Wish I could steal £16k, get away with it and call it a mistake.

[Fez of Mahrez]

This sudden outcry over an unelected Prime Minister makes me laugh, as does the outcry over MPs expenses. These are not new things.

Plus the small fact that you elect an MP, not a Prime Minister. By putting a party into power, you are giving a mandate for them to rule for up to five years - it's not about the individual in charge. If you are unhappy with that system, then vote Independent. It would be the same if the Tories were in charge, as indeed has happened in the past.

And it's not as simple as saying the majority of people aren't happy and an election must be called immediately due to public demand. How is that measured in the first place? Chicken and egg situation, doesn't work.

[stez]

This sudden outcry over an unelected Prime Minister makes me laugh, as does the outcry over MPs expenses. These are not new things.

Plus the small fact that you elect an MP, not a Prime Minister. By putting a party into power, you are giving a mandate for them to rule for up to five years - it's not about the individual in charge. If you are unhappy with that system, then vote Independent. It would be the same if the Tories were in charge, as indeed has happened in the past.

And it's not as simple as saying the majority of people aren't happy and an election must be called immediately due to public demand. How is that measured in the first place? Chicken and egg situation, doesn't work.

the anger towards MPs has been building up for quite some time though, and the expenses thing is simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

they think they can treat us like idiots, which in the main, the british people are happy to accept, so long as their lot is a happy one, but if you keep pushing and pushing the people will snap, and that has now happened. i know its, apparently a 'world recession' but with people suffering an unstable job situation, less money swilling about, bills going up, a massive tax burden staring us in the face, the last thing we want to hear about is MPs pissing our money up the wall and having a good laugh at us while they do it.

[Guest]

This sudden outcry over an unelected Prime Minister makes me laugh, as does the outcry over MPs expenses. These are not new things.

Plus the small fact that you elect an MP, not a Prime Minister. By putting a party into power, you are giving a mandate for them to rule for up to five years - it's not about the individual in charge. If you are unhappy with that system, then vote Independent. It would be the same if the Tories were in charge, as indeed has happened in the past.

And it's not as simple as saying the majority of people aren't happy and an election must be called immediately due to public demand. How is that measured in the first place? Chicken and egg situation, doesn't work.

Well said. We operate a system of party politics, and should vote based on that, not the individuals themselves.

[Fez of Mahrez]

the anger towards MPs has been building up for quite some time though, and the expenses thing is simply the straw that broke the camel's back.

they think they can treat us like idiots, which in the main, the british people are happy to accept, so long as their lot is a happy one, but if you keep pushing and pushing the people will snap, and that has now happened. i know its, apparently a 'world recession' but with people suffering an unstable job situation, less money swilling about, bills going up, a massive tax burden staring us in the face, the last thing we want to hear about is MPs pissing our money up the wall and having a good laugh at us while they do it.

I'm not disputing any of that, it's just a prime example of lots of people suddenly getting angry about something because the media happen to have time and space to publish more things about it. Next week we'll probably be back to swine flu again. I'm not even sure what it is specifically about media/public opinion that doesn't sit right with me, just all seems a bit Outraged of Tunbridge Wells.

[James.]

And it's not as simple as saying the majority of people aren't happy and an election must be called immediately due to public demand. How is that measured in the first place? Chicken and egg situation, doesn't work.

Why shouldn't an election be called though?

I think the benefits of having one now far outweigh the costs. From an MP's perspective and the general public.

[davieG]

Why shouldn't an election be called though?

I think the benefits of having one now far outweigh the costs. From an MP's perspective and the general public.

It may well be the right thing if it's because the majority, how do we judge that think the Country is messed up but to call it, as some people have said to resolve the expenses issue is complete rubbish as all parties are guilty of it.

What we need first of all is for all those who have broken the law, and there seems to be a fair view to be weeded out first before even think of holding and election

[James.]

It may well be the right thing if it's because the majority, how do we judge that think the Country is messed up but to call it, as some people have said to resolve the expenses issue is complete rubbish as all parties are guilty of it.

What we need first of all is for all those who have broken the law, and there seems to be a fair view to be weeded out first before even think of holding and election

Shouldn't take long to go through expenses and work out who ****ed up. I'm not talking about a general election tomorrow but I'd definitely like to see one this year. And that's not because of expenses or because the media said so, it's because the country has been woefully mismanaged, we are going through unprecedented circumstances and we should have the "best" people in charge, i.e. not Gordon Brown.

The economy is ****ed. We are going to pay a heavy price further down the line for what this government has done. For me an election would hopefully be a means of damage limitation.

[Jon the Hat]

Well said. We operate a system of party politics, and should vote based on that, not the individuals themselves.

I stongly support the party system, however in the case of Gordon Brown, there was no leadershp contest in the Labour party, and his rise to PM was engineereed through manipulation bullying and threat. The type of people Brown surrounds himself with have been exposed by the Smeargate affair.

On another point, Brown elevated himself on the back of his claims of economic stability and the end of boom and bust, both of which have turned out to be completely false.

We need a general election becuase our government are not governing, they are covering their arses and looking at what they can be seen to ebe doing to try and not lose in a landslide next year. Waste of time.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Why shouldn't an election be called though?

I think the benefits of having one now far outweigh the costs. From an MP's perspective and the general public.

Shouldn't take long to go through expenses and work out who ****ed up. I'm not talking about a general election tomorrow but I'd definitely like to see one this year. And that's not because of expenses or because the media said so, it's because the country has been woefully mismanaged, we are going through unprecedented circumstances and we should have the "best" people in charge, i.e. not Gordon Brown.

The economy is ****ed. We are going to pay a heavy price further down the line for what this government has done. For me an election would hopefully be a means of damage limitation.

But there can't be an election called just because you (and obviously a lot of other people) think there should be one. What would the actual reason be - and who is deciding? And what sort of precedent are you setting? A few months into the next government, there's a major scandal (hardly a huge leap of the imagination) - what do we do then? Call another election?

[davieG]

Shouldn't take long to go through expenses and work out who ****ed up. I'm not talking about a general election tomorrow but I'd definitely like to see one this year. And that's not because of expenses or because the media said so, it's because the country has been woefully mismanaged, we are going through unprecedented circumstances and we should have the "best" people in charge, i.e. not Gordon Brown.

The economy is ****ed. We are going to pay a heavy price further down the line for what this government has done. For me an election would hopefully be a means of damage limitation.

The problem is your assuming that whoever comes in will better unfortunately that's not guaranteed. That's not a vote for Brown just the reality of the situation, I know people will say could they be any worse, well they can.

I doubt I'd ever vote for a specific party again if there's an Independent standing who has similar beliefs to me I'd give them my cross otherwise no thanks, no vote.

[James.]

But there can't be an election called just because you (and obviously a lot of other people) think there should be one. What would the actual reason be - and who is deciding? And what sort of precedent are you setting? A few months into the next government, there's a major scandal (hardly a huge leap of the imagination) - what do we do then? Call another election?

Like I said I'm not asking for an election cause some bored husband expensed a couple of porno's I'm talking about a massive, unprecedented failure by this government in economic management. This isn't a normal time you know and I'm not scaremongering or saying shit because I read the Daily Mail this morning and crapped my pants, this is the truth. We are all ****ed. The sooner SOMETHING is done, the better.

The problem is your assuming that whoever comes in will better unfortunately that's not guaranteed.

Yeah but at least give we would have the option.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Has anyone actually tried to steal £16000? It might be easier to get away with than you think

[Monk]

I do agree that a certain amount of restructuring needs to be done at Westminster before an election is held. What is crucial with the next election, whenever it will be, is that the public TRUST whoever is in power and that they believe that they will get value for money.

Fez - I see your point, and I agree this is party politics not one man running the show (or one man shovelling the shit, depending on how you view it).

I guess I want an election because I want the current government out as soon as possible. I believe that they are ruining this country and they will never face up to that. I recognise that is not a reason to demand an election, as in any democracy there will always be a % who are not on the side of the leader. Clearly many people feel this way and they use the expenses row, broken manifesto promises and unelected leader arguments to try to justify this. People are seriously pissed off.

However if this was a plc and Gordon was the chairman, I think he would at least be facing a vote of no confidence now, if not a full debagging and being thrown out on the street naked.

The party is in disarray and that is simply no way to run a country as big as ours.

[Guest]

I stongly support the party system, however in the case of Gordon Brown, there was no leadershp contest in the Labour party, and his rise to PM was engineereed through manipulation bullying and threat. The type of people Brown surrounds himself with have been exposed by the Smeargate affair.

On another point, Brown elevated himself on the back of his claims of economic stability and the end of boom and bust, both of which have turned out to be completely false.

We need a general election becuase our government are not governing, they are covering their arses and looking at what they can be seen to ebe doing to try and not lose in a landslide next year. Waste of time.

I don't recall there being much of a challenge at the time.

Hindsight is always a great eye-opener.

[breadandcheese]

To be honest, our whole way of parliament needs an overhaul. We seem to think that our democratic system is best because we invented parliamentary democracy. In fact, I think our system is pretty poor and creates an almost elected dictatorship. Parliament is so weak these days that it might as well be non-existant anyway.

We have a situation where complex legislation gets merely a few hours to debate or amend anything before being voted upon.

We have whips forcing government legislation through regardless, an example being the 42 day detention bill, where the vote became about saving Gordon Brown's authority, rather than the rights and wrongs of the bill. Luckily, the Lords threw it back to the House of Commons.

We have a financial crisis where the government can shell out billions, increase our public debt, with little or no discussion, merely the signing of a pen. This compared to the US system where their funding programme was debated heavily by the senate, thrown-out, re-designed, then approved.

If the expenses system is being reformed, so should parliament as the current system in my eyes isolates those free-thinking MPs, and creates a weak system.

[davieG]

I do agree that a certain amount of restructuring needs to be done at Westminster before an election is held. What is crucial with the next election, whenever it will be, is that the public TRUST whoever is in power and that they believe that they will get value for money.

Fez - I see your point, and I agree this is party politics not one man running the show (or one man shovelling the shit, depending on how you view it).

I guess I want an election because I want the current government out as soon as possible. I believe that they are ruining this country and they will never face up to that. I recognise that is not a reason to demand an election, as in any democracy there will always be a % who are not on the side of the leader. Clearly many people feel this way and they use the expenses row, broken manifesto promises and unelected leader arguments to try to justify this. People are seriously pissed off.

However if this was a plc and Gordon was the chairman, I think he would at least be facing a vote of no confidence now, if not a full debagging and being thrown out on the street naked.

The party is in disarray and that is simply no way to run a country as big as ours.

I've not seen many failed Executives in that state, usually they have a golden handshake and a cast iron heavily endowed pension.. Just like Brown will have then!

[Jon the Hat]

To be honest, our whole way of parliament needs an overhaul. We seem to think that our democratic system is best because we invented parliamentary democracy. In fact, I think our system is pretty poor and creates an almost elected dictatorship. Parliament is so weak these days that it might as well be non-existant anyway.

We have a situation where complex legislation gets merely a few hours to debate or amend anything before being voted upon.

We have whips forcing government legislation through regardless, an example being the 42 day detention bill, where the vote became about saving Gordon Brown's authority, rather than the rights and wrongs of the bill. Luckily, the Lords threw it back to the House of Commons.

We have a financial crisis where the government can shell out billions, increase our public debt, with little or no discussion, merely the signing of a pen. This compared to the US system where their funding programme was debated heavily by the senate, thrown-out, re-designed, then approved.

If the expenses system is being reformed, so should parliament as the current system in my eyes isolates those free-thinking MPs, and creates a weak system.

We certainly have too much power in the executive, and too many non elected advisers in Downing street.

[davieG]

To be honest, our whole way of parliament needs an overhaul. We seem to think that our democratic system is best because we invented parliamentary democracy. In fact, I think our system is pretty poor and creates an almost elected dictatorship. Parliament is so weak these days that it might as well be non-existant anyway.

We have a situation where complex legislation gets merely a few hours to debate or amend anything before being voted upon.

We have whips forcing government legislation through regardless, an example being the 42 day detention bill, where the vote became about saving Gordon Brown's authority, rather than the rights and wrongs of the bill. Luckily, the Lords threw it back to the House of Commons.

We have a financial crisis where the government can shell out billions, increase our public debt, with little or no discussion, merely the signing of a pen. This compared to the US system where their funding programme was debated heavily by the senate, thrown-out, re-designed, then approved.

If the expenses system is being reformed, so should parliament as the current system in my eyes isolates those free-thinking MPs, and creates a weak system.

This is why I have no faith in Party Politics as it just perpetuates the present system. I shall not be voting unless there's an Independent.

[Jon the Hat]

This is why I have no faith in Party Politics as it just perpetuates the present system. I shall not be voting unless there's an Independent.

But with the party system you at least elect something with a leadership strucutre. If they were all independents then how would we get an executive out of it? You need an executive to drive the process or you just have a talking shop.

[davieG]

But with the party system you at least elect something with a leadership strucutre. If they were all independents then how would we get an executive out of it? You need an executive to drive the process or you just have a talking shop.

The elected members could vote for an executive being one option

Unfortunately the public are apt to vote for personality rather than ability with the present party leadership system.

Either way I'm sufficiently disillusioned with the present system to want some major restructuring and re focusing, I'd like MPs to state what they personally stand for and vote accordingly not just for some arbitrary party political agenda or to keep a party in power.

[Webbo]

Well said. We operate a system of party politics, and should vote based on that, not the individuals themselves.

Actually, at least in theory, we do vote for the individuals. That's why an MP can cross the floor and join another party without holding a by election.

As for voting in a coalition of independents it would never work.With no party discipline individuals would leave the government every time a contentious issue came up. It would be too unstable.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Like I said I'm not asking for an election cause some bored husband expensed a couple of porno's I'm talking about a massive, unprecedented failure by this government in economic management. This isn't a normal time you know and I'm not scaremongering or saying shit because I read the Daily Mail this morning and crapped my pants, this is the truth. We are all ****ed. The sooner SOMETHING is done, the better.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Those Nazis could make the trams run on time

[Guest]

Actually, at least in theory, we do vote for the individuals. That's why an MP can cross the floor and join another party without holding a by election.

It's very difficult to vote for an individual around our way, as all candidates follow the party line.

[l444ry]

New talent show "Britain's got Expenses"

The soon-to-retire Speaker of the House of Commons has been hired by Bid Up TV to present a new talent show on television.

"Britain's Got Expenses" will very much follow the format of existing talent shows by holding heats throughout the country in Town Halls, Westminster and branches of the Royal Bank of Scotland.

The eventual finalists will be expected to present items they have charged for in relation to their working week that actually bear no relation to their job.

Although the comment has already been made that MP's and banking chief executives have an unfair advantage, it is acknowledged that the ordinary working man and woman in the street won't stand a chance at getting past the audition stage.

Ima Scrounger, MP for Duckhouse-on-the-Mold expressed confidence in being amongst the finalsts. She said she felt that her £19,500 expense for a designer TV stand - well it was designed by her husband from IKEA off-cuts that were left over from their new Splurginsop Sofa - would be hard to beat.

Meanwhile, Reginald Mean, leader of the Barkinmad County Council in Shropshire felt he stood a good chance. He explained that 14 members of his council have just returned from Gorblimee in Bulgaria having been on a council tax payer-funded trip costing £34,000 to investigate grass-growing techniques in hillside graveyards.

"What makes this a sure-fire winner is that we have no hills in Gorblimee." he added, presenting the interviewer with a bill for £92.