Good week for the Manager

[Thracian]

I had actually started a post to agree with you on an earlier post of yours but it crashed. So I can't be bothered to do it again, but i'm going to disagree with you on this.

Our tactics in the first half were nothing to do with containing Blackpool, the reason we were given a going over in the 1st 25 mins was due to having Wesolowski right wing and Newton left wing, giving us no width and losing our shape. Allen realised this and after 52 minutes bought a THIRD striker on at 0-0, from then on we dominated the game and paid the price for disgusting finishing and a touch of quality goal keeping.

You really can't win with you. Last season you called for us to throw on more striker early on, to try and take games to the opposition. Allen does this after 52 minutes and it doesn't pay off as our finishing was poor. But instead of commending him for doing exactly what you craved last season and probably still this season, you pick up on the fact that our tactics were wrong in the first 25 or so mins and that apparently cost us the game, which in reality it didn't. What cost us the game was not taking 1 or 2 of the 15-20 chances we had.

But I do commend him for the extra striker - and everything we tried to do in the second half. I thoroughly enjoyed the game - or at least the hour that we decided to play - and the number of missed chances only emphasised the terrific number we made.

But why not start like that instead of waiting 20-30 minutes before we even try to make an impression?.

I'm sorry Ric but I'm one for pressing opponents from the first whistle not waiting to see how things go. And I'd never be one to play non specialists in strange positions unless there was no alternative.

To me it was nonsensical to have Weso on the wing when he's been our outstanding central midfielder by a distance and while we let our best right winger, Max Gradel, go out to play well for someone else - against Forest and West Brom.

It's equally nonsensical to play a right-winger cum general Mr Average in an unfamiliar left-wing role when we've got Porter, Sheehan, Beswick, Mattock as naturally left footed options - two of whom can cross the ball far better than Newton.

As so often we lost a game because we didn't field our strongest, most balanced side and because we didn't commit ourselves to attacking in numbers from the off. We were easily good enough to have won that match and to have avoided being three points off the pace for no sensible reason whatsoever.

[Benji]

But I do commend him for the extra striker - and everything we tried to do in the second half. I thoroughly enjoyed the game - or at least the hour that we decided to play - and the number of missed chances only emphasised the terrific number we made.

But why not start like that instead of waiting 20-30 minutes before we even try to make an impression?.

I'm sorry Ric but I'm one for pressing opponents from the first whistle not waiting to see how things go. And I'd never be one to play non specialists in strange positions unless there was no alternative.

To me it was nonsensical to have Weso on the wing when he's been our outstanding central midfielder by a distance and while we let our best right winger, Max Gradel, go out to play well for someone else - against Forest and West Brom.

It's equally nonsensical to play a right-winger cum general Mr Average in an unfamiliar left-wing role when we've got Porter, Sheehan, Beswick, Mattock as naturally left footed options - two of whom can cross the ball far better than Newton.

As so often we lost a game because we didn't field our strongest, most balanced side and because we didn't commit ourselves to attacking in numbers from the off. We were easily good enough to have won that match and to have avoided being three points off the pace for no sensible reason whatsoever.

Didn't we ''technically'' lose from a goal that resulted from 3 very poor mistakes one after the other by Mattock?

I have my fishing rod and hook in the water, will the bait be taken?

[Fez of Mahrez]

I don't see why Martin Allen shouldn't play people "out of position" if he considers the alternatives would weaken the rest of the side. It's not as if he's asking Wesolowski or Fryatt to play a Christiano Ronaldo role. People are coming on this forum with their preconceived ideas of what a wide player's role is and then criticising the manager for something he is not doing.

Chelsea played four central midfielders at times last season. Does that make Jose Mourinho an idiot? Was Alex Ferguson a plonker for putting Solskaer on the left "wing" for Manchester Utd for long spells earlier in his career.

Chelsea are the best example of this. Millions upon millions of pounds to spend on players and they end up just buying "the best", squeezing them all into one team and suffering as a result. There's no way players like Ballack and Shevchenko should play as poorly as they did last season. Chelsea were far more effective when they played with wingers for the previous two seasons and won the title both years - and look better already this season reverting to that tactic, in my opinion.

[Manwell Pablo]

Chelsea are the best example of this. Millions upon millions of pounds to spend on players and they end up just buying "the best", squeezing them all into one team and suffering as a result. There's no way players like Ballack and Shevchenko should play as poorly as they did last season. Chelsea were far more effective when they played with wingers for the previous two seasons and won the title both years - and look better already this season reverting to that tactic, in my opinion.

A very good opinion it is too.

[Thracian]

Didn't we ''technically'' lose from a goal that resulted from 3 very poor mistakes one after the other by Mattock?

I have my fishing rod and hook in the water, will the bait be taken?

That's already been acknowledged. And while all and sundry have said he's such a marvellous prospect and pencilled him straight into the first team I've cautioned all summer and before that he's not really ready, is certainly not as effective as Sheehan in attack and should be brought along slowly.

Despite that promptly subbing the kid and signing a new left-back would not have been my reaction. Especially as I'm quite sure that other mistakes for that goal will go all but momentarily forgotten...

Like McAuley's half-hearted challenge somewhere near the touchline where I'd doubt he should have been anyway and N'Gotty's poor control in the penalty box which allowed the chance to arise.

Mattock wasn't the first City player I've seen slip. Indeed so many have slipped, I've even expressed concern about the sense of watering the pitch on matchday.

Even then it shouldn't have cost us a goal because we had plenty of cover and there were all sorts of opportunities to put the matter right. But I've noticed this at City before. Young player makes a mistake and you never hear the last of it - like Sheehan's sending off against Crewe.

Senior player makes a mistake - like Newton's defensive giveaway that cost a goal against Sheffield Wednesday or Kisnorbo's sending off at Coventry - and it's all glossed over.

Fans are so illogical. They scream Mattock for the first team on the basis of very slender evidence then write him out for one mistake. I've watched Mattock stacks of times. He's got ability. But what he needs is gradual experience through coming off the bench and regular reserve games. He's 17. He's an apprentice. He has things to learn.

[Thracian]

I don't see why Martin Allen shouldn't play people "out of position" if he considers the alternatives would weaken the rest of the side. It's not as if he's asking Wesolowski or Fryatt to play a Christiano Ronaldo role. People are coming on this forum with their preconceived ideas of what a wide player's role is and then criticising the manager for something he is not doing.

Chelsea played four central midfielders at times last season. Does that make Jose Mourinho an idiot? Was Alex Ferguson a plonker for putting Solskaer on the left "wing" for Manchester Utd for long spells earlier in his career.

OGS would probably have played well if they'd glued him to a tin box. But taking the example of Fryatt it was plain he was lost on the wing from the evidence of the Cambridge friendly. It was only when Fryatt moved back to his normal striker role that he made an impression.

The preconceived ideas comment hardly stands up. Kisnorbo was useless in midfield. But when moved to centre-half he was much better and this was acknowledged.

However there's is no way anyone would start to rate Wesolowski as a better right winger than Gradel. Given the choice Weso would be my number player on the teamsheet right now.

But because MA wanted Clemence and Kishishev, despite their questionable form, MA "made" a position for Weso having loaned out a specialist who's a scoring sensation in that position and a constant threat.

If you understand that, fine. But I don't.

To me it's a waste and little different to playing Hughes or Maybury on the right wing.

[Nick]

OGS would probably have played well if they'd glued him to a tin box. But taking the example of Fryatt it was plain he was lost on the wing from the evidence of the Cambridge friendly. It was only when Fryatt moved back to his normal striker role that he made an impression.

The preconceived ideas comment hardly stands up. Kisnorbo was useless in midfield. But when moved to centre-half he was much better and this was acknowledged.

However there's is no way anyone would start to rate Wesolowski as a better right winger than Gradel. Given the choice Weso would be my number player on the teamsheet right now.

But because MA wanted Clemence and Kishishev, despite their questionable form, MA "made" a position for Weso having loaned out a specialist who's a scoring sensation in that position and a constant threat.

If you understand that, fine. But I don't.

To me it's a waste and little different to playing Hughes or Maybury on the right wing.

Fair point but lets not get carried away.........

[Benji]

hehe, the temptation was just too much

[MPH]

The Blackpool defeat was damn all to do with players needing time to gell. It was to do with our tactics of setting out to first contain the game. Only later did we attack in numbers and with any conviction. The attacking was far better than last season because MA did put more and more men forward. Indeed the team looked fine together. But the initial approach was one of Kelly-like caution.

We did the opposite at Accington and at least secured the early goal that proved the winner. But why we risked that lead by easing back and focusing just on defending that goal I don't know. Since when have we ever been safe in defence? We're far too vulnerable in lots of ways.

1: it had everything to do with players gelling.

pretty or not, every different style of football and tactics has the ability to be successful if they have the right players to implement them and the players all know each other, know where they are going to run& move ect...

2: it was the first bloody match of the season!!

[MPH]

But I do commend him for the extra striker - and everything we tried to do in the second half. I thoroughly enjoyed the game - or at least the hour that we decided to play - and the number of missed chances only emphasised the terrific number we made.

But why not start like that instead of waiting 20-30 minutes before we even try to make an impression?.

I'm sorry Ric but I'm one for pressing opponents from the first whistle not waiting to see how things go. And I'd never be one to play non specialists in strange positions unless there was no alternative.

To me it was nonsensical to have Weso on the wing when he's been our outstanding central midfielder by a distance and while we let our best right winger, Max Gradel, go out to play well for someone else - against Forest and West Brom.

It's equally nonsensical to play a right-winger cum general Mr Average in an unfamiliar left-wing role when we've got Porter, Sheehan, Beswick, Mattock as naturally left footed options - two of whom can cross the ball far better than Newton.

As so often we lost a game because we didn't field our strongest, most balanced side and because we didn't commit ourselves to attacking in numbers from the off. We were easily good enough to have won that match and to have avoided being three points off the pace for no sensible reason whatsoever.

again, it was the first match of the season.

absolutly rediculous....

[BartonFox]

You make sense but you're still a bellend.

:laugh:

Are you still getting those embarrassing stiffies when you think about men

[Thracian]

again, it was the first match of the season.

absolutly rediculous....

Even more important for the first match. Immediate statement of intent.

[MBK]

According to MA audio on Radio Leicester, he's been to Sheffield and Wolves to watch teams or players. Don't know whether that translates into bids for any of their players which is what I understood it to mean given the journo's question.

MA match preview

MA also states that was unhappy playing right sided players on the left etc.

[BartonFox]

I never realised we could just turn up and dictate what we wanted to do from the get go.

Two teams who have played about twice in recent times would you:

A - come out gung-ho

or

B - try to work each other out in the early stages

[Thracian]

1: it had everything to do with players gelling.

pretty or not, every different style of football and tactics has the ability to be successful if they have the right players to implement them and the players all know each other, know where they are going to run& move ect...

2: it was the first bloody match of the season!!

1) The players have virtually lived together for a month and we created more than 20 chances in an hour or so - how was anyone not gelling?.

2) The first match is worth three points like every other league game.

[THEBIGJOHNSTEADER;]

i just had a foot long

[l444ry]

Chelsea are the best example of this. Millions upon millions of pounds to spend on players and they end up just buying "the best", squeezing them all into one team and suffering as a result. There's no way players like Ballack and Shevchenko should play as poorly as they did last season. Chelsea were far more effective when they played with wingers for the previous two seasons and won the title both years - and look better already this season reverting to that tactic, in my opinion.

I'm not sure it's as black or white as you portray, Fez. In the two seasons when Chelsea won the league, Joe Cole was the most used wide player. He can hadly be called a winger in the old fashioned sense. And when Robben and Duff played in the same side it was virtually with three up front. The year they lost the league had more to do with the form of Manchester Utd. along with the long term losses of vital players than any adopted playing style, in my opinion ....of course.

[Geo V]

Absolutely spot on with this post and for me this sums up everything that has been wrong with this week. People seem to think that if you bring in lots of new players you will get gain instant success but in reality this is rarely the case. It can take time to build a team irregardless of how much money you have spent because sometimes players need to adapt and settle in first. I am sceptical of one or two players but I think we have the basis of a good team. We just need some time to mould them into a more confident unit.

The strange thing for me the majority have gone from us to being an improving side who should finish top half this season and being stronger for next season and the 3 season plan, to out and out almost favourites to piss the league and some of the natives getting upset by a 1-0 defeat in a game we dominated!! I thought many had decided that promotion was a mile off for us and mid-table or a sneaky play-off place may happen in the best scenario but now it seems that in a few weeks we have all decided that we wont be losing any games and we will win the league with 100 points !!

It`ll take time and thats why we don't need to up the pressure on this game tomorrow. I play boycott the boards for a few days to allow the muppets to moan if we do go down at the Palace and hopefully I`ll come back once the doom and gloom merchants have finished. Actually, lets hope we win it so I can stay online to get to 5000 posts

[Thracian]

The strange thing for me the majority have gone from us to being an improving side who should finish top half this season and being stronger for next season and the 3 season plan, to out and out almost favourites to piss the league and some of the natives getting upset by a 1-0 defeat in a game we dominated!! I thought many had decided that promotion was a mile off for us and mid-table or a sneaky play-off place may happen in the best scenario but now it seems that in a few weeks we have all decided that we wont be losing any games and we will win the league with 100 points !!

It`ll take time and thats why we don't need to up the pressure on this game tomorrow. I play boycott the boards for a few days to allow the muppets to moan if we do go down at the Palace and hopefully I`ll come back once the doom and gloom merchants have finished. Actually, lets hope we win it so I can stay online to get to 5000 posts

MM has already moved the goalposts of his 3-year-plan by virtually demanding a top six finish and, psychologically, in doing that, he's put the manager and players under added pressure.

But while I might think that nieve and counter-productive, he might be far more subtle than we know.

And, whatever the case, I feel sure that Mandaric will have little faith in cautious football of any kind in a three-points-for-a-win system.

Just things he says about his vision for the club and his quite evident efforts to get genuine former stars, Fowler and JFH to the club, emphasises beyond doubt what sort of football he wants.

The sort he oversaw at Portsmouth. Fearless adventure from the off. Football with goals.

And I rather fear that if MA doesn't recognise and accept that, then he'll be a very vulnerable man indeed if results are poor. Or even moderate.

MA is a proud and apparently self-confident man. But he won't win against Mandaric. He'll need to understand and embrace MM's dream to succeed here. Row in the same direction.

Cos what we might think of as acceptable progress won't matter one bit to the chairman.

[Head Honcho]

Tomorrow is the real test...Palace have some fire power and if we can at least hold them then I'll be well pleased regardless of our performance..if we don't we could well be bottom come 5 o'clock!

That's what I was thinking.

A similar performance to the Blackpool game, playing well and losing by the odd goal won't be a bad result for us tomorrow, I'd have expected it pre-season and I see no reason to change my mind.

[MBK]

.....

I don't agree, because MA is a winner. MM recognizes that here he has the one of the best managers to come out in recent years. Why should MA and MM agree on the same players. In effect I agree with MA, because using your criteria for judging MA, Fowler has been a failure. No goals.

That's what I was thinking.A similar performance to the Blackpool game, playing well and losing by the odd goal won't be a bad result for us tomorrow, I'd have expected it pre-season and I see no reason to change my mind.

I agree, performance is important. Result not so much.

[Thracian]

I don't agree, because MA is a winner. MM recognizes that here he has the one of the best managers to come out in recent years. Why should MA and MM agree on the same players. In effect I agree with MA, because using your criteria for judging MA, Fowler has been a failure. No goals.I agree, performance is important. Result not so much.

I think you misunderstand my point. I am not saying that MA is wrong about Fowler (or JFH for that matter) because I think both are way past their best.

I am saying the "courting" of Fowler and JFH gave an insight into Milan's mind and the sort of high profile, former star he would like to have here.

Going on from there I said MA will be foolish not to recognise how those players represent the type of football MM wants to see.

[MBK]

...

[BartonFox]

MM has already moved the goalposts of his 3-year-plan by virtually demanding a top six finish and, psychologically, in doing that, he's put the manager and players under added pressure.

No he hasn't, it took Little 3 top 6 finishes before we went up and MM would kill for that just now. He may dish out soundbytes like that but that is for the fans to pin their hopes on.

The 3 year plan is very much a 3 year plan.

[Thracian]

No he hasn't, it took Little 3 top 6 finishes before we went up and MM would kill for that just now. He may dish out soundbytes like that but that is for the fans to pin their hopes on.

The 3 year plan is very much a 3 year plan.

Seems to me if he makes such statements publicly about a top six finish then that message will quickly convey itself to the manager and players. Furthermore his statement was reinforced some days earlier by one of our goalkeeper's who said that MM was definitely focused on promotion this season. It makes sense too I suppose because the task won't get any easier in 2/3 years time.