Leyton Orient Post Match

[C-man]

I thought yesterday was a great game, both teams committing men forward to try to win the game, a great advert for League One.

[Tilley]

How?

Someone who has played at a high level for most of his career in the Premier League is hardly shit is he?

His pedigree is very good, and he could potentially storm this league as captain.

But he has been simply awful so far this season, he is no captain, he gives the ball away too easily, isn't strong in the tackle whatsoever.

I would love him to do well because I do rate him believe it or not, but on his current form, he deserves to be dropped.

[Anish]

I'm well aware of what comprises an official assist but who's talking official anything because in no way discounts anyone's contribution to any goal and in King's case yesterday he reportedly made the tackle and launched the move for goal one then played an passing part in the move which led to his own goal. If that was not the case I'll happily apologise.

Perhaps you should look to yourself instead of acting so smug about being there. Didn't you give Fryatt a 7 just for his goal? On that basis I wonder why King only got a six. I only wonder of course. I'm not in the least surprised.

Seriously, I am not being smug. You are the one claiming King did X, Y, and Z yet you weren't there. It's absurd. Your so-called stats have so many flaws in them - so now you're trying to say that King assisted his own goal? Ridiculous.

To be honest, it's not worth arguing with you. You have far too much time to post on here and you are never wrong, even if you weren't at the match.

[davieG]

I really enjoyed the game, ok we were poor for spells but it was end to end play a large part of which was played on the deck by both teams.

Two excellent goals from us playing the sort of simple 'on the deck attacking football' I've been dying to see for 4 years.

As poor as we may have been at times there was more football played in the good 40 minutes than was played at any time last season.

As for the fans on the pitch, stupid they may be but at least it was because the were excited and not exasperated.

Went down with my son an met up with my brother and his son, that was my brother's first game since the 70s as he's been abroad since then - I guess going the Leyton in 2008 meant he didn't notice too much change since Filbert St in the 70s

How nice was it to sit/stand and watch a game in the sunshine, not been too many of them lately!

All in all a great day out, some good quality football over all and a bonus 3 points.

[Thracian]

Seriously, I am not being smug. You are the one claiming King did X, Y, and Z yet you weren't there. It's absurd. Your so-called stats have so many flaws in them - so now you're trying to say that King assisted his own goal? Ridiculous.

To be honest, it's not worth arguing with you. You have far too much time to post on here and you are never wrong, even if you weren't at the match.

As I said if King did not start them move for the first goal and play a part in the build up to his own effort then I'm happy to accept that. As for not being there, I can assure you it was not my fault.

[Thracian]

I thought yesterday was a great game, both teams committing men forward to try to win the game, a great advert for League One.

That's how it struck me from the commentary. It sounded like non-stop entertainment with goals, saves, shots bouncing off the woodwork and City scoring three away from home. I felt seriously pissed off to miss it until I read the player ratings then I wondered if I'd listened to the wrong commentary.

[Simi]

Embarrasing performance from centre midfield for the majority of the match. I thought Oakley was a disgrace at times. Never putting his foot on the ball and trying to dominate a game. Captains job and he hasn't took a game by the scruff of the neck at all for me yet. He should be helping to control the tempo of the game and he failed to do that yesterday.

I thought Fryatt and Howard played badly as well, Fryatt saved by his goal.

King was creative but failed in all of his battles in midfield.

All in all, we probably didn't deserve to win, but we got it and that's all that matters.

[davieG]

That's how it struck me from the commentary. It sounded like non-stop entertainment with goals, saves, shots bouncing off the woodwork and City scoring three away from home. I felt seriously pissed off to miss it until I read the player ratings then I wondered if I'd listened to the wrong commentary.

It was non-stop entertainment but neither team performed consistently over 90 minutes it was one side on top for a lengthy period with the other defending desperately and then vice-versa and then the other etc. I thought it was sixes for most because no one really gave a full 90 minutes of quality.

[Fez of Mahrez]

It was non-stop entertainment but neither team performed consistently over 90 minutes it was one side on top for a lengthy period with the other defending desperately and then vice-versa and then the other etc. I thought it was sixes for most because no one really gave a full 90 minutes of quality.

If 90 minutes of quality only merits a 7 I can't wait to see what you have to do to get a 10!!

[davieG]

If 90 minutes of quality only merits a 7 I can't wait to see what you have to do to get a 10!!

I'll rephrase - no one gave more than 45 minutes of quality.

What only 45 minutes why the hell did I give them sixes!

[Flynny]

I'm seriously tempted to go through this thread and delete the majority of Thracian's posts.

King was poor but scored, Thracian. Fryatt was average but scored. Also, on another note, Morisson's more a footballing centre-back than any of our defenders in some time before this summer. The defense was pretty decent, it was the repeated loss of possession in midfield from attacking positions that let Orient counter-attack, often against two-men because our full-backs were committed (yes, even Powell got forward repeatedly and well, I was suprised as you might be seeing it from a 38 year old).

[Thracian]

I'm seriously tempted to go through this thread and delete the majority of Thracian's posts.

King was poor but scored, Thracian. Fryatt was average but scored. Also, on another note, Morisson's more a footballing centre-back than any of our defenders in some time before this summer. The defense was pretty decent, it was the repeated loss of possession in midfield from attacking positions that let Orient counter-attack, often against two-men because our full-backs were committed (yes, even Powell got forward repeatedly and well, I was suprised as you might be seeing it from a 38 year old).

Reading through the player ratings King gets everything from a 7's (several of them) to 4.5. How your description of him as poor relates to those 7's mystifies me.

It doesn't happen with Gradel. Pretty well everyone is agreed he had an indifferent game. So I find it strange.

As for Morrison I'd have to marginally agree that he's more of a footballer than the centre-backs we had pre-summer but you know and I know that doesn't mean a lot.

I didn't get the impression that the centre of our defence was especially watertight yesterday, despite our goals against record, and it seemed that only two quality saves by Martin and some indifferent finishing served to flatter our defensive record.

Indeed it's funny how little reference there's been to our defensive marking whoever gave the ball away (which sounded like a collective problem) .

Where was the marking not only for Orient's goal when someone got a free header into the centre on the far post (again) but also when Tunchev and Powell got into a mix-up and allowed their striker through to a one-on-one with our goalkeeper?

They weren't the only problems either so it sounds as if your views on our 'pretty good' defending are a bit selective whether you wish to delete the point or not.

[Bert]

His pedigree is very good, and he could potentially storm this league as captain.

But he has been simply awful so far this season, he is no captain, he gives the ball away too easily, isn't strong in the tackle whatsoever.

I would love him to do well because I do rate him believe it or not, but on his current form, he deserves to be dropped.

Shut up you idiot.

As a flippant exercise in enveloping the reality in fog that's excellent. But the facts are as stated. And from them I see no logical reason why Wesolowski's inclusion would equal better results. I think hardcase Tiatto completed a whole season in midfield without being on the winning side once. Wondrous return that.

Not that I don't think our central midfield could be improved. It could. But not with another spoiler. We could start by using a second footballing centre-back instead of Morrison and then use another creative midfielder in conjunction with the two we have.

What season would this be? Also, in any case what does this have to do with anything?

[Flynny]

Reading through the player ratings King gets everything from a 7's (several of them) to 4.5. How your description of him as poor relates to those 7's mystifies me.

It doesn't happen with Gradel. Pretty well everyone is agreed he had an indifferent game. So I find it strange.

As for Morrison I'd have to marginally agree that he's more of a footballer than the centre-backs we had pre-summer but you know and I know that doesn't mean a lot.

I didn't get the impression that the centre of our defence was especially watertight yesterday, despite our goals against record, and it seemed that only two quality saves by Martin and some indifferent finishing served to flatter our defensive record.

Indeed it's funny how little reference there's been to our defensive marking whoever gave the ball away (which sounded like a collective problem) .

Where was the marking not only for Orient's goal when someone got a free header into the centre on the far post (again) but also when Tunchev and Powell got into a mix-up and allowed their striker through to a one-on-one with our goalkeeper?

They weren't the only problems either so it sounds as if your views on our 'pretty good' defending are a bit selective whether you wish to delete the point or not.

My description of "poor" doesn't relate to his 4.5's either, but you believe whatever you like, because obviously nothing anyone actually says is going to change your mind. People will/will/do give 7's for so-so games if the player scores.

Again, like I said, they were allowed to counter-attack with 4-5 men on 2-3 defenders multiple times, it's a wonder they didn't score more. We were swamped and rushed at from every angle, which is in fact very encouraging from a footballing point of view. From what I've heard about the radio commentary the one-on-one was massively overplayed and in reality it demanded only a simple block from Martin. It started close to the line of the penalty-area, the guy wasn't dashing through from the halfway line or anything.

With 10 men in the box at corners, the missing marker could have been any outfield player, to attempt to pin that on a sterling defensive effort is laughable.

As for Morrison - before today I would have agreed with you, and he does lump it much too much - but the guy can actually play football when he chooses to, I was pleasently suprised. I don't know if it's from playing in the conference for so long that it's a kind of instinct or what. He booted it long at one point after Howard had left the pitch, as if he'd forgotten. I think that might actually have led up to the 3rd goal somewhat (i.e. very) fortuitously actually, but I'm nowhere near certain.

[Thracian]

Shut up you idiot.

What season would this be? Also, in any case what does this have to do with anything?

It has to do with scuppering the idea that putting a hardcase ball-winner in midfield somehow improves results. If it's someone like Billy Bremner or Roy Keane who could score and create a bit I'd agree with the idea but if the creativity isn't there it's a disaster.

People have mentioned Weso and in some ways it could be argued that our performance against Fulham when he played in midfield with King was our best to date this season even though we lost. Whether others would argue that any match you lose could be our best I don't know.

But considering how it we played it does seem strange that we've never tried that combination again. Because, given licence, Weso can pass and be positive. It's just that he doesn't often show it with the first team.

[Bert]

It has to do with scuppering the idea that putting a hardcase ball-winner in midfield somehow improves results. If it's someone like Billy Bremner or Roy Keane who could score and create a bit I'd agree with the idea but if the creativity isn't there it's a disaster.

People have mentioned Weso and in some ways it could be argued that our performance against Fulham when he played in midfield with King was our best to date this season even though we lost. Whether others would argue that any match you lose could be our best I don't know.

But considering how it we played it does seem strange that we've never tried that combination again. Because, given licence, Weso can pass and be positive. It's just that he doesn't often show it with the first team.

What season did Tiatto win a game all season?

2004-5 - Gillingham away won 2-0.

2005-6 - Bury away won 3-0

2006-7 - Leeds away won 2-1.

[Hullfox]

2006-7 - Leeds away won 2-1.

He played in central midfield that game and was absolute class.

[Maybes]

He played in central midfield that game and was absolute class.

Yep and scored a boomer of a goal!

[colbo68]

That's how it struck me from the commentary. It sounded like non-stop entertainment with goals, saves, shots bouncing off the woodwork and City scoring three away from home. I felt seriously pissed off to miss it until I read the player ratings then I wondered if I'd listened to the wrong commentary.

i refer you back to messages exchanged last week Thrac - Gradel needs dropping for his own good and the good of the team - he was well off the pace again yesterday - we were shouting for a change for some time. the biggest difference came with the substitution of Howard for DJ - the donkey was woeful in the second half and the injection of pace that DJ brought literally changed the game - I think you are right about Gradel- when on form he's a real threat, but I reiterate the need to introduce him gradually

[Tilley]

Shut up you idiot.

If you asked Matt Oakley how he thinks he has performed so far this season, I'm sure he would be disappointed with himself.

He is so much better than he is currently performing and that is why I get so frustrated with him.

[Koke]

A good smash and grab victory, we were poor for large parts but saying that, we scored 3 and could have scored a few more. Fryatt could have had 4 or 5 including twice hitting the bar.

Our problems occured because we gave the Orient midfield far too much space and allowed them to run at the defenders, the defence got no protection at all. Lloyd Dyer was a constant threat, Andy King was dire for large parts, Gradel was poor and Fryatt and Howard were decent at times. Nicky Adams was the difference, we looked so much better when he came on and fair play to DJ who had a hand in the two late goals although he should have scored himself on the line but made a right mess of it.

All the decent teams win when not playing well, and its usually late goals that win them. Excellent 3 points.

Signed and approved.

I agree with all that. Good subs made by Pearson. Adams looked really good when he came on. And fair play to DJ, despite making a complete mess of himself, but Fryatt saved him the blushes.

[Bert]

If you asked Matt Oakley how he thinks he has performed so far this season, I'm sure he would be disappointed with himself.

He is so much better than he is currently performing and that is why I get so frustrated with him.

Ok. That's a fair point. I think everyone knows he can do better though.

But "simply awful" is taking it too far. He's not been great the past two games, which is what your basing him being simply awful" on.

He's had as many good games as he has had bad games.

[lcfc_jme]

Nothing tremendous to add as wasn't at the game unfortunately. I love the new commentator, though. Much better than that old tosspot.

[Daggers]

Didn't they like Howard or something?

[Cobbo]

Howard should be winning these the shit lump.

They were City fans in Orient shirts Dave.