev, N'Gotty, Campbell and Ka'abi should be stamping their authority all over most of the teams in this division. I'll admit I wasn't so sure a couple of weeks ago but the signings of Clemence and Campbell have raised the bar.
City Lad Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 On other forums (other champ teams) they are talking about us being a force... On here there are some who think we will finnish in the bottom half. 6th would be the lowest i would accept. We have spent just under 4 million with 12 new faces. We have to do well.
Daggers Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 You're still wrong. No, you are. And there we have it. Raised the bar? I reckon you've been drinking at it all day.
Webbo Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Yes, and the best way of doing that is to get promoted and be able to splash cash around like nobody's business, not stay down and "consolidate" (i.e. finish 8th, lose your best two players to Premiership clubs, spend another £2-3million on half-decent players and finish 8th again). Absolutely spot on.
Daggers Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 We have spent just under 4 million with 12 new faces. We have to do well. Yea - if this were a football manager world. Human dynamics simply aren't that predictable though are they; after a couple of losing matches we'll see character - we'll see if Allen can inspire them, we'll see if the players can fight for each other. As we are heading into the 80th minute of a losing game we'll see if there is a team resolve to pick the game up by its bootstraps and go on to win the bastard. With more signings and loanees to come the team could take fire or could simply stutter along...emergent properties of entities can not be predicted simply because of the vast number of interactions. Fingers crossed, a spit into the wind and let's all put on our lucky pants - everything will be great.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Yea - if this were a football manager world.Human dynamics simply aren't that predictable though are they; after a couple of losing matches we'll see character - we'll see if Allen can inspire them, we'll see if the players can fight for each other. As we are heading into the 80th minute of a losing game we'll see if there is a team resolve to pick the game up by its bootstraps and go on to win the bastard. With more signings and loanees to come the team could take fire or could simply stutter along...emergent properties of entities can not be predicted simply because of the vast number of interactions. Fingers crossed, a spit into the wind and let's all put on our lucky pants - everything will be great. I love it when people use long words to make their argument look more reliabificulatory.
Nick Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Yea - if this were a football manager world.Human dynamics simply aren't that predictable though are they; after a couple of losing matches we'll see character - we'll see if Allen can inspire them, we'll see if the players can fight for each other. As we are heading into the 80th minute of a losing game we'll see if there is a team resolve to pick the game up by its bootstraps and go on to win the bastard. With more signings and loanees to come the team could take fire or could simply stutter along...emergent properties of entities can not be predicted simply because of the vast number of interactions. Fingers crossed, a spit into the wind and let's all put on our lucky pants - everything will be great. Afternoon, old son. Could you possibly draw me up an algorithm to include all social variables for the coming season, after which we could on-line bet our way into buying the club no matter where we finish? We could then buy a new boat and then everything would be nice. Please post by 9am wednesday (no word limit) Yours in anticipation of ransid wealth, N. For those of you who who are only familiar with emergence theory : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithm
martyn Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Hovering around the playoffs. We now look reasonably strong in most areas and look to have improved our midfield immeasurably, something which will count for a hell of a lot. I really think Matty Fryatt could be a crucial player this year, if he can start firing I don't see why we can't sneak into the playoffs.
Geo V Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 I expect the fans to back the manager and the team from the stands and sing their hearts out, even when things aren't going so well. I also expect the players to fight for the ball and to also want the ball and be there for their team mates with an option for a pass. I hope the younger players like Weso and Mattock come through in a big way and expect us to be fighting for a play-off place although I fear with all these new players and unstable back-room staff situation that we will be lucky to scrape into the top 6 as opposed to being in amongst the leaders from the get-go. From Milan, I hope that he opens the cheque book again in January if we have a chance at the play-offs at this stage and I also pray that he doesn't resort to sacking MA if we only end up in mid-table as this division is a bugger to get out of and is getting more competitive by the season.
Daggers Posted 24 July 2007 Posted 24 July 2007 Yours in anticipation of ransid wealth,N. Only used to working in a team I'm afraid - I've done the flowchart analysis but it's time to hand it on to the next stage. I reckon I've covered most bases
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