Leyton Orient Post Match

[BigGibbo]

Didn't they like Howard or something?

Who does?

[Maybes]

Who does?

He does a job.

[fox123]

He does a job.

My mrs does a job don't mean shes good

[Maybes]

My mrs does a job don't mean shes good

Contraversial(sp).

Didn't think she was too shabby myself

[fox123]

Contraversial(sp).

Didn't think she was too shabby myself :phe4r:

that must be those long fingers of yours

[Thracian]

i refer you back to messages exchanged last week Thrac - Gradel needs dropping for his own good and the good of the team - he was well off the pace again yesterday - we were shouting for a change for some time. the biggest difference came with the substitution of Howard for DJ - the donkey was woeful in the second half and the injection of pace that DJ brought literally changed the game - I think you are right about Gradel- when on form he's a real threat, but I reiterate the need to introduce him gradually

I have no problem with that on his current form. It is certainly what I would do.

[Thracian]

What season did Tiatto win a game all season?

2004-5 - Gillingham away won 2-0.

2005-6 - Bury away won 3-0

2006-7 - Leeds away won 2-1.

I don't keep records but think it was 2005/6 or 2006-7 that we failed to win a League match that Tiatto started. He was injured for much of the time but was still involved in quite a few matches. I referred to it on several occasions at the time.

[Maybes]

I don't keep records but think it was 2006-7 that we failed to win a League match that Tiatto started.

Wrong. He started and scored in the victory at Elland Road so I believe.

[James.]

As a flippant exercise in enveloping the reality in fog that's excellent. But the facts are as stated. And from them I see no logical reason why Wesolowski's inclusion would equal better results. I think hardcase Tiatto completed a whole season in midfield without being on the winning side once. Wondrous return that.

Not that I don't think our central midfield could be improved. It could. But not with another spoiler. We could start by using a second footballing centre-back instead of Morrison and then use another creative midfielder in conjunction with the two we have.

It was an exercise to show the value of your logic.

1. Andy King did not get any assists on Saturday. I am not biased against him or for him. I want him to do well.

2. Your Tiatto comment is incorrect and irrelevant anyway.

[Thracian]

It was an exercise to show the value of your logic.

1. Andy King did not get any assists on Saturday. I am not biased against him or for him. I want him to do well.

2. Your Tiatto comment is incorrect and irrelevant anyway.

1) You obviously closed your eyes. YouTube didn't show the ball winning tackle and pass which started the first goal (by report) so I shall add nothing about that but King was clearly instrumental in the build up to his own and City's third goal. The technicalities of official assists matter not except for the purposes of quoting them specifically. As assists is exactly what the word means and couldn't have been more in evidence for the third goal.

2) In what way is my comment that Tiatto didn't win a single League game that he started in a particular season wrong? If you explain that I'm mistaken I'll happily accept the correction. You might think it irrelevent but it serves to fuel my belief that hardcase ball winners in midfield don't necessarily equal a successful side.

[The People's Hero]

I've got nothing against King but he was a bit embarrassing on Saturday. I know he scored - but other than that it was 90 minutes of giving the ball away and falling over.

[Thracian]

I've got nothing against King but he was a bit embarrassing on Saturday. I know he scored - but other than that it was 90 minutes of giving the ball away and falling over.

I'm surprised you even acknowledged that he scored. You must be going soft.

[The People's Hero]

I'm surprised you even acknowledged that he scored. You must be going soft.

Not soft, just a fair assessment of a players' performance.

I call it as I see it on a match by match basis.

(Although this was my first competitive match this season).

King must be under instruction to make is easy to justify Clem's selection once he's back.

[James.]

1) You obviously closed your eyes. YouTube didn't show the ball winning tackle and pass which started the first goal (by report) so I shall add nothing about that but King was clearly instrumental in the build up to his own and City's third goal. The technicalities of official assists matter not except for the purposes of quoting them specifically. As assists is exactly what the word means and couldn't have been more in evidence for the third goal.

2) In what way is my comment that Tiatto didn't win a single League game that he started in a particular season wrong? If you explain that I'm mistaken I'll happily accept the correction. You might think it irrelevent but it serves to fuel my belief that hardcase ball winners in midfield don't necessarily equal a successful side.

1. You just carry on using the term "assist" in whatever way you like Thracian, I don't care anymore.

2. Read ALL the posts that have proved you wrong. Although maybe you're the one with your eyes closed. Again.

Boring.

[Flynny]

This is still happening? I don't actually believe this.

[The People's Hero]

This is still happening? I don't actually believe this.

To the safehouse?

[Ric Flair]

Just agree with him.

Andy King is on par with Michael Platini was in his pomp.

I really hope King does well for us, but it's precisely this sort of shit that I read on here that get's peoples backs up when the lad has a shitter of game, which happens every so often.

[danny.]

the ball winning tackle and pass which started the first goal

I'm a bit lost??

First goal was a pass from Gilbert to Dyer, who passed op to Fryatt and ran, Fryatt short pass to Howard, lovely splitting through ball from Howard, cool finish from Dyer.

What did Andy king have to do with that goal at all???

[Corky]

I'm a bit lost??

First goal was a pass from Gilbert to Dyer, who passed op to Fryatt and ran, Fryatt short pass to Howard, lovely splitting through ball from Howard, cool finish from Dyer.

What did Andy king have to do with that goal at all???

He was on the pitch at the time.

[Alexikokopops]

2) In what way is my comment that Tiatto didn't win a single League game that he started in a particular season wrong? If you explain that I'm mistaken I'll happily accept the correction. You might think it irrelevent but it serves to fuel my belief that hardcase ball winners in midfield don't necessarily equal a successful side.

Both Bert and Maybes have mentioned that Tiatto started and scored in the Leeds game in 2006/07. Now you're just ignoring posts!

I'm a bit lost??

First goal was a pass from Gilbert to Dyer, who passed op to Fryatt and ran, Fryatt short pass to Howard, lovely splitting through ball from Howard, cool finish from Dyer.

What did Andy king have to do with that goal at all???

EVERYTHING!

In all honest both King and Oakley were poor after the first half an hour. King managed a goal (but not an assist for the first goal) but it doesn't disguise the fact it was a below par performance for him. I'm a fan of King and would like him to do well but unfortunately that didn't happen on Saturday. You can make up assists for him all you like Thrac but he can (and has) played a lot better than Saturday Can we please leave it now? The people who were at the match don't hate King, they just acknowledge that he, along with the other half of the central midfield, had a poor game despite getting the goal at the end. You weren't there and are going on the radio and individual player ratings that suite you. If you're going to use player ratings than at least wait until the averages. You can't use stats as a ack up for your argument if you're going to take a sample size of one or two. Statistics are non-sensical without a proper sample size. I've studied statistics for four years. I could prove that Zsolt Lackzo should be playing in the Premiership if I took a small enough sample size.

[James.]

You can't use stats as a ack up for your argument if you're going to take a sample size of one or two. Statistics are non-sensical without a proper sample size. I've studied statistics for four years. I could prove that Zsolt Lackzo should be playing in the Premiership if I took a small enough sample size.

I haven't studied statistics for 4 years and I know that. It's bloody obvious. And if he can't or won't recognise that then he's a f**king idiot. There, I said it. Delete this if you please but I'm sick of threads descending into farce. You (not you, Alex) may tell me you can just ignore them but it's not as easy as that. This is a post match thread, not an Andy King thread, it's of interest too many people, regular posters and otherwise and look what's happened. I wish I could just ignore it but I like many others feel the need to respond, particularly as we were actually at the game and also particularly as many of us CAN be relied upon to be neutral and fair unlike some. I'm sick of it. Thracian will probably say that he drums up debate and makes it more entertaining on here. What would we do without him?! Bollocks. It's boring. It's not debate, nothing over the last few pages that he has been involved in has been constructive or informative. No one has a vendetta against King, we all want him to do well. But I'm f**king tired of seeing threads ruined, RUINED, by nonsense and lies. And don't tell me I'm taking all this too seriously. I'm not. I won't lose any sleep. But I value this forum a lot for the people I've met, the lively (constructive) debate, the informative posting and the genuinely skilled writers. Such a shame that this gets overshadowed by the banal arsetalk in threads like this.

[Flynny]

I haven't studied statistics for 4 years and I know that. It's bloody obvious. And if he can't or won't recognise that then he's a f**king idiot. There, I said it. Delete this if you please but I'm sick of threads descending into farce. You (not you, Alex) may tell me you can just ignore them but it's not as easy as that. This is a post match thread, not an Andy King thread, it's of interest too many people, regular posters and otherwise and look what's happened. I wish I could just ignore it but I like many others feel the need to respond, particularly as we were actually at the game and also particularly as many of us CAN be relied upon to be neutral and fair unlike some. I'm sick of it. Thracian will probably say that he drums up debate and makes it more entertaining on here. What would we do without him?! Bollocks. It's boring. It's not debate, nothing over the last few pages that he has been involved in has been constructive or informative. No one has a vendetta against King, we all want him to do well. But I'm f**king tired of seeing threads ruined, RUINED, by nonsense and lies. And don't tell me I'm taking all this too seriously. I'm not. I won't lose any sleep. But I value this forum a lot for the people I've met, the lively (constructive) debate, the informative posting and the genuinely skilled writers. Such a shame that this gets overshadowed by the banal arsetalk in threads like this.

[JakeShingler]

I haven't studied statistics for 4 years and I know that. It's bloody obvious. And if he can't or won't recognise that then he's a f**king idiot. There, I said it. Delete this if you please but I'm sick of threads descending into farce. You (not you, Alex) may tell me you can just ignore them but it's not as easy as that. This is a post match thread, not an Andy King thread, it's of interest too many people, regular posters and otherwise and look what's happened. I wish I could just ignore it but I like many others feel the need to respond, particularly as we were actually at the game and also particularly as many of us CAN be relied upon to be neutral and fair unlike some. I'm sick of it. Thracian will probably say that he drums up debate and makes it more entertaining on here. What would we do without him?! Bollocks. It's boring. It's not debate, nothing over the last few pages that he has been involved in has been constructive or informative. No one has a vendetta against King, we all want him to do well. But I'm f**king tired of seeing threads ruined, RUINED, by nonsense and lies. And don't tell me I'm taking all this too seriously. I'm not. I won't lose any sleep. But I value this forum a lot for the people I've met, the lively (constructive) debate, the informative posting and the genuinely skilled writers. Such a shame that this gets overshadowed by the banal arsetalk in threads like this.

[Bert]

1) You obviously closed your eyes. YouTube didn't show the ball winning tackle and pass which started the first goal (by report) so I shall add nothing about that but King was clearly instrumental in the build up to his own and City's third goal. The technicalities of official assists matter not except for the purposes of quoting them specifically. As assists is exactly what the word means and couldn't have been more in evidence for the third goal.

2) In what way is my comment that Tiatto didn't win a single League game that he started in a particular season wrong? If you explain that I'm mistaken I'll happily accept the correction. You might think it irrelevent but it serves to fuel my belief that hardcase ball winners in midfield don't necessarily equal a successful side.

1) After a poor clearence from a goal kick, JJ Melligan headed the ball up into the air. King was unchallenged and brought the ball down and passed it to Chris Powell. Powell played the ball to Dyer, who turned and knocked it on to Fryatt, who then laid it on to Howard. Howard seen a gap in the defence and played the ball through to Dyer. Dyer went on to score.

This means 4 others players touched the ball after Kings "instrumental part" in the goal. He simply done what any player would do, by controlling the ball and making a safe pass. You can argue your point that he was instrumental as much as you like, but after watching the highlights on world 5 times, I don't see King being as instrumental as you make out.

2) Roy Keane. Patrick Vieira. Michael Essien. Genarro Gattuso. All top European clubs that have been succesful with "hardcase ball winners" Also, before i laid off to you that the games that Tiatto won in, you then changed it to "Tiatto didn't win any games" to "Tiatto didn't win a single league game in which he started"

[Koke]

What's wrong with having a nasty bastard in the middle of the park (provided he's a decent passer of course)? Gennaro Gattuso has made a pretty successful career for himself.