Zingari Posted 14 February 2008 Posted 14 February 2008 forgotten how good ali g can be " isn't it hypocriticalist that so many nuns work as part time strippers"
Webbo Posted 14 February 2008 Posted 14 February 2008 You either believe in god or you don't. I don't know why you need to read a book about it.
Daggers Posted 14 February 2008 Posted 14 February 2008 I have a Leicester City delusion. I have no evidence to present that it has a, what we like to call, football team - and despite thousands of people all flocking to see them, not one person has seen a performance. Some claim to have seen the miracle of Watford, other lay claim to the miracle of Coventry - but I'm pretty sure that was just hallucinogens in the water supply. We don't walk on so much as submerge under water. Anyone else suffering from this may find solace in the Church of Later-day Saint&Greavsies.
Zingari Posted 14 February 2008 Posted 14 February 2008 You either believe in god or you don't. I don't know why you need to read a book about it. maybe just as religious people read religious books to reinforce their beliefs, then atheists read dawkins etc to reinforce theirs, and to know that if religious indoctrination is forced upon them they are more aware how to deal with it and maybe stop some of the sillier things that happened in the name of religion happening again truly religious people have nothing to fear from it
Webbo Posted 14 February 2008 Posted 14 February 2008 maybe just as religious people read religious books to reinforce their beliefs, then atheists read dawkins etc to reinforce theirs, and to know that if religious indoctrination is forced upon them they are more aware how to deal with it and maybe stop some of the sillier things that happened in the name of religion happening again truly religious people have nothing to fear from it Let me say from the start that I doubt the existence of God but I can't be 100% sure. Religious people need to read religious doctrines to learn how to worship, if you don't believe in anything why do you need to read a book to confirm it? Each to their own, Dawkin's book doesn't offend me, I just can't see the point.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 14 February 2008 Posted 14 February 2008 I have a Leicester City delusion.I have no evidence to present that it has a, what we like to call, football team - and despite thousands of people all flocking to see them, not one person has seen a performance. Some claim to have seen the miracle of Watford, other lay claim to the miracle of Coventry - but I'm pretty sure that was just hallucinogens in the water supply. We don't walk on so much as submerge under water. Anyone else suffering from this may find solace in the Church of Later-day Saint&Greavsies. One of your best posts. Well, better than the postie thread anyway
Manwell Pablo Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 Informer! ok whats the next line..... Thracian man say Louis on loan down Meadow Lane A Licky boom boom down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtILxBszyf8...feature=related Tell me Im wrong.
MPH Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 maybe just as religious people read religious books to reinforce their beliefs, then atheists read dawkins etc to reinforce theirs, and to know that if religious indoctrination is forced upon them they are more aware how to deal with it and maybe stop some of the sillier things that happened in the name of religion happening again truly religious people have nothing to fear from it i think the worrying thing for me is that every now and then you get a program on tv about some odd ball christians who do some pretty weird stuff - there was a program a few weeks back about the ' end of the world cult' and believe me, they were weird and did some wrong things. People use this sort of program to discredit genuine christians and make a mockery of christianity ( Insert any religion here if there is a program about them) Yet there are loads of crazy programs about people who do not believe in God who can do some equally weird things and some pretty evil things too . yet no one says ' oh look how weird and crazy Atheists are- therefore atheists are wrong' You just dont get it. Yet, some people are happy to judge Christians and christianity by the odd program you get on tv.
Zingari Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 i think the worrying thing for me is that every now and then you get a program on tv about some odd ball christians who do some pretty weird stuff - there was a program a few weeks back about the ' end of the world cult' and believe me, they were weird and did some wrong things. People use this sort of program to discredit genuine christians and make a mockery of christianity ( Insert any religion here if there is a program about them)Yet there are loads of crazy programs about people who do not believe in God who can do some equally weird things and some pretty evil things too . yet no one says ' oh look how weird and crazy Atheists are- therefore atheists are wrong' You just dont get it. Yet, some people are happy to judge Christians and christianity by the odd program you get on tv. yes i agree to a certain extent however ,no atheists claim to be doing things that are ordained by a greater power that is not to be questioned atheists may do odd things by flawed logic but that can be challenged by other atheists ( or indeed religious people ) but in some religious societies no deviation from " the word of god " ( however that is arrived at) is allowed.
MPH Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 yes i agree to a certain extent however ,no atheists claim to be doing things that are ordained by a greater power that is not to be questioned atheists may do odd things by flawed logic but that can be challenged by other atheists ( or indeed religious people ) but in some religious societies no deviation from " the word of god " ( however that is arrived at) is allowed. as a christian i would certainly challenge some of the stupid things i see that other christians do- like a program on tv about baby bible bashers.. the end of the world cult.... Both just totally wacky ' christian' programs who give genuine Christians a bad name..
Flynny Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 as a christian i would certainly challenge some of the stupid things i see that other christians do- like a program on tv about baby bible bashers.. the end of the world cult....Both just totally wacky ' christian' programs who give genuine Christians a bad name.. Whats a "genuine" christian, though? There's thousands of denominations all who believe their own thing. And as said, when Atheists do wrong things, it's not because they're atheists. Unless they're bombing churches or something, which would be wrong, obviously. Religious people who do wacky things in the name of religion are entirely different.
MikeyT Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 The only delusion is people not believing in God.Imo. You cant prove God exists and i cant prove he doesnt....end of!
MC Prussian Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 Whats a "genuine" christian, though? There's thousands of denominations all who believe their own thing.And as said, when Atheists do wrong things, it's not because they're atheists. Unless they're bombing churches or something, which would be wrong, obviously. Religious people who do wacky things in the name of religion are entirely different. 'Tis true. When's the last time you've heard an Atheist start an Unholy War? Religions have evolved over hundreds and thousands of years, caused much harm & bloodshed in the process and have established a safe haven for people that either can't or don't want acknowledge their own imperfections, fallibility and mistakes. Religion creates an artificial bubble of belief and manipulates (especially less-educated) masses. I'd say Marx was right, after all. Also, when it comes to Christianity and Islam (and I guess this is a rather provoking statement), Islam is approaching its own Reformation - the killings amongst followers of different sharia interpretations spring to mind.
MPH Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 Whats a "genuine" christian, though? There's thousands of denominations all who believe their own thing.And as said, when Atheists do wrong things, it's not because they're atheists. Unless they're bombing churches or something, which would be wrong, obviously. Religious people who do wacky things in the name of religion are entirely different. some religious people do To me a genuine christian is someone who genuinely believes the bible is the word of God and who follows its teachings. If you pick and choose what you believe that how you can say you are a follower of Christ? -a christian i would disagree with that statement A christian as i will mention in the next point too is someone who follows God - we know who he is by faith and by what the bible tells a starting point for most christians are the ten commandments but i wont go too deeply into it all now. what exactly is an atheist? well basically someone who has rejected god and his commandments for living, therefore they are more or less creating their own ideas for how they should live although often culminating in a collective term of beliefs - rape is wrong, peadophilia is wrong , ect- jsut some basic examples. An atheist has rejected a higher being creator therfore its mans opinions and beliefs that decidce their daily living,
MC Prussian Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 some religious people doTo me a genuine christian is someone who genuinely believes the bible is the word of God and who follows its teachings. If you pick and choose what you believe that how you can say you are a follower of Christ? -a christian i would disagree with that statement A christian as i will mention in the next point too is someone who follows God - we know who he is by faith and by what the bible tells a starting point for most christians are the ten commandments but i wont go too deeply into it all now. what exactly is an atheist? well basically someone who has rejected god and his commandments for living, therefore they are more or less creating their own ideas for how they should live although often culminating in a collective term of beliefs - rape is wrong, peadophilia is wrong , ect- jsut some basic examples. An atheist has rejected a higher being creator therfore its mans opinions and beliefs that decidce their daily living, You use the term "rejection" a lot. I don't think that it applies here. It makes it sound like atheists are carrying a guilt/sin on their shoulders. It's not rejection, it's rather denial based upon individual choice. But then again, we're back to the eternal question of what was first: "God" or "Man"? I'll leave that to you to figure out.
MPH Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 'Tis true.When's the last time you've heard an Atheist start an Unholy War? Religions have evolved over hundreds and thousands of years, caused much harm & bloodshed in the process and have established a safe haven for people that either can't or don't want acknowledge their own imperfections, fallibility and mistakes. Religion creates an artificial bubble of belief and manipulates (especially less-educated) masses. I'd say Marx was right, after all. Also, when it comes to Christianity and Islam (and I guess this is a rather provoking statement), Islam is approaching its own Reformation - the killings amongst followers of different sharia interpretations spring to mind. well this is my point about christianity and what is a genuine christian - someone who follows the word of God- which is desribing the coming, arrivial and future actions of jesus( the bible) in its entirety and not changing or adding to it.. Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
MPH Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 You use the term "rejection" a lot. I don't think that it applies here.It's not rejection, it's rather denial based upon individual choice. But then again, we're back to the eternal question of what was first: "God" or "Man"? I'll leave that to you to figure out. i already know the answer thanks. :-)
Flynny Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 To me a genuine christian is someone who genuinely believes the bible is the word of God and who follows its teachings. If you pick and choose what you believe that how you can say you are a follower of Christ? -a christian. I see. So you don't pick and choose, right? So you're circumcised, don't eat shellfish, and support the death penalty for adultery? Or have you chosen not to bother with Leviticus? It's down to interpretation, you can't say "I'm a christian, other people aren't". i already know the answer thanks.:-) Hah, "know". Thats exactly the problem. You don't "know" shit, you're just sure. There's a world of difference.
MC Prussian Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 well this is my point about christianity and what is a genuine christian - someone who follows the word of God- which is desribing the coming, arrivial and future actions of jesus( the bible) in its entirety and not changing or adding to it..Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. As I say, every religious scripture is subject to individual interpretation. The range and level of belief varies tremendously all over the world. There's no right or wrong, no good or evil. That's a value system established by the writers, teachers and executioners of (insert a religion here). After all, be it consciously or unconsciously, we're all human beings with desires, passions & wishes, looking for someone to understand & love us. Some people get that satisfaction by being a "believer".
MPH Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 As I say, every religious scripture is subject to individual interpretation. The range and level of belief varies tremendously all over the world.There's no right or wrong, no good or evil.That's a value system established by the writers, teachers and executioners of (insert a religion here). After all, be it consciously or unconsciously, we're all human beings with desires, passions & wishes, looking for someone to understand & love us. Some people get that satisfaction by being a "believer". well, thats YOUR belief, of course.
MC Prussian Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 i already know the answer thanks.:-) Don't be afraid, I'm not here to convert you to Atheism, Agnosticism or whatever.
MC Prussian Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 well, thats YOUR belief, of course. Hmm... Yeah, I sense my scepticism's shining through the lines here and there... But coming back to the original idea, I've ordered "The God Delusion" yesterday and am looking forward to an intriguing read.
MPH Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 I see. So you don't pick and choose, right? So you're circumcised, don't eat shellfish, and support the death penalty for adultery? Or have you chosen not to bother with Leviticus?It's down to interpretation, you can't say "I'm a christian, other people aren't". the teaching of circumcision was an Old testamanet teaching that was to show someones dedication and commitment to the law, the coming of Jesus was to show our freedom from the law and circumcision. Gal 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. Gal 5:5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. again with other things you have mentioned they were in the Old testamanet and were designed to help us keep the law, which Jesus by his sacrifice has saved christians from- and as for killing an adulterer Joh 8:4 they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Joh 8:5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?" Joh 8:6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. Joh 8:7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." Joh 8:8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. Joh 8:9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Joh 8:10 Jesus stood up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" Joh 8:11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more."]]
MPH Posted 15 February 2008 Posted 15 February 2008 Hmm... Yeah, I sense my scepticism's shining through the lines here and there...But coming back to the original idea, I've ordered "The God Delusion" yesterday and am looking forward to an intriguing read. if you want, i can send you a christians response to the book free of charge. surely only genuine opinions can be formed by reading both sides of the discussion?
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